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Replies: 72
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Immigration Southern Border
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Oct 6, 2023, 10:19 AM
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Some say the wall isn't a solution or helpful. What are some other ideas that would stop the prob?
I was thinking no government assistance. Any other ideas?
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All-In [26514]
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Don't have the President say
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Oct 6, 2023, 10:30 AM
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"Ya'll should overrun the border"
and don't try to say he didn't ... I have the link ready to go.
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: Don't have the President say
Oct 6, 2023, 10:32 AM
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What are the real solution now though?
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All-In [39020]
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Stop voting for politicians with an open border policy.
Oct 8, 2023, 10:06 PM
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But it's too late now.
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All-In [42197]
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Legend [19933]
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Re: I'd like to see this PA Yankee say "y'all".***
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Oct 6, 2023, 6:18 PM
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'back in chains'
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All-TigerNet [13155]
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Deportation of everyone that enters illegally,
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Oct 6, 2023, 10:36 AM
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for those that enter legally: no anchor babies, no public assistance (free ###), no additional family members.
Also, the only people that can claim asylum are Mexicans, Canadians and Cubans. Per international law, you cannot cross 5 other countries and claim "asylum"; this is where the Biden admin is a joke on immigration.
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Legend [17295]
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A Trump appointed Federal Judge struck down a Trump policy
Oct 6, 2023, 11:08 AM
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Regarding crossing multiple countries and seeking US asylum without seeking asylum in those countries.
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110%er [7155]
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Re: A Trump appointed Federal Judge struck down a Trump policy
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Oct 6, 2023, 6:28 PM
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Impeach the judge who made that ruling, regardless of which president appointed she / he / it.
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Oculus Spirit [97743]
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Controlling international wire transfers.
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Oct 6, 2023, 10:42 AM
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#1 easiest solution. Want to send money to a town in Guatemala? Prove you're here legally first.
It's not a difficult problem to solve. It is a difficult solution to end though. On the balance illegal immigration is a solution and not a problem. The problems are more than offset by the benefits.
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: Controlling international wire transfers.
Oct 6, 2023, 10:43 AM
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They seem like a prob this past year.
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110%er [7155]
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Re: Controlling international wire transfers.
Oct 6, 2023, 6:34 PM
[ in reply to Controlling international wire transfers. ] |
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At best, this will only make a token difference.
Crooked American authorities who are employed by crooked American political regimes will just ‘make the judgement’ that the immigrant who requests the wire transfer is a legal immigrant.
(Since both Democrat and establishment Republican regimes love the influx of illegal immigrants, then only a non-establishment Republican regime would make a difference on this.)
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
Oct 6, 2023, 10:48 AM
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Dems always say we need immigration reform. I wonder what that entails?
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Orange Blooded [4790]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
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Oct 6, 2023, 10:59 AM
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Come down on employers who hire them. Yes it would cause some heartburn in certain industries but no jobs being available, coupled with zero access to public assistance or health care would help a lot I think. Having said that I think it would be beneficial to all parties to set up some kind of work program where we allow these folks to enter legally and if they are well behaved allow them a path to citizenship. We do need some kind of vetting process however.
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
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Oct 6, 2023, 11:08 AM
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Investing in Mexico would just be throwing the money away. We aren't fixing Mexico.
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
Oct 6, 2023, 11:13 AM
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People will always try to cross in droves until Mexico improves. They have the labor and we have the needs. Utilize it.
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
Oct 6, 2023, 11:23 AM
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Mexico won't improve enough anytime in our lifetimes or anyone alive on Earth today.
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
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Oct 6, 2023, 11:27 AM
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Didn't say it was a quick fix, cause minus letting them all in with work permits, there isn't one. They have labor that we need. If we move a good portion of manufacturing over there, they won't be wanting to come here en mass. Most of them just want a job and a chance.
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110%er [7155]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
Oct 6, 2023, 6:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: Immigration Southern Border ] |
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Investing in Mexico will only serve to further enrich the cartels.
