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Oculus Spirit [81319]
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I just got the bill for my ER visit last month.
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:02 AM
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when I broke my ankle.
1 xray, 1 plastic cast, and 4 hours of sitting in a bed was $6600. I'm responsible for about $2300 of that.
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All-In [43077]
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Best HC system in the world.
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:07 AM
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All-In [46887]
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Can you imagine if we had that socialist healthcare
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:08 AM
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over there in europe? Not having to pay anything out of pocket? Gross.
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Hall of Famer [24293]
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^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:15 AM
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Thinks Europe is a country.
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Oculus Spirit [75869]
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You should see how many Europeans think the
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:24 AM
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European Union is a country. The also think supplier is the same as manufacturer and even though out system says something has a COO of China they will send me a Bulgarian address.
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Lot o points [156139]
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All-In [36450]
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Plus income taxes are almost 50% to pay for that.
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:19 AM
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I’d rather keep my extra money and pay some out of pocket.
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All-In [27315]
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CU Medallion [55851]
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All-In [34823]
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I just love people who rave about the healthcare in Canada,
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Sep 15, 2023, 11:11 AM
[ in reply to Can you imagine if we had that socialist healthcare ] |
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the EU, England, wherever. They're all in the process of denying care, instructing people to get private insurance for better standards of treatment. This is especially true when you reach a certain age.
Oh yeah, not to mention Mick Jagger flew to New York for his heart surgery.
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Oculus Spirit [81319]
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I have a buddy who lives in Canada.
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Sep 15, 2023, 12:29 PM
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He said he really likes the healthcare. He said he actually goes to the doctor now rather than when he lived here and never went because he couldn't afford it.
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All-In [46887]
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That's not what Tucker said***
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Sep 15, 2023, 12:30 PM
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All-In [34823]
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All-In [34823]
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Posts: 41036
Joined: 2/6/01
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Oculus Spirit [81319]
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Sep 15, 2023, 1:03 PM
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He moved there when he was in his 30's.
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All-In [34823]
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So he is still working and contributing to the government.
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Sep 15, 2023, 1:17 PM
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If he's still there in 12-13 years, his tune will change. It's the same in England and the EU. Older people have to get private insurance if they don't want long wait times.
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Oculus Spirit [81319]
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Well, his wife does.
Sep 15, 2023, 1:24 PM
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He's a stay at home dad.
They had had a kid about 4-5 years ago.
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All-In [34823]
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Well
Sep 15, 2023, 1:26 PM
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he's gonna get called grampa a lot at the elementary school.
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Oculus Spirit [81319]
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Yes he will.
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Sep 15, 2023, 2:26 PM
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Let just say that the littlest jr wasn't planned.
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All-In [34823]
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CU Medallion [56241]
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People use "healthcare" and "health insurance" interchangeab
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Sep 15, 2023, 1:08 PM
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ly and they shouldn't.
Most of the praise I've heard for the Canadian system is in regard to their health insurance. According to that article, the problem is with a shortage of healthcare professionals, which is a separate issue.
Our health insurance system sucks but we do have excellent healthcare if you can afford it.
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All-In [34823]
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HMMM. Why would there be a shortage of health care professionals?
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Sep 15, 2023, 1:22 PM
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Pay? Is it pay?
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CU Medallion [56241]
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Not exactly.
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Sep 15, 2023, 2:43 PM
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Provincial government decisions in the 1990s, when politicians reacted to the 1991 Barer-Stoddart Report, coupled with the erroneous belief that a surplus of FPs with overly generous wages was wasting taxpayer dollars, have served to shape the current Canadian healthcare crisis. These policies led to the curtailing of medical school seats, reduced family medicine (FM) residency positions and a dramatic increase in barriers to access for international medical graduates (IMGs) aiming to practice in Canada. This reduction of the workforce, compounded by the stagnation of wages, inflation and a decrease in government investment in primary care at the federal and provincial levels, have all contributed to today’s shortage of FPs in Canada.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10186392/ Biopsy of Canada’s family physician shortage Family physicians provide comprehensive care for the community and are an integral part of the healthcare system. Canada is experiencing a shortage of family physicians, driven in part by overbearing expectations of family physicians, limited support ...
