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All-In [42264]
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110%er [9072]
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Glad to see that as no President is above the law.***
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Feb 6, 2024, 4:53 PM
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All-TigerNet [13174]
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Which law?***
Feb 6, 2024, 5:55 PM
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All-In [27184]
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Non-consenual buggery.***
Feb 6, 2024, 7:24 PM
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All-In [27184]
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OF A HORSE.***
Feb 6, 2024, 7:24 PM
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Lot o points [156045]
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Orange Blooded [2026]
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Lot o points [156045]
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See both sides of this one
Feb 6, 2024, 4:55 PM
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so it's a meh-burger to me.
I think immunity should apply if motivations were believed to be in the best interest of the country, but you can't prove purity of intent for actions taken so I'm not sure how it actually could ever apply.
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All-In [42264]
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Re: See both sides of this one
Feb 7, 2024, 8:33 AM
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I agree if the best intentions for the nation, and can think of past examples. But Trump's lawyers response about him having a political opponent assassinated were pretty #### disturbing. These last two administrations, IMO, show that presidents can't have blanket immunity. And maybe even administrations going back further than that.
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Lot o points [156045]
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I dont disagree. Going back a few years,
Feb 7, 2024, 8:36 AM
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In today’s climate I could see this being weaponized against Bush for the Iraq invasion. To this day I think the man thought he was making the right move
I just want us to not get to the point where a President is consulting his personal lawyers over every tough decision he has to make.
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All-In [27184]
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What would Bush be charged with for the invasion?***
Feb 7, 2024, 8:39 AM
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Lot o points [156045]
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The war crimes BS.***
Feb 7, 2024, 8:43 AM
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All-In [27184]
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Is that a federal offense?
Feb 7, 2024, 8:46 AM
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My point is, the fears of this being weaponized are overblown mainly because there is so much illegal or gray area stuff that Trump did, which were very specific crimes, that had little to do with his actual duties. I do not think this would really apply to any other Presidents. Even if you found a prosecutor to take up a "war crimes" trial in federal court, it wouldn't get past summary judgment unless this was an episode of Boston Legal.
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Lot o points [156045]
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Dont get in the weeds on the war crimes.
Feb 7, 2024, 8:52 AM
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Larger point is that the gloves are 100% off, like I’ve never seen before, and precedent rapidly becomes common practice now. This is not a defense of Trump. If he did something illegal, fine, but the final step for addressing a President’s legal indiscretions used to be impeachment. If we are going after them now post-term, it will become SOP.
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All-In [27184]
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But what is he getting pursued for that's objectively related to his duties?
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Feb 7, 2024, 8:57 AM
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The Stormy money isn't. The fake electors aren't. Failure to turn over documents aren't. His financial fraud isn't. Those were all 100% avoidable offenses that he committed because he believed himself to be above the law when it came to protecting his own skin, which is exactly why prosecution is warranted and immunity would be inappropriate.
Trump is going to be the high water mark for any potential prosecutorial abuse, and I just don't see it happening here. Nobody will be going after Biden after he's done, no matter how much blustering there is from the GOP.
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CU Guru [1515]
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Re: Dont get in the weeds on the war crimes.
Feb 7, 2024, 9:01 AM
[ in reply to Dont get in the weeds on the war crimes. ] |
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So was impeachment the final step for addressing Nixon’s legal indiscretions or was it the pardon that protected him from being charged?
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Lot o points [156045]
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Fair question. Im not sure.***
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Feb 7, 2024, 9:45 AM
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All-In [42264]
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I don't like the potential precedent...
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Feb 7, 2024, 9:42 AM
[ in reply to Dont get in the weeds on the war crimes. ] |
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Of each party trying to prosecute the outgoing president every time. We all know where that leads.
But with Trump, it HAS to be done. There's too much there and too great of a risk not to hold him accountable. The claims of a witch hunt are BS. Trump had no respect for the law and thought (even well before he was president) he could get away with anything he wants. He must be prosecuted for the good of America.