If the USA were to declare the cartels as terrorist organizations, then the USA’s Homeland Security Dept, military, and CIA would possess the legal authority to use sophisticated weaponry to decimate the cartels.
Wonder why America hasn’t done this yet? Because Obrador has BEGGED us to not do this.
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CU Medallion [58430]
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One way to stop it is to stop allowing, inviting, and
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Oct 6, 2023, 11:57 AM
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supporting it.
1. Do what we can to secure and control the border, including walls, razor wire, national guard/military, etc., whatever we can to physically keep people from entering illegally.
2. Start jailing or deporting all people who are here illegally now.
Instead of spending 45 billion on IRS enforcement, divert a few billion of that to illegal immigration enforcement.
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: One way to stop it is to stop allowing, inviting, and
Oct 6, 2023, 12:12 PM
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Some say we need a lot of these illegals. It seems like we would create a lot of problems too. Also, a lot of the illegals have kids that are legal. Also, what about the Dreamers?
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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Re: One way to stop it is to stop allowing, inviting, and
Oct 6, 2023, 12:27 PM
[ in reply to One way to stop it is to stop allowing, inviting, and ] |
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1. We've been trying this for at least 40 years and it doesn't work. It won't work using the National Guard either unless it's shoot to kill.
2. We've been doing that for at least 40 years as well.
Again, you they'll keep trying to cross until either they are no longer impoverished or until you start mowing them down.
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: One way to stop it is to stop allowing, inviting, and
Oct 6, 2023, 12:30 PM
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Maybe mine fields? We aren't stopping the impoverished. That will never happen in the world. We can be harsh like Hungary and they will go away. They cleaned house, so have other countries in Europe. It is possible. On the other hand, we are supposed to have higher morals.
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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Re: One way to stop it is to stop allowing, inviting, and
Oct 6, 2023, 12:50 PM
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There are only 2 immediate choices, Lethal force or humanely deal with migrants. That's reality. Long term solutions is for Mexico/Central/South America to to be 1st world status.
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: One way to stop it is to stop allowing, inviting, and
Oct 6, 2023, 12:58 PM
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None of that will happen.
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CU Medallion [58430]
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Bullfuckingshit.
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Oct 6, 2023, 12:47 PM
[ in reply to Re: One way to stop it is to stop allowing, inviting, and ] |
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1. If we want to end the crisis that we are facing now, we would, and it would be totally, 100% justified. We can't take in every impoverished person in the world who wants to come to our country; we know that. We don't have to explain that or apologize for it. In fact, the amount we are letting in now is creating a crisis. We have no moral obligation to do so. Our government does have a moral obligation to enforce and uphold our laws, and protect Americans from people and crises like this. Our government is obligated to protect and secure our borders.
2. We have done a pisspoor job of it. Do it better, do it right.
Don't be afraid to enforce our laws and our immigration policies, and don't apologize when we do. And yes, there will always be crime and criminals who break or have no respect for our laws. The goal is not to end it altogether, even though that would be great. The goal is to reduce it to a manageable, non-crisis level, which we can certainly do.
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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Re: Bullfuckingshit.
Oct 6, 2023, 12:53 PM
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That's nice and all, but barriers have proven to not work. Unless you start shooting to kill, they will keep coming. FACT.
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CU Medallion [58430]
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Barriers DO WORK.
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Oct 6, 2023, 1:10 PM
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They don't solve the problem entirely, but they have an impact when done properly.
And unless you start shooting to kill, they will keep coming.
1. No they won't.
2. If they do, then shoot to kill. No apologies.
They are coming here in such large numbers now because they think they are going to be let in. They think that for good reason - because most of them will be let in - never to be seen again by any law enforcement or government employee, unless they are arrested for another crime at a later date.
Once word gets out that they are not welcome, will not be allowed in, and will be quickly deported if they do, the numbers will reduce greatly and no shooting will be necessary.
To say that we can't secure the border and ultimately have no right to do so is a lie.
