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All-In [40875]
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All-In [34536]
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Fascist POS...just call it like it is***
Nov 27, 2020, 7:36 PM
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All-In [34100]
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Actually not okay, just decriminalized.
Nov 27, 2020, 7:43 PM
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You still get fined and have to go to rehab.
Even though drugs only harm the user, as opposed to failing to social distance which continues to kill thousands upon thousands of people.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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I'm assuming you are intentionally leaving...
Nov 27, 2020, 7:48 PM
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out drug users with children or those with parents or those with brothers and sisters in the drug users tha only hurt themselves.
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Heisman Winner [111433]
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Re: I'm assuming you are intentionally leaving...
Nov 27, 2020, 8:18 PM
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well obviously throwing the drug addicted parent into Jail and separating the children into Foster Care is the best way to go huh? Any civilised culture would see this as a public health issue and not a criminal one. But we are stupid like that.
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Hall of Famer [24457]
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Health issues shouldn't be criminalized? Why then should
Nov 27, 2020, 8:38 PM
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people making their own decisions about covid be criminalized? Is antifa rioting in the streets, which she stood by and watched, a protected health decision?
I'm with you on decriminalizing drug use. We're on the same page there. But calling Trump a fascist, then supporting a dem governor who wants to criminalize a family thanksgiving dinner, and calling on citizens to turn each other in, takes some bias motivated mental gymnastics. Talk about fascist, there it is and you're defending it.
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Heisman Winner [111433]
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Re: Health issues shouldn't be criminalized? Why then should
Nov 27, 2020, 8:41 PM
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when it comes to COVID, your rights end where mine begin. It is the same reason we are not allowed to smoke in public places. And we have more than proven we are incapable of using common sense when it comes to this vorus. We had all summer to prove that we could behave like responsible adults during a pandemic and follow best medical advice, but we didn't.
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Hall of Famer [24457]
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My family gathering was okay with you. Good to hear.
Nov 27, 2020, 8:46 PM
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You weren't there (we would have been glad to have you). Did you call the police on me, or would you?
And the riots were a heath issue, I suppose.
But, but, somebody could give it to somebody who would give it to you. Careful with that line of thought,
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Heisman Winner [111433]
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Re: My family gathering was okay with you. Good to hear.
Nov 27, 2020, 8:51 PM
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glad you did, and of course not.
I don't like the law either, but there is legit concerns that people traveling and congregating over the Holidays could cause a surge that will overwhelm our hospitals, i hope that does not happen. But that is the reasoning here.
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Hall of Famer [24457]
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Fair enough, and I understand the reasons for asking people
Nov 27, 2020, 9:09 PM
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to not do that. My family actually didn't congregate. No one outside of immediate families were together, for the very reasons you said. However, the line of thought that says it should therefore be illegal is not reasoning (not saying you are not reasoning, but that the fascist governor is not).
Reasoning has brought us to an understanding that a crime requires either intent or criminal neglect. 7 people in one place is not that. The arresting officer wouldn't know what distancing or testing-and-tracing had occurred or not occurred. Perhaps efforts were being made to prevent the spread, much more so than takes place at a Home Depot or in an airplane. Only a trial can show that, and to circumvent that by declaring the gathering to be per se illegal is not reasoning, but is the type of action fascists use to take control of a population.
As to the spreading of a virus, it is very difficult to get a conviction for having sex while having AIDS. One has to prove (1) knowledge of having the disease (not merely the possibility), malicious intent, and ignorance by the recipient. It is not illegal to have sex while having aids. No one would thing of making it per se illegal. So now make it illegal to have dinner is pure fascism.
Gov Gavin would have to go to jail had the event been in Oregon. Really?
Edit: I did hear you when you said you didn't like the law. Just talking here.
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Heisman Winner [111433]
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Re: Fair enough, and I understand the reasons for asking people
Nov 27, 2020, 9:32 PM
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Of course not, and i have no Love or any interest in Gavin Newsom or California Politics. If he went to jail I would LOL. I am more worried about keeping our company glued together and weathering the storm.
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All-TigerNet [13027]
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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All-In [42026]
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We really need a workshop here on fascism
Nov 28, 2020, 1:08 PM
[ in reply to Health issues shouldn't be criminalized? Why then should ] |
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And teach people what it actually is.
No, this governor's actions aren't fascist by definition. Are they wrong? Yes. Fascist? No. You don't get to holler "fascism!" every time someone makes a decision you don't like.
Trump is a fascist because he fits the political definition of it with his ideology.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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how did we take this turn...
Nov 27, 2020, 9:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: I'm assuming you are intentionally leaving... ] |
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I'm not giving any answers. I haven't mentioned jail. But this is why I am not a libertarian. Unfortunately, unless you are a hobo living in the woods, your actions affect others - drug and alcohol abuse, chronic gambling, etc.
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Heisman Winner [111433]
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Re: how did we take this turn...
