|
Replies: 26
| visibility 1
|
Orange Blooded [4559]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4427
Joined: 7/14/03
|
Comparing TCU/Clemson offensive personnel
10
10
Jan 20, 2023, 7:06 PM
|
|
Today I watched all of TCU’s offensive plays to see how much work Garrett Riley has cut out for him at Clemson. IMO here’s what I saw:
Offensive Line- ADVANTAGE Clemson. Duggar was routinely pressured. Also TCU seemed soft in run blocking. We have far better OL talent than TCU
Tight Ends- ADVANTAGE- Even. Felt there was no significant difference between the two schools
Wide Receivers- ADVANTAGE TCU by a mile! Here’s where there’s the biggest disparity. Not one of our receivers could’ve started for TCU. They had a great mix of size and speed, and Riley dialed up plays to showcase their abilities.
Running Backs- ADVANTAGE Clemson. Riley is gonna have fun scheming plays for Shipley and Mafah. Gonna be fun to see how he uses them.
Quarterback- ADVANTAGE TCU by just a little. The only advantage Duggan has over Cade is experience and moxie. Cade and Vizzina are far more fast and athletic. I was surprised at how slow footed Duggan was.
If we can improve our WR play we’ll have a successful season with Riley at the helm. I think he’s gonna be pleasantly surprised with the OL and RB talent because it’s miles better than what he had at TCU.
|
|
|
|
 |
110%er [7179]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6885
Joined: 1/25/17
|
Re: Comparing TCU/Clemson offensive personnel
4
Jan 20, 2023, 7:46 PM
|
|
twentytwofifteen Good assessment!
I think Antonio Williams could have started for them. AW0 got limited at Clemson L.Y. because of questionable route tree creativity, once it was clear he was the best WR playmaker; coverage was rolled to him, QB play was not always the best and at times the QB didn't have time to get the pass to him.
If we have an advantage at OL that's great. He was a 60/40 play-caller last year(which may be skewed a bit if they were up in games and running it all 2nd half). He is a run-1st Air Raid OC(much like Dana Holgorsen morphed to being).
I think Davis Allen and Jake Big Time Birningstool have NFL talent! I didn't watch TCU a ton; but they must be nice. See same thing about Williams, Antonio here for the TE group in terms of production.
WR group - outside of A.Williams I can't make a case at all.
RB room is sick at Clemson. And, I have my eye on Keith Adams Jr. I think he is going to end up being one of those steals.
Thanks for posting and breaking it down like that. Awesome stuff!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18321]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7036
Joined: 10/15/21
|
Re: Comparing TCU/Clemson offensive personnel
3
Jan 20, 2023, 7:52 PM
|
|
Then you haven’t watched the WR then, Beaux was having a decent year before injury and was open on a ton of plays DJ missed. Randall will finally be 100% having something to prove, and Cole Turner has that WRU fight in him which will only make him better. Noble Johnson averaged 17 yards per catch in HS and consistently beat top competition in his All American game. But for sure Garrett Riley left a decent job to go run an offense with only one WR ?♂️?♂️?♂️
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-American [561]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 6262
Joined: 8/30/14
|
Re: Comparing TCU/Clemson offensive personnel
Jan 21, 2023, 2:01 AM
|
|
Yes, you must factor the signal & play caller handicaps the Tiger WR pos group was saddled with for 2 years-not to mention the cumulative emotiona l and mental drain-8-29
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18798]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12827
Joined: 11/30/95
|
Quick question...
Jan 20, 2023, 8:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: Comparing TCU/Clemson offensive personnel ] |
|
Why do you think Keith Adams Jr will be a steal? I watched his film and didn't really see anything to make me believe that. I am not being smart, just sincerely curious.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4792]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 4835
Joined: 1/8/19
|
Re: Comparing TCU/Clemson offensive personnel
Jan 21, 2023, 12:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: Comparing TCU/Clemson offensive personnel ] |
|
We could have had Moss and Rice at WR the last two years and you'd have never known it. Between the QB play and, let's just say, suspect play calling its no wonder practically every WR that's come into the program the last couple of years has underwhelmed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1537]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 692
Joined: 3/10/01
|
Re: Comparing TCU/Clemson offensive personnel
Jan 21, 2023, 12:34 PM
|
|
I agreed. Dj would overthrown a giant…..or take a sack and fumble
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [23112]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 19813
Joined: 1/15/11
|
LOL Ask Briles
Jan 20, 2023, 7:55 PM
|
|
He'll tell it was an UPgrade across the board. Your keyboard Warrior Analysis is based on an Underperforming QB and Streeter as the OC. BUCKLE UP
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [22392]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7155
Joined: 8/31/03
|
My, much more elemtary, analysis.