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Heisman Winner [137981]
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So just to clarify, you are officially advocating
Oct 6, 2023, 1:23 PM
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shooting and killing people who illegally cross the border?
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CU Medallion [58430]
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Only as a last resort.
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Oct 6, 2023, 2:36 PM
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But that must be on the table, absolutely. If it's not, we have no border, and no country.
It's shocking to me that that idea is so shocking to so many. We went through this the other day; nobody is obligated to provide their services or fruits of their labor to anyone else. The example I used was healthcare. Doctors are not obligated to treat anyone. It's a little different, but I'd say nobody is required, morally or otherwise, to let just anyone enter or live in their home, or stay on their property. The same applies to our country; we are not obligated to let anyone in. We have the right to keep people out. The reality of that is that yes, we may have to kill people to enforce that.
Anything else is a childish fairy tale.
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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Re: Only as a last resort.
Oct 6, 2023, 3:38 PM
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When do we decide to shoot versus arrest someone for unlawful entry?
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CU Medallion [58430]
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Common sense.
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Oct 6, 2023, 4:58 PM
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Shooting is a last resort, but must be an option if all else fails. Otherwise, we have no border, no sovereignty, no country. You are acting as if that is outrageous, or unthinkable. Why do you think police and soldiers carry guns? They carry them to shoot people when they need to. Sometimes they need to, and unfortunately, that means people get hurt and die.
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CU Medallion [58430]
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I don't think it has to go that far, however. The main thing
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Oct 6, 2023, 5:24 PM
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is to stop letting people in freely. Stop as many as we can. Turn back, send back, and return as may illegals as we can. Get out the message that they are not welcome, they won't be let in, and if they do somehow get in, they will be arrested and/or deported. Take away the incentive for coming here illegally.
I'm not suggesting that we just send the army to the border and start mowing people down. I am suggesting that we make it clear that illegal entry is not welcome and will no longer be tolerated. Block, deter, explain, negotiate, etc., but make it clear that force will be used. Hopefully that will do it.
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110%er [7155]
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Disincentivize the immigrants from attempting to cross over
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Oct 6, 2023, 6:47 PM
[ in reply to Only as a last resort. ] |
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Those entities that are assisting / recruiting immigrants to cross into the USA via illegal means must be taught that there are no incentives for doing this.
That can only happen if the immigrants seeking entry via illegal means do not get satisfaction.
Build a high wall with razor wire and highly protected guard towers into which armed security personnel are stationed. Ordinance of first resort are rubber bullets. For those immigrants who manage to climb to the top anyways and endeavor to breach the razor wire, then lethal ordinance instead of rubber bullets will be deployed.
~ 6 months of this, and illegal immigration will slow to a trickle.
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: Bullfuckingshit.
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Oct 6, 2023, 12:54 PM
[ in reply to Bullfuckingshit. ] |
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1. We don't need to really explain it, but there are a lot of nuances. It's not that cut and dry.
2. Yes we have done a pisspoor job of it. I am for strict borders as well. It's much more nuanced than we are making it out to be due to the realities of what we created. We should clamp down now though on the new people coming in and figure out to control the wave we have been dealing with.
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: Bullfuckingshit.
Oct 6, 2023, 1:16 PM
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I also don't want to kick ourt hard working people with legal kids who have been here 15 years or whatever. Those kids don't even know the countries their parents are from. Some only speak English. I actually saw that in a case. I think we just need to start now and understand there are nuances. That said, I would be harsh on the new cases and waves of people. I support these new deportations back to Venezuela.
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110%er [7155]
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Re: Bullfuckingshit.
Oct 6, 2023, 6:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: Bullfuckingshit. ] |
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It is nonsense that taking a ‘nuanced’ approach will help.
Illegal immigration must not be incentivized.
Legal migration should be incentivized.
Disincentive involves creating obvious recognition between action and consequence. If the immigrant learns that neither he nor any family member will be make it to the USA via non-legal means will almost certainly lead to either being stuck on the Mexican side of the border or be struck with rubber bullets if they attempt to breach our border wall, then they will stop attempting illegal entry.