Nov 27, 2020, 9:47 PM
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you are saying it harms families, I am saying it harms them even more when you take the parent away and lock them in jail, instead of just treating the addiction. It costs us far less money in the long run and does less damage to the family.
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CU Medallion [59982]
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you need to spend some time on the streets
Nov 27, 2020, 10:13 PM
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of Vancouver and Milwaukee.
They both are prime examples of how lax drug laws effects their cities. Downtown Vancouver should be the most beautiful place on the Western Hemisphere. It’s just slammed with junkies sleeping on streets, shooting up outside clean needle facilities. It’s bad.
You obviously don’t travel that often. Stay in your hole.
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Heisman Winner [111433]
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I travel all over the country
Nov 27, 2020, 10:30 PM
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taking drone photography. I just got back from the Nevada Desert you dolt.. I also lived in Santa Monica for 8 years when I worked in the film industry, I saw it first hand and up close. Nothing beats taking the trash out and seeing a bum taking a dump in your ally.
But the idea is that you treat the person instead of locking them up. Othrwise it becomes a revolving door that costs the tax payer more in the long run, and also raises our insurance rates due to theft to support their habits.
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CU Medallion [59982]
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That’s so cute. You fly RC Planes
Nov 27, 2020, 10:36 PM
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For B rated movies. Tell me more. Please tell me more.
Dolt
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Heisman Winner [111433]
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Re: That’s so cute. You fly RC Planes
Nov 27, 2020, 10:41 PM
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I never worked on any B rated movies, and I was out in the desert scanning the side of a mountain for a potential gold mine.
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CU Medallion [59982]
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Look at me! I have to justify my autism and nerd tendencies
Nov 27, 2020, 10:48 PM
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by claiming its a job!! Yay!
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Heisman Winner [111433]
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Re: Look at me! I have to justify my autism and nerd tendencies
Nov 27, 2020, 11:11 PM
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autism, no. Nerd, definitely.
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CU Guru [1878]
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It's what Jesus would do
Nov 28, 2020, 12:20 PM
[ in reply to I travel all over the country ] |
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Which is exactly why Trump supporters don't want to do it.
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All-In [42026]
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All-In [42026]
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Re: how did we take this turn...
Nov 28, 2020, 1:10 PM
[ in reply to how did we take this turn... ] |
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Those are people's personal choices, and we shouldn't blame things for people's actions. It's the same reason we don't ban guns for people doing bad #### with guns. We ban the action. There are laws against actions a person may commit while on drugs. Banning the substance itself doesn't work.
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CU Guru [1878]
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All-In [34100]
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I didn't leave out anything.
Nov 27, 2020, 10:49 PM
[ in reply to I'm assuming you are intentionally leaving... ] |
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If the drug user harms someone else, there are separate laws against that. As opposed to having Covid and spreading it to bunches of other people, which is direct harm and should have laws protecting against it.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: I'm assuming you are intentionally leaving...
Nov 28, 2020, 11:42 AM
[ in reply to I'm assuming you are intentionally leaving... ] |
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Yes, they hurt others feeling, but they don't kill them. I think that's the difference. I would never call the cops though on the crowds unless they were too noisy late at night.
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All-In [42026]
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Re: I'm assuming you are intentionally leaving...
Nov 28, 2020, 12:57 PM
[ in reply to I'm assuming you are intentionally leaving... ] |
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Drug addiction is an illness and should be treated as such. Not criminalization.
Current drug laws do not work and do not deter usage. They only serve to crowd our prison and make the cartels wealthier.
Decriminalize them. Put the cartels out of business. Treat addiction as a medical issue.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: I'm assuming you are intentionally leaving...
Nov 28, 2020, 1:03 PM
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I agree with most of that, but decriminalizing it won't put the cartels out of business. They would be just fine. People will still buy their drugs.
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All-In [42026]
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Re: I'm assuming you are intentionally leaving...
Nov 28, 2020, 1:13 PM
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Not if a legal outlet is provided for purchase of narcotics.
People scoff at that, but we do it with alcohol and there's no cartel producing that. And the actual pharmaceutical business is so rife with pushing legal addictive drugs, that's not much different.
We let people sell legal pills that can be just as harmful. But you know, weed is evil or something.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: I'm assuming you are intentionally leaving...
Nov 28, 2020, 1:21 PM
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Legal outlets provide legal weed in California, but the black market has never been hotter. Legalizing it and showing ID/paying more for the legal stuff doesn't work. The cartels still thrive. The cartels will never miss a beat. It really comes down to knowing that we can't stop people from using drugs and so there is no reason to jail people, unless they are breaking other laws. It's that simple.
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-TigerNet [13027]
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Re: Drugs only harm the user?
Nov 27, 2020, 8:49 PM
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Come on. Druggies never steal from others, they only hurt themselves.
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All-In [34100]
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So I'm the libertarian in this thread I guess.