2
Jan 20, 2023, 8:24 PM
|
|
I appreciate your breakdown. I don't know near enough X and O stuff to match your analysis.
My viewpoint is this: Clemson has plenty of talent at the skill positions to successfully run Riley's offense if the offensive line can do two things -
1. Protect CK well enough for him to stay in the pocket and make his reads.
2. Put a hat on a hat and move a DL when the defense only has 5 in the box.
It's all up to the OL.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5579]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4064
Joined: 10/3/03
|
Interesting take
1
Jan 20, 2023, 8:30 PM
|
|
I don't mean to be a contrarian, but I know Clemson has better offensive talent than TCU simply by looking at the recruiting rankings. To think that Clemson whiffed on half their roster is statistically improbable. At Clemson it's all about the X's and O's, not the Jimmy's and Joe's.
For example, Klubnick is way more talented than Duggan.
Clemson hired Riley to get the most out of the offensive talent that was obviously underperforming. Never underestimate how much more talented a team looks when it's coached well, and executes better. 
I think you discount the talent advantage Clemson has over TCU and think once our boys are put in position to excel they will. With the exception of WR because of poor coaching, I expect the entire offense to be 100% "back on track" by late next season.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4559]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4427
Joined: 7/14/03
|
Re: Interesting take
4
Jan 20, 2023, 8:41 PM
|
|
I dont discount it at all. But I’m telling you the WR disparity between us and TCU wasn’t close from all the games I saw. Just one man’s opinion I thought I’d share.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18798]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12827
Joined: 11/30/95
|
People have short memories
3
Jan 20, 2023, 9:00 PM
|
|
Our WRs are horrible to so/so outside of Williams last year
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5579]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4064
Joined: 10/3/03
|
Re: Interesting take
Jan 20, 2023, 9:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: Interesting take ] |
|
I hear you, and I don't disagree that our WRs didn't look as good. I just think at lot of Clemson's WRs looking slow and unathletic is due to poor execution, which I attribute poor to coaching. Dropped passes is the norm, and that's an indicator. No way Hunter Renfro ever happens with Tyler Grisham/Streeter coaching him.
Jeff Scott actually recruited a bunch of our roster "duds", and I don't think it's a coincidence our WR unit tanked as soon as he left campus. I honestly believe those WR "duds" would be studs with he and Riley coaching them. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5038]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3555
Joined: 7/7/12
|
Re: Interesting take
Jan 21, 2023, 12:51 AM
|
|
Hunter Renfrow arrived on campus as a polished receiver and immediately won the respect of players and coaches due to his ability to run good routes..... as a result, he received a scholarship before his first game.
I don't think our coaching had a lot to do with his success..... maybe we did find some plays to utilize his skills, but he was the real deal before he got to Clemson.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5579]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4064
Joined: 10/3/03
|
So that's why he was a walk-on?
Jan 21, 2023, 7:13 AM
|
|
I wondered why he didn't have any D1 football offers even though he was already a stud high school receiver. It's like people just didn't recognize his football greatness until he put on a Clemson uniform. Makes total sense now.
He did have a couple D1 baseball scholarship offers, but that's it.
Our coaching staff lucked into him walking on and rode the wave. Thanks for the clarification.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [806]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 794
Joined: 7/30/12
|
Re: Interesting take
2
Jan 21, 2023, 10:59 AM
[ in reply to Re: Interesting take ] |
|
Hunter Renfro was a high school QB and played some safety on defense. He had div 1 offer App State but turned it down to walk on at Clemson.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [9903]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4537
Joined: 3/24/19
|
Re: Interesting take
Jan 21, 2023, 3:35 PM
|
|
This^
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4036]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3527
Joined: 8/19/03
|
Re: Interesting take
1
Jan 21, 2023, 4:49 PM
[ in reply to Re: Interesting take ] |
|
Clearly not accurate.