It is that simple.
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Orange Blooded [3017]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
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Oct 6, 2023, 1:04 PM
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Some say the wall is not helpful. Well, we dont have a wall so how do they know?
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
Oct 6, 2023, 1:08 PM
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We have Trumps border wall in places and it is being cut and they are driving SUV's thru it.
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Orange Blooded [3017]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
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Oct 6, 2023, 1:12 PM
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“In places”. Call me just a dumb farm boy but if I build a fence “in places” it will not keep the cows in. If I build a poor quality fence guess what happen? Cows get out. When I build a quality fence around the entire pasture guess what hapoens?
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CU Medallion [58430]
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Walls are not intended to be a total solution.
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Oct 6, 2023, 1:19 PM
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But when done properly, they definitely have an impact. Not done properly, they won't.
It's pretty simple, but some people can't comprehend it.
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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Orange Blooded [3017]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
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Oct 6, 2023, 1:29 PM
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Occasional breach huh? Better than no barrier? Back to my earlier point, maybe I should stop fencing because the cows have breached a couple times.
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
Oct 6, 2023, 1:30 PM
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Mexicans are smarter than cows.
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Orange Blooded [3017]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
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Oct 6, 2023, 1:31 PM
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Maybe.
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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Orange Blooded [3017]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
Oct 6, 2023, 1:49 PM
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We could build a secure border if we had the will. Dont tell me we cant. In this day if we cant then we are pathetic.
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
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Oct 6, 2023, 2:00 PM
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Wasn't DADDY suppose to do that and Mexico was paying for it? What happened? Unicorns and rainbows? 😆
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Orange Blooded [3017]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
Oct 6, 2023, 4:23 PM
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You tell us what the solution is? Lets assume you care about border security. Is a wall at least part of a comprehensive plan? Is it at least a deterrent for many? What is your solution?
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110%er [7155]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
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Oct 6, 2023, 7:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: Immigration Southern Border ] |
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Walls create an enormous impediment to crossing into the USA.
Highly protected guard towers manned by security armed security personnel using rubber bullets as the first option and lethal ordinance against aggressive immigrants that attempt to breach the razor wire at the top of the wall.
For highly armed ‘immigrants’ and/or their cartel sponsors who open fire on us from across the border, we shoot back.
Cartel will soon attempt to use human shields to make our wall-based security organizations squeamish about shooting back. The unfortunate want-to-be immigrants in this case will be faced with either attempting to escape from their cartel masters or to risk being shot.
Really difficult, but it comes down to the cartels killing their illegal immigrant ‘customers’ vs. USA security personnel’s right to protect themselves and the USA’s sovereignty, in which case the hostage immigrants are in a no win situation.
Tough as that is, it isn’t our fault if the immigrants make the wrong choice and put their lives into the hands of the cartels.
I’ll start a new thread to repeat this suggested solution.
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CU Medallion [58430]
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Well said.***
Oct 6, 2023, 7:45 PM
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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If cartels start shooting at guard towers, Cobra choppers
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Oct 6, 2023, 10:02 PM
[ in reply to Re: Immigration Southern Border ] |
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should start dealing with it. If Mexico can't control their own, we should show them how.
Drones aren't just for targets in the ME... They can be VERY effective on some cartel boss's hacienda.
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All-In [34598]
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Easy, literally close the border. Not hard***
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Oct 6, 2023, 1:43 PM
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: Easy, literally close the border. Not hard***
Oct 6, 2023, 2:02 PM
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I think it's much harder than you think and extremely complicated.
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CU Medallion [58430]
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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Re: Right. It's very simple, but it makes some people
Oct 6, 2023, 2:47 PM
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How do you keep people from crossing without shooting them? It's proven that the current border wall is easily and routinely breached.
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CU Medallion [58430]
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"The current border wall" is not much of a wall.