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Lot o points [156045]
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We discussed just yesterday your dislike
Feb 7, 2024, 9:52 AM
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Of things being done for politically expedient reasons.
Do you believe that any of these charges would have been brought to trial if Trump had declared no intention to run again after 2020 and just blended into the woodwork?
Similar to your stance on those against the border bill, I’d wager that the majority of those prosecuting him actually GAF about the “good of America” as much as they just don’t want him on the ballot against Biden.
If I thought every one of these charges would have gone down the same way in the same timeframes that they have if he hadn’t been in the race this go round, I’d feel a lot better about actual motivations.
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All-In [42264]
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Yes and no, depending on the case
Feb 7, 2024, 10:59 AM
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-For the classified documents, yes, he absolutely would still be tried.
-For Jan. 6 and Georgia, no, because if he had just faded away and accepted the loss, these incidents wouldn't have happened.
It doesn't have anything to do with him intending to run again. They'd still go after him even if he wasn't.
I’d wager that the majority of those prosecuting him actually GAF about the “good of America” as much as they just don’t want him on the ballot against Biden.
That's assuming a lot, particularly in the GA case. What some of y'all are asking if for them to not do their jobs when they have evidence of a crime being committed. They're not taking these to trial if they don't have a case.
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All-In [31520]
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Re: Federal court rules no immunity for Trump
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Feb 6, 2024, 4:56 PM
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I’m going to go find my favorite comment from the gateway pundit article about this, hold on BRB
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All-In [31520]
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That didnt take long, wont be possible to top this one
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Feb 6, 2024, 4:59 PM
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THE FINAL RULING: Don't be distressed and disheartened by the woefully erroneous ruling President Trump 45-46, or your family, close allies and 150 plus legal voters; all those with the mark/666 of the beast/Antichrist who colluded, conspired and coordinated to level all the false slanders, false accusations, false civil suits and false charges against you, your family, close allies and 150 plus million legal voters won't be immune from prosecution on the judgment seat of God, Jesus the Christ either, wherein at God's exact appointed time they will be placed naked and afraid on the judgment of God, Jesus the Christ, wherein their every idle thought, word and deed will be judged against the backdrop of God's holy righteousness, based on his holy justice, after which time they will weep and gnash their teeth for eternity under God's holy wrath in utter loneliness and darkness in direct proportion to the exact number of sins and the magnitude of each sin they committed in their earthly existence.
THERE IS A WAY THAT SEEMS RIGHT TO UNREPENTANT MAN, BUT IN THE END LEADS TO DEATH: Then in their anguish and torment they may ask themselves over and over for eternity was saving their "our Democracy" from the constitutionally required Make America Great Again, Make America First Again righteous agenda worth the price an eternity of weeping and gnashing their teeth. Unrepentant, I beg you for your sake, please repent, your/the end is very, very, very near...
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Oculus Spirit [81129]
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I don't know what all that even means
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Feb 6, 2024, 5:05 PM
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Looks like bible vomit soup. All it needs it some begats.
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Orange Blooded [3522]
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Re: I don't know what all that even means
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Feb 6, 2024, 5:19 PM
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We had a begat with our soup last night.
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Orange Blooded [3522]
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All-In [27184]
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110%er [7163]
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Appeals Ct ruling appears to have whiffed re: premise of Trumps argument
Feb 6, 2024, 5:56 PM
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Here is why SCOTUS will agree to Team Trump’s pending appeal of this single aspect of the J6 case.
First, a C&P from the last two paragraphs of the BBC article, with the second of those paragraphs containing a quote from the Appeals Court:
“The argument from Mr Trump's lawyers hinged on the idea that a president who is not convicted for impeachment by Congress cannot be subject to criminal proceedings. Mr Trump, they noted, was impeached by the House of Representatives but never convicted by the Senate. In Tuesday's ruling, the judges wrote that interpretation "still would leave a president free to commit all manner of crimes with impunity, so long as he is not impeached and convicted.”