Moar:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-turning-away-home-grown-doctors-1.6743486
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Lot o points [156139]
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LOL....
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Sep 15, 2023, 3:44 PM
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they teach the 1991 Barer-Stoddart Report pretty heavily in New Jersey early education?
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All-In [34823]
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So...central planning failure.
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Sep 18, 2023, 12:38 PM
[ in reply to Not exactly. ] |
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Is that your final answer?
God, I love when socialism falls flat on its face and yet another human paradigm attempt goes kablooey.
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Heisman Winner [105807]
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Brother of Greenr was the same way and he was just there
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Sep 15, 2023, 1:16 PM
[ in reply to I have a buddy who lives in Canada. ] |
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on a student visa for a few years. Meds and checkups were a breeze.
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All-In [34823]
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He's young.***
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Sep 15, 2023, 1:18 PM
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Lot o points [156139]
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I have 15-20 Canadians Im in close contact with regularly
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Sep 15, 2023, 2:56 PM
[ in reply to I have a buddy who lives in Canada. ] |
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With my business. They disagree with your buddy.
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All-In [40966]
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Oculus Spirit [97882]
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You can suppiment gubmint insurance with private insurance
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Sep 15, 2023, 3:28 PM
[ in reply to I just love people who rave about the healthcare in Canada, ] |
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for pennies on the dollar, as all the non-payers are weeded out of the system. If we had single payer, it would suck, BUT private insurance prices would drop WAY down. And with private insurance (in some countries) you can just opt out, have private insurance at less than half the cost of American insurance, and get better care in private hospitals.
This is the main reason single payer will never fly in the US. Poor people would be stuck in socialized medicine and wealthy people (really most people as insurance would drop in cost) would get good quality care.
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Oculus Spirit [94260]
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Oculus Spirit [81319]
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We're going to bankrupt ourselves over healthcare.
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:33 AM
[ in reply to Best HC system in the world. ] |
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This is yet another one of those things that is going on that is simply not sustainable.
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All-In [43077]
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That's ridiculous. Healthcare sytem is great, as long as you
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:42 AM
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don't get sick, hurt, old, or lose your job.
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110%er [7016]
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I'm employed, young-ish, uninjured, and healthy.
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:52 AM
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"Great" is not what comes to mind when I see what I'm paying for insurance every month.
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Lot o points [156139]
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Yes, but on the upside, those 18M uninsured people,
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:56 AM
[ in reply to We're going to bankrupt ourselves over healthcare. ] |
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12M or so of whom were young people with limited healthcare needs, now have the same crappy, expensive coverage that the other 300M of us gave up our good health care insurance for.
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Heisman Winner [105807]
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This is all some stupid game, right? I just don't
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:10 AM
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understand how any of this healthcare shiddd works.
If you showed up and got that same treatment with NO insurance and settled with the hospital, I bet you would pay less than $1k (which is still crazy expensive).
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All-In [43077]
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Or, just don't pay, declare bankruptcy, and then in just 7
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:12 AM
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years you can once again get enough credit to buy a new couch.
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All-In [36450]
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Healthcare bills dont go on your credit.
Sep 15, 2023, 10:35 AM
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You can literally just not pay them. Or setup $20 a month auto draft for 10 years. I still have never paid the 5k I owed when I broke my femur. It’s not on my credit score
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Heisman Winner [105807]
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110%er [7016]
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I believe JohnFBell is the poster with ATM rental properties
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:54 AM
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a rich and hot wife that is insatiable in bed, stock trades that only ever make money, and a 12 inch dong.
A little healthcare fraud is nothing.
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Lot o points [156139]
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Yes, that money just went into the ether and didn't get
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:54 AM
[ in reply to Healthcare bills dont go on your credit. ] |
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added on the to later bills of everyone else who does pay their bill.