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Oct 6, 2023, 3:34 PM
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And even if it is built correctly and completely, of course some will figure a way over, under, through, and around. It's not expected to be 100% effective at keeping all illegals out. That doesn't mean it would be useless. Done right, it would have a significant impact, especially combined with other strategies.
What do you mean "without shooting them"? You act as if we can't do that. Only as a last resort, of course, but that must be on the table, and we have to be prepared to do it without apology.
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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Re: "The current border wall" is not much of a wall.
Oct 6, 2023, 3:43 PM
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I'm asking you when do we decide to shoot versus arrest undocumented migrants? We currently have laws on the books how to handle and process those charged with unlawful entry. I'm telling you that they will continue to find ways to breach any barrier we put up unless you start shooting. So I'm asking you, when do we start shooting and when do we follow the current laws that are on the books? How should border patrol handle this?
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110%er [7155]
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Re: "The current border wall" is not much of a wall.
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Oct 6, 2023, 7:18 PM
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Wrong question for this thread.
Are walls an effective component of border control’ is the first question, and what other additional or alternative means would be effective.
At this point, even the establishment Leftist Party has resorted to use of biporder walls to impede the influx of illegal immigrants.
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Hall of Famer [21579]
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So we should let these country bumpkin police just
Oct 6, 2023, 3:47 PM
[ in reply to "The current border wall" is not much of a wall. ] |
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shoot at will human beings crossing the boarder? You want to give that authority to them? Literally, giving people the death penalty for trying to get away from living conditions you couldn't even fathom. Wow.
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CU Medallion [58430]
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We are in no way obligated, morally or legally, to take
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Oct 6, 2023, 7:35 PM
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in everybody who wants in. We simply can't do that anyway. We have the right to regulate the flow of immigration and determine who gets in, and how many get in.
Without the threat of force, including deadly force, it is flat out impossible to do that. Otherwise, our borders and laws will be ignored.
If a random stranger wants to come into my house, I have the right to deny him entry, and use deadly force if he forces his way in. It's terrible if is down on his luck or is less fortunate than me, but I don't have to let him in. If he wants to live in my garage, or in the big tree in my front yard, I don't have to let him do that either; it would be a violation of my personal sovereignty. Now, maybe I can help him in some other way, and I'd probably feel compelled to do that, but if he tries to force his way into my house, he's probably going to get shot.
Now, I'm not talking about sending the army to the border and just mowing people down, certainly not at this point. I'm talking about reasonable enforcement of our immigration laws and border policies, using necessary escalation of force in response to escalations by the criminal, which unfortunately may end with deadly force. Anything less and we have no borders, no sovereignty, and no country.
If you think taking deadly force off of the table is an option, you are living in a fantasy world.
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Orange Blooded [3017]
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Re: We are in no way obligated, morally or legally, to take
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Oct 7, 2023, 6:21 AM
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I agree with this 100%
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110%er [6155]
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Full militarization of the border***
Oct 6, 2023, 4:34 PM
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All-TigerNet [12592]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
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Oct 6, 2023, 4:39 PM
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It's a complicated issue but walls while not keeping everyone out, do have a role. If the fix is to wait until Mexico and much of the world are 1st world countries then this problem will never be addressed.
Much of Appalachia and the Delta of Mississippi aren't even in the 1st World.
I've spent collectively many months in Mexico, Guatemala, Nicaragua and Colombia.
There is a bit of a middle class in Mexico and Colombia, but it's virtually nonexistent in Guatemala and Nicaragua. Corruption is rife in all of those countries and funneling more money down there will be unlikely to make its way to the people who could use the help.
We can't be the policeman for the world despite trying to do so for decades and we can't be a haven for every down and out human that has the misfortune to be born in a place with little chance for upward mobility for themselves or their children.
We do need workers to do jobs Americans are unwilling to do, but at some point whether that has already occurred or will in the future, we can't allow every person seeking a better life to illegally enter and stay here. What is the magic number of illegals that we can accommodate before our own standard of living declines?