Trump’s argument for limited immunity pertains to presidential acts which took place while a president is still in office, I.e., before the next president gets inaugurated. This limited presidential immunity pertains to acts within the ‘outer perimeter’ of presidential duties. Election integrity, or the apparent lack thereof, is arguably within the concerns of a president … which was what Trump still was on J6.
The Appeals Court sentence, at least the one quoted in the BBC article, ruled that a president who is no longer in power, cannot ‘commit’ crimes and still be covered by presidential limited immunity. “Commit” seems to imply that Trump is arguing for immunity for any crimes that he commits AFTER he had left office. That is not what Team Trump was seeking; he is seeking limited immunity for any acts that took place while he was in office, so long as those acts were within the ‘outer perimeter’ of presidential duties.
The Appeals Court, in particular Judge Janet Pan (a Biden appointee), had questioned Trump’s lawyers whether Trump should have gotten presidential immunity if he had ordered ‘Seal Team 6 to kill his political opponents.’ That absurd argument provides an example of presidential behavior that is clearly outside the outer perimeter of presidential duties. Judge Pan’s question deliberately conflated “absolute” immunity with “limited” immunity. The final sentence of the BBC article implies that the Appeals Court ruling was based on grounds of denying “absolute” immunity.
Regardless of what whack job MSNBC legal opinion contributor Neal Katyal says, this Appeals Court ruling is an easy one for SCOTUS to overturn. The Appeals Court did not even grasp the core premise at hand when making their ruling.
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Orange Blooded [3522]
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Re: Appeals Ct ruling appears to have whiffed re: premise of Trumps argument
Feb 6, 2024, 6:36 PM
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It will be interesting…if you recall, Trump was impeached after leaving office. The primary reason that additional Republican Senators did not vote to convict was based on their assertion that they lacked jurisdiction to try a former President. Now, this could also be an excuse to cover their #####…but either way, let’s not pretend the vote not to convict was because they didn’t think he deserved it. I think they thought, Trump would realize his luck and disappear…the cowards should have done their jobs so the country could move on.
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110%er [7163]
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Re: Appeals Ct ruling appears to have whiffed re: premise of Trumps argument
Feb 7, 2024, 2:24 PM
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Actually, the impeachment of Trump by the House of Representatives took place on Jan. 13, 2021. The impeachment is analogous to an indictment. Thus, in effect, Trump was indicted (I.e., charged) while he was still in office.
The actual impeachment trial (I.e., the Senate part to judge in the merits of the ‘indictment’) occurred in Feb. 2021.
Even though the final verdict didn’t take place until after Trump left office, that didn’t negate the fact that Trump was ‘accused’ before he left office.
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Orange Blooded [4805]
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Re: Appeals Ct ruling appears to have whiffed re: premise of Trumps argument
Feb 6, 2024, 6:36 PM
[ in reply to Appeals Ct ruling appears to have whiffed re: premise of Trumps argument ] |
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Yeah but the left wing kooks took that one terrible hypothetical from the judge and jerked off to it for days. Got to admit the left knows exactly how to get their illiterate trash supporters excited.
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Orange Blooded [3522]
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Re: Appeals Ct ruling appears to have whiffed re: premise of Trumps argument
Feb 6, 2024, 6:45 PM
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You have absolutely zero self-awareness.
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Standout [313]
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All-TigerNet [13174]
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I think Trump should ignore this ruling and claim immunity anyway.
Feb 6, 2024, 7:07 PM
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Just as Biden ignored SCOTUS and paid off personal loans with taxpayer funds.
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Heisman Winner [111881]
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I am tired of all of this winning.***
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Feb 6, 2024, 9:18 PM
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110%er [7163]
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Re: I am tired of all of this winning.***
Feb 7, 2024, 2:26 PM
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Cycling in, baby!
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All-In [47795]
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HHEEEELLLLLLOOOO,
Feb 6, 2024, 10:09 PM
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SCOTUS. See you soon.
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