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110%er [7016]
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All-In [34823]
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Yes they most certainly do go onto your credit.
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Sep 15, 2023, 11:08 AM
[ in reply to Healthcare bills dont go on your credit. ] |
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When it gets turned over to collections, boom. What you're saying used to be true, but somewhere in the past 10-15 years, that has changed.
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Heisman Winner [138272]
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Orange Blooded [4824]
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Re: This is all some stupid game, right? I just don't
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:23 AM
[ in reply to This is all some stupid game, right? I just don't ] |
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Or you could just give them a fake name and fake info and never pay any of it back. Imagine how much your groceries would cost if grocery stores were legally required to provide free food to anyone that walked through their front door. That's the modern reality at hospitals so there you go. Pay up for everybody else sucker!
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All-In [34823]
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The accounting is some third world standard.
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Sep 15, 2023, 11:25 AM
[ in reply to This is all some stupid game, right? I just don't ] |
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Billed: $20,000
Insurance discount: $11,223
Insurance paid $7,100
You owe: $1,677
To your statement, if you have no insurance, the hospital will bill you for $20,000. You can pay it back at $10 a month, but that will be your bill.
Who can run a business like this? If it costs $20,000, and you only get paid $8,777, how does that work? Somebody is running a shell game in the middle of all of this.
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All-In [49198]
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Well, it's a negotiated rate...
Sep 15, 2023, 12:44 PM
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There is a reason that it's like pulling teeth to get a hospital to bill my client's health insurance for injuries in a wreck. They want to see if they can get a better rate of return from me after I conclude the case.
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All-In [34823]
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Yeah, they always ask if "the injury" is due to a
Sep 15, 2023, 12:47 PM
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car accident or injury at work. I see their game.
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All-In [47898]
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IF YOU LIKE YOUR DOCTOR, YOU CAN KEEP YOUR DOCTOR.
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:12 AM
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I believe was the quote.
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Heisman Winner [136614]
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The sad thing around here is -
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:16 AM
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If you don't like your doctor you can't get a new doctor because they are all in the same network and "they don't poach each others' patients".
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CU Medallion [56241]
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All-TigerNet [10889]
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Re: I just got the bill for my ER visit last month.
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:12 AM
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The last bill I received from a hospital was for my daughter (also an ankle injury).
Once everything was settled with the insurance company they told me what was due...then told me they'd take 40% off if I paid cash that day.
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CU Medallion [56241]
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It's like hospitals are run by used car salesmen.
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:22 AM
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"What do I have to do to get you into this cast today?"
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All-In [43077]
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Used car salesmen who can't even tell you the price until
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:23 AM
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6 weeks later when you add up all 4 bills you get from them.
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Orange Blooded [4824]
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Re: I just got the bill for my ER visit last month.
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:21 AM
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My very young and naive family member went there because she felt sick and received a covid test. Ended up costing $3000 with us being responsible for $1000. Needless to say we've had the discussion with her about the difference between the emergency room and an urgent care.
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All-In [49267]
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I went to the ER when I broke my ankle. Sat there a long
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:30 AM
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time, finally got into exam room, sat there a long time. They decided to keep me overnight and scheduled surgery for the am. By the next am, ankle was too swollen to operate. After it eventually was (2 weeks later) and the final bill showed up, I owed thousands after insurance. I told them I wasn't paying because they didn't give me good care before the initial surgery by making sure my ankle didn't swell up.
They reviewed my case and I didn't have to pay.
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All-In [47898]
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Joined: 11/15/99
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Please don't tell me it was Oconee Memorial.
Sep 18, 2023, 2:05 PM
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Or maybe tell me it was.
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Oculus Spirit [75869]
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Joined: 10/26/03
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That dang ole smart watch I got tells me my
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:31 AM
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minimum blood oxygen level is in the 80s when I sleep. I told this to my regular doctor and she wanted me to do a sleep study. Amazingly that MY Chart stuff figured out the cost before hand, it was going to cost me like $3000. Now Kenny Rogers taught me the best I can hope for is to die in my sleep, so I'm going to risk it. I am not going to pay that much only to then have to buy a CPAP. I don't believe the place that says you need the CPAP should also be in the CPAP selling business.