Nov 27, 2020, 10:53 PM
[ in reply to Drugs only harm the user? ] |
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There are laws against being attacked, regardless of whether the person uses "I was on drugs" (or for that matter "I was drunk") as an excuse.
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All-In [42026]
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Oculus Spirit [97677]
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All-In [40875]
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Spooneye rats out his neighbors to the police for too many
Nov 28, 2020, 6:59 AM
[ in reply to Actually not okay, just decriminalized. ] |
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people at Thanksgiving while doing drugs in front of their kids and thinks both of those things are okay to do, but of course too many at thanksgiving is more dangerous to society than drug addicts shooting dope in the streets.
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All-In [34100]
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Re: Spooneye rats out his neighbors to the police for too many
Nov 28, 2020, 8:21 AM
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Would you stop lurking outside my house? Come on inside and do some drugs!
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Re: Smoking crack and shooting up herion is okay in Oregon
Nov 27, 2020, 7:45 PM
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she probably can't make a sandwich either.
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Lot o points [180915]
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Kale wrapped***
Nov 27, 2020, 7:46 PM
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Drugs destroy families
Nov 27, 2020, 9:18 PM
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Not just the user!!! Yes, I’m including alcohol.
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Oculus Spirit [93618]
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I'm ok with legalizing all drugs.
Nov 28, 2020, 1:28 AM
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Imo, it would cull the herd and end drug trafficking and I could legally buy a bag of pot which treats high blood pressure.
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All-In [40875]
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I'm not against decriminalizing drugs. I'm against
Nov 28, 2020, 1:34 AM
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calling the police on your neighbor if they have 7 people at their house and the government suggesting that the police should follow up and investigate the crime.
What is really sad is that some people condone this behavior. They are scared, I get it. Funny that they don't have a problem when there are 7 protestors or rioters together, which happens every day in Oregon
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Legend [15492]
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The blatant irony is that
Nov 28, 2020, 11:27 AM
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the Billionaire Sackler family made $Billions more by shipping millions and millions of doses of Oxycontin and other opiods to rural America thru their company Perdue Pharma. They created the worse addiction wave in our country's history. Record overdoses, incarcerations and deaths.
But they aren't going to jail for it. They created addicts and profited from their addictions, nevermind the mayhem they caused. But hey, at least they're been shunned by NYC high society over misleading the medical community over the dangers of Oxycontin.
But yeah, lock up the addict, they're the guilty ones.
Some Americans are really stupid about the addiction issue.
"The Sackler family is being shunned by high society over their alleged role in the opioid crisis.
The powerful pharmaceutical family owns Purdue Pharma, which makes the addictive narcotic OxyContin.
The company, its executives and members of the Sackler family are now accused of deceiving patients and doctors about the risks of opioids and pushing prescribers to keep patients on the drug longer."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7020693/Sackler-family-shunned-NYC-society-controversy-surrounding-OxyContin-fortune.html
"Newly public documents paint a detailed and often damning portrait of the role played by members of the Sackler family, owners of Purdue Pharma, during years when the privately owned drug company launched criminal schemes designed to "turbocharge" sales of Oxycontin and other highly addictive opioid medications.
In court filings this week, Purdue Pharma admitted extensive criminal wrongdoing as part of a settlement with the Justice Department, including a decade-long conspiracy to deceive the Drug Enforcement Administration that continued until 2017."
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/527544-house-oversight-panel-ask-purdues-sackler-family-to-testify-over-opioid
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Oculus Spirit [93618]
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Re: The blatant irony is that
Nov 28, 2020, 1:50 PM
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Suing these people isn't enough, they should spend life in prison. Law isn't just about punishment, it's also supposed to be a deterrent. That's why they hanged horse thieves in the town square and everybody came out to watch the event.
"Mark, that's what happens to you if you steal a horse, son." Lucas McCain
Maybe that's why the kid cried all the time.
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All-In [42026]
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Re: Smoking crack and shooting up herion is okay in Oregon
Nov 28, 2020, 1:21 PM
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Okay, so the governor is ridiculous. Let's just go ahead and agree on that.
But back to the drug points, there are a lot of people in this thread who aren't realizing their crossing the hypocrisy streams when it comes to personal choice.
These folks will argue you can't restrict guns because you should punish the person and the crime, not ban the object. And that if you ban guns, only criminals will acquire them.
And of course, I agree with that.
But that same philosophy applies with drugs. I don't even have to provide evidence. Our own nation is overrun with drug use despite laws against their possession and consumption. That illegality increases crime in our nation. You all know this.
It doesn't work. People who want to break the law will find a way to do so to acquire what they want, just as a criminal will find a way to get a gun if you ban those.
Let's not sit here and pretend our drug laws are a deterrents. Let's look at Portugal and other nations that treat drug addiction as a medical issue and try to fix it there.
Don't blame objects or things for people's actions.
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