He was a QB, not a “polished” receiver.
Not sure why you made that up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4195]
TigerPulse: 88%
Posts: 1548
Joined: 11/1/06
|
Re: Interesting take
1
Jan 20, 2023, 9:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: Interesting take ] |
|
I agree with your view ....I think DJ inaccuracy was a major issue with our receivers as well as his inability to read a defense ....i do believe we will be greatly improved in 2023
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [8540]
TigerPulse: 48%
Posts: 11521
Joined: 9/9/06
|
Re: Comparing TCU/Clemson offensive personnel
1
Jan 20, 2023, 9:04 PM
|
|
I don't think you can say with their record and stats that our O line and backs were far better. Their leading rusher had more yards than Ship and their average was higher than ours. Time will tell and we have potential great pieces of the puzzle but Riley has work to do.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4559]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4427
Joined: 7/14/03
|
Re: Comparing TCU/Clemson offensive personnel
1
Jan 20, 2023, 9:39 PM
|
|
Yeah that tends to happen when your 1000 yard rusher has less than 30 carries total from the second of half of the South Carolina game until the last game of the season.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5102]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2262
Joined: 6/8/06
|
Re: Comparing TCU/Clemson offensive personnel
1
Jan 20, 2023, 9:11 PM
|
|
Nice work. I appreciate the effort. Looking forward to next season.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44055]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32968
Joined: 2/22/03
|
How is Duggan “just a little” advantage over Cade?
1
Jan 20, 2023, 9:47 PM
|
|
Duggan: 43 college starts, 47 games played, 739-1225 passing, 60.3% completion percentage, 9618 yards, 73 TDs.
Klubnik: 2 college starts, 10 games played, 61-100 passing, 61% completion percentage, 697 yards, 2 TDs.
That’s a huge advantage. Take away Duggan’s senior year stats and it’s still a huge advantage.
Don’t get me wrong, Cade is certainly talented, but based on their performance so far Duggan is way ahead of Cade.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-American [561]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 6262
Joined: 8/30/14
|
Re: How is Duggan “just a little” advantage over Cade?
Jan 21, 2023, 2:37 AM
|
|
Actually your probably correct but it's bc he's arguably just as talented not bc of his 4 yrs of compiled stats in the B12-
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4312
Joined: 10/6/03
|
I think that is pretty accurate
Jan 20, 2023, 10:00 PM
|
|
The one area I might disagree on is O-line, because I think it’s closer to even.
I’m interested to see how the WR’s look in the new scheme. I agree with you and the conventional wisdom that we are at a disadvantage at WR
We all complained how our receivers couldn’t get separation and the air raid is designed to get WR’s wide open.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2483]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3408
Joined: 9/5/04
|
Re: Comparing TCU/Clemson offensive personnel
1
Jan 21, 2023, 11:33 AM
|
|
I watched a 12-minute YouTube clip of TCU offensive highlights from last year.
They had some very quick WRs. One guy (Davis?) Was a real burner.
I was surprised at how many long runs they got between the tackles. Maybe due to OL splits plus the defense had to respect the passing game. Bodes well for Ship and Mafah.
I'm excited to see our new offense. I see a lot of screens to our backs & tight ends. Williams and Collins should excel. Which of our outside WRs steps up?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4723]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2346
Joined: 1/9/07
|
Re: Comparing TCU/Clemson offensive personnel
1
Jan 21, 2023, 11:54 AM
|
|
I totally agree with your assessments. Last night I watched a Youtube video of the Clemson 2016 season. After watching, it is obvious that the only glaring difference in today's team and that team was at WR. My goodness it was fun watching Mike Williams, Cain, Artavis, Renfro,Leggitt, ..........all future NFL players. Other than WR, there was very little difference between the 2 teams, then & now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 26
| visibility 1
|
|
|
50