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Oculus Spirit [81319]
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I've never known anyone who had a sleep study
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:34 AM
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and didn't end up needing a CPAP.
That seems odd to me.
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Heisman Winner [105807]
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Yep, they are batting 1000 on prescribing CPAP machines
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:36 AM
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for anyone willing to take a sleep study.
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Heisman Winner [138272]
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Right, but people who don't snore and wake themselves
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:47 AM
[ in reply to I've never known anyone who had a sleep study ] |
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up multiple times a minute aren't generally doing sleep studies, either. I've been told my entire adult life how bad my snoring is and how much I actually stop breathing at night.
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Oculus Spirit [75869]
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Joined: 10/26/03
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Sharkgirl does claim I stop breathing sometimes but
Sep 15, 2023, 10:51 AM
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never complains about snoring. I don't deny that I could possibly need a machine or that implant thing, but I don't want to pay $3000 to be told that. I can just pay about $800 and see if it helps.
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All-In [46887]
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My dad did one of those sleep studies. He is famous
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:52 AM
[ in reply to Right, but people who don't snore and wake themselves ] |
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for how loud his snoring is.
Went back to the doctor to read the results and the doctor goes "how have you not died in your sleep yet?"
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Oculus Spirit [75869]
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Then what?***
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:53 AM
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All-In [46887]
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He got a cpap***
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:54 AM
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Lot o points [156139]
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Posts: 65928
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Heisman Winner [138272]
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You know we pretty much look the same, right?***
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Sep 15, 2023, 11:04 AM
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Lot o points [156139]
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I've met my self-deprecation quota for the week.
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Sep 15, 2023, 11:10 AM
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Was just trying to lash out a little, but ok, point taken.
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Lot o points [163012]
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Is this for a home study or one at a facility?
Sep 15, 2023, 10:36 AM
[ in reply to That dang ole smart watch I got tells me my ] |
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My BIL did a home one but I have no idea what the cost was.
And, yes, he now has a CPAP. I know some people swear by them. Losing weight helped me get better sleep.
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Oculus Spirit [75869]
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It was going to be at a facility.
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:43 AM
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I think I sleep fine currently and don't trust the watch or some fitbit to really be accurate.
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Lot o points [156139]
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If only there were some method to determine if they were
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:45 AM
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accurate.
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Oculus Spirit [75869]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 108922
Joined: 10/26/03
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The world would be better, but we just have not
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:51 AM
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gotten there yet.
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All-In [49198]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38849
Joined: 12/31/97
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My brother got a cpap...
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Sep 15, 2023, 1:01 PM
[ in reply to That dang ole smart watch I got tells me my ] |
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after an at home sleep study they let him handle himself. He and my sister in law said it's changed their sleeping and their lives.
Also had a work colleague at one time and you could tell when he used his cpap and when he didn't. No CPAP and he would be nodding off all day long during meetings. If he used it he was alert all day.
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All-In [47898]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30508
Joined: 11/15/99
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I'm doing a sleep study in about 3 weeks.
Sep 18, 2023, 2:04 PM
[ in reply to That dang ole smart watch I got tells me my ] |
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I gotta come off the hip for about $300 or so with insurance (pre-visits included it's prolly more like $600-ish OOP).
In my case I snore some (a lot if I have a couple glasses of red wine) but I don't sleep well at all, waking up multiple times at nigh, tossing and turning, etc.
I fully expect a CPAP based on that and the pre-test.
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All-In [26611]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 20723
Joined: 9/2/02
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Did u ask if they accept Tigernet coins ?
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:44 AM
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If they do, I'll give you some.
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Heisman Winner [105807]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65295
Joined: 12/2/02
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Hellll yeah, I'll bankrupt my TNET piggy bank for
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Sep 15, 2023, 10:46 AM
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Ineligible user to pay his medical bills.