I would submit it is not an infinite number and if we are to be a sovereign nation we have to control who gets in and do this in an orderly fashion.
The message out of DC is incongruent. We have Mayorkas, who has previously stated the border was secure, now stating that 26 waivers must be issued urgently to fast track the roughly 20 miles of proposed border wall in Starr County. He stated that he was forced to do this as Congress had earmarked money for the wall. That is insanity. Congress did not force the Biden Administration to waive 26 regulations in the way of this wall.
This is purely politics. Biden has been catching a ration of #### from the Governor of NY, the mayor of NYC and politicians from deep blue IL. These folks are on the hook for the consequences of the current nonsecure border and these states and cities can't afford for this influx to continue unabated.
Biden is signaling he's doing something while winking at us and stating nothing has changed. That's total BS.
This is a problem that needs to be addressed first by securing the border and then addressing what to do with folks already here along with determining what our selfish needs are re: workers. We don't need every poor person to come here nor should we allow them to do so.
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
Oct 6, 2023, 4:48 PM
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How would you propose we "secure" the border over what we have now. Should we continue building a wall that we constantly have to sink money into repair while migrants still cross?
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All-TigerNet [12592]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
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Oct 6, 2023, 5:06 PM
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I would advocate for Governors putting the National Guard on the border and aggressively detaining and deporting anyone entering illegally.
I would put up physical barriers in certain areas, along with placing sensors and drones into service to monitor other areas.
I would provide no housing, medical care, phones or transportation except back to their native country. There are too many incentives to come and stay now and very little to discourage someone from crashing the border.
I don't accept that we are helpless to stem this tide of humanity entering our country.
On an individual basis, I fully understand why so many of these folks are coming and I actually feel sorry for them, but we simply can't continue to let in this many people without negative effects.
We have people who mean us harm getting in. We have folks with drug resistant TB coming across. Most of us feel sorry for the down and out in our own cities and states. Many of us give money to charities or religious organizations to alleviate suffering among our fellow citizens, yet most of us don't want to provide a haven in our yard or our own home for these less fortunate people.
One can care and one can help people without leaving the front and back doors of our homes or nation ajar.
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CU Medallion [58430]
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Agree 100%. The idea that we just can't drastically reduce
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Oct 6, 2023, 9:22 PM
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illegal immigration and do a much better job of controlling our border is absurdly false. The idea that doing so is somehow morally objectional is even more ridiculous.
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
Oct 7, 2023, 7:50 AM
[ in reply to Re: Immigration Southern Border ] |
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Would the National Guard be shooting to kill? If not, what would be there effectiveness cause detaining and deporting is what we are doing now.
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110%er [7155]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
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Oct 6, 2023, 6:27 PM
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Those that say the wall won’t be helpful in stemming the tide of illegal immigration are either propagandists or stupid.
Walls help. Just ask the Vatican.
Even fences (low budget alternatives to walls) help … remember the temporary chain link fences at the Capitol Bldg back on J6 … those same fences that (?) contractors (?) / (?) subcontractors to Federal / Capitol Hill security personnel that were methodically cut and rolled neatly up before the J6 protesters approached the Capitol Building. Yes, this video & audio is in the hands of the FBI and a handful of independent journalists, but is forbidden to be released until a non-Kevin McCarthy led Republican led HoR gets the stones to release it. If fences didn’t impede the movement of people across a ‘trespass line,’ then there would never be a need for such structures in the first place.
Really interested in a vibrant discussion about this matter? Then start a new post in which ‘some other ideas to walls / fences’ would enhance the effectiveness of walls / fences.
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
Oct 6, 2023, 7:41 PM
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I don't think the Vatican is a good comparison. I am not saying walls don't help, because I think they probably do some.
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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Re: Immigration Southern Border
Oct 7, 2023, 7:28 AM
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Comparing 1/4 mile of wall to over 2000 of mostly unguarded miles. Great wall of China is a better comparison, but he doesn't want to go there. LOL.
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