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Lot o points [156139]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65928
Joined: 5/6/13
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LOL, this reminded me of my bro-in-law.
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Sep 15, 2023, 11:03 AM
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The famous starving artist in CA who is 55 years old and bangs 20 somethings and travels all over the world, but doesn't pay for insurance and runs with an identical crowd, so every week his instagram feed has a gofundme for a friend who got hit by a car while riding their bike in San Francisco.
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Oculus Spirit [81319]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 56312
Joined: 9/13/04
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That guy sounds fun***
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Sep 15, 2023, 11:53 AM
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All-In [31938]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37222
Joined: 11/22/03
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Maybe I'm really skewed after all of the surgeries...
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Sep 15, 2023, 11:26 AM
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and health issues, etc...but $2300 for an ER visit with xrays, broken bone, etc...doesn't sound that bad to me.
I guess you didn't have the option to wait and go to ortho office. When my son broke his ankle we took him to ortho office and they did xrays and put him in a cast and I think it ran around $500.
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Oculus Spirit [81319]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 56312
Joined: 9/13/04
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Well if you divide that by the hour...its only $575/hr***
Sep 15, 2023, 11:54 AM
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All-TigerNet [14283]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13861
Joined: 7/10/03
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I'm just north of $370K
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Sep 15, 2023, 11:56 AM
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Only out of pocket about $4K.
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Lot o points [156139]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65928
Joined: 5/6/13
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Just block their calls and don't pay it.
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Sep 15, 2023, 12:02 PM
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They'll just give it to you free after two weeks with no credit ding. Trust me.
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110%er [7016]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2278
Joined: 9/2/21
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There is no doubt some hospital administrator has
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Sep 15, 2023, 12:09 PM
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researched whether you can repo a heart.
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All-TigerNet [14283]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13861
Joined: 7/10/03
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Oculus Spirit [81319]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 56312
Joined: 9/13/04
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I think thats my deductible for the year.
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Sep 15, 2023, 12:14 PM
[ in reply to I'm just north of $370K ] |
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You got a new heart valve, and I got a plastic cast for almost the same amount of money.
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All-TigerNet [14283]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13861
Joined: 7/10/03
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Nice***
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Sep 15, 2023, 1:31 PM
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All-In [40966]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42971
Joined: 11/30/98
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This is what insurance is for
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Sep 15, 2023, 4:03 PM
[ in reply to I'm just north of $370K ] |
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yet we want it to pay for all our healthcare. That's what drives up the cost so much.
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Orange Blooded [3227]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4096
Joined: 6/24/23
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Re: I just got the bill for my ER visit last month.
Sep 15, 2023, 12:01 PM
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Wild. At least you got the best of the best. What happens if you refuse to pay?
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Oculus Spirit [81319]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 56312
Joined: 9/13/04
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The best of teh best?
Sep 15, 2023, 12:12 PM
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I dunno..it was 12a-4am in a Mt Pleasant ER. I was just glad the nurse wasn't still drunk from being out in a boat all weekend.
All they did was take an x-ray and put a plastic cast on it. I don't know what else they could have done really, but it didn't seem like much for the cost and the amount of time it took. I was literally the only patient in the ER.
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All-In [34823]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 41036
Joined: 2/6/01
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I am now an expert on reading hospital bills and EOB's
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Sep 15, 2023, 12:16 PM
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after Mumbette's liver transplant in March of 2019. No one was more concerned about the prospective costs than I was. I had done research and the "usual customary" number that insurance companies quoted at that time was about $750,000; MUSC told us they had "never had a 'usual and customary'" liver transplant, that $1,200,000 was more the norm. In addition, the hospital staff told us, "You need to see the finance guy." I didn't know what he was going to say, but I figured I'd stand it like a man and get on with things. I finally was able to see him, having steeled myself for whatever he was going to say, and he just kinda pointed at me and said, "Don't change your insurance." That was it.
Those numbers are frightening to all but the uber-wealthy; my health insurance is $5,000 out of pocket maximum per patient, $10,000 per the family. Lo and behold, once Mumbette's bills hit $5,000, it was 100% covered after that. They still played their shell game where the insurance company discounted the hospitals bill by some significant amount, but nothing was due from us.
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All-In [46887]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30773
Joined: 8/11/15
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Same happened to me when I got COVID and was
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Sep 15, 2023, 12:26 PM
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taken to the hospital by ambulance.
Thought for sure it would take all of my sweet equity away.
Nope. Hit the out of pocket max and didn't have to pay a dime.
Thank goodness I got Covid around Christmas.
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Lot o points [156139]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65928
Joined: 5/6/13
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you took an ambulance to the hospital....for Covid...
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Sep 15, 2023, 3:46 PM
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All-In [40966]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42971
Joined: 11/30/98
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All-In [31593]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10231
Joined: 1/28/15
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Re: I just got the bill for my ER visit last month.
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Sep 15, 2023, 2:06 PM
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I just want everyone to know, when you go to the ER or have surgery, the doctor you saw didn’t get but a tiny fraction of what you get billed or what the hospital collects. Almost all of us get paid a certain number of dollars for a standard unit of work called an RVU, “doctor points,” so to speak. Every procedure we do or consult we see is worth a fixed number of doctor points.
As an example, if I do a gastric bypass I get 29.4 RVUs. Of the total that the hospital collects for the bundle for that operation, I bet my 29 RVUs translates to about 1/10-1/20 of what the total bill is.
There are a lot of people making a lot of money in medicine. And it should be that way, it’s the biggest sector of our economy. But the days of doctors making generational wealth in medicine are long, long gone.
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All-In [31593]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10231
Joined: 1/28/15
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Re: I just got the bill for my ER visit last month.
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Sep 15, 2023, 2:12 PM
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I also want to say, the US has the best healthcare on Earth, and it’s not even close. If you want the best, it’s going to be expensive.
What we do not have is the best access to healthcare, which is why health outcomes aren’t going to be the best, because we have made it challenging for the poor and people in rural areas to access primary healthcare, a modicum of which can usually ameliorate a large number of long term issues that lead to lower life expectancy, worse prenatal care, etc.
So, take your pick. You get to have access to the best quality specialists in every single field in almost every medium sized city, well staffed and well appointed hospitals, or you can have cheaper care and better primary care access. I know which one I’m picking.
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Lot o points [156139]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65928
Joined: 5/6/13
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That's what I'm saying. You're a guy I'd totally trust to
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Sep 15, 2023, 3:38 PM
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go in my butt, and you seem highly qualified. If we were in a socialized system where the take-home for your profession might barely crack 6 figures, I'm guessing you'd just quit and go ride the John Deere Gator around the family compound all day. I want you on that wall and in my butt.
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Legend [18026]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30159
Joined: 9/9/06
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Except that he says he's not seeing that added income
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Sep 15, 2023, 6:13 PM
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what if in a more equitable system we could have both quality and access instead of having a middle-man take a large chunk of the profits?
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Lot o points [156139]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65928
Joined: 5/6/13
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Hes making a lot more than that.***
Sep 16, 2023, 7:34 AM
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Oculus Spirit [94260]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95529
Joined: 12/25/09
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All-In [31593]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10231
Joined: 1/28/15
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Oculus Spirit [94260]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95529
Joined: 12/25/09
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You kids today!
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Sep 16, 2023, 5:24 AM
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Back in the day we would have just walked it off.
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Oculus Spirit [81319]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 56312
Joined: 9/13/04
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I tried to walk right after I heard it snap
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Sep 16, 2023, 12:43 PM
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and I just fell over and had to crawl to my door.
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Legend [16748]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 16774
Joined: 8/19/04
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Re: I just got the bill for my ER visit last month.
Sep 18, 2023, 9:02 PM
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Based on some of my recent bills, you got a deal.
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