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Athletic Dir [865]
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Dead ball foul
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Sep 5, 2023, 1:57 PM
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I wonder if last night's debacle with Klubnic's NIL slide will result in changing the definition of a dead ball foul to a foul that happens after the motion of play activity is over.
I suppose the call would have been the same if it was a late hit if he had gone out of bounds before the first down. I can see perhaps defining a dead ball foul as something that happens after the whistle is blown. No whistle and it is not a dead ball sort of thing. Had it been 3rd down it would have been a 15 yarder so it happens on 4th and nothing?
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All-In [29036]
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Happens every now and then
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Sep 5, 2023, 2:02 PM
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On a 4th down theres a late hit and the fans and commentators get confused as to why the ball was still turned over on downs.
It's fairly simple, a late hit can only happen after the play is over. If the play is over then the result of the play stands (prior to then enforcing the yardage).
You see the same concept on post play personal fouls on the offense after they get a first down. The play is over and the first down is achieved and granted. Then the yardage penalty is applied, but it is still 1st and 10 from the new position.
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CU Guru [1266]
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Re: Happens every now and then
Sep 5, 2023, 2:13 PM
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In calling penalties, certain things are concrete such as out of bounds, scores, field goals and turn overs on downs. Many others are much more subjective such as holding or even targeting. Once Cade began his slide, he was down, the play was over and he failed to make the 1st down. Those are all absolutes without question. The refs made the proper call as much as we would have liked to have seen it go the other way.
Unfortunately, in this situation, a rule that was meant to protect the player, worked as it should have, just not to our favor.
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Legend [16930]
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Re: Happens every now and then
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Sep 5, 2023, 2:22 PM
[ in reply to Happens every now and then ] |
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It’s not confusion. It’s a misapplication of the rule that needs clarifying. If the rule was 15 yards then yes, the dead ball should apply and back the other team up. But targeting is 15 yard AND an automatic first down. So, applying the dead ball rule to a targeting play negates half of the stated rule enforcement. If you’re targeted on 3rd and 50 you get a first down. But on 4th down you surrender the ball to other side? It is not the intent of the rule.
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110%er [7497]
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they called it correctly but it doesn't seem right but not
Sep 5, 2023, 2:28 PM
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sure the correct answer because there are inconsistencies with similar. For example, roughing the passer on 4th down is considered a live ball foul even if the play is over and the offense keeps possession with an automatic first down.
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Athletic Dir [865]
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Re: Happens every now and then
Sep 19, 2022, 9:26 AM
[ in reply to Happens every now and then ] |
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Oh I agree the call was a proper call according to the rules. I was conjecturing on whether they might reassess the rule as to what actually defines a dead ball foul for next year. Especially when targeting is involved. As it is the way it went down took most of the sting out of the targeting penalty.
You know it's not good when the player thrown out of the game fist pumps the result of the call.
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Athletic Dir [865]
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Re: Happens every now and then
Sep 5, 2023, 3:33 PM
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I mean if the guy had hit Klubnic 1/10th of a second earlier it would have been a first down. Seems a ridiculous level of parsing the action of the play. A case of being too technical in my mind. I doubt it would have changed the outcome of the game they way we were playing so that is not my beef.
I think there such plays should be play-action foul even if he is down because there was no chance of the official or anyone else calling the play dead.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Dead ball foul
Sep 5, 2023, 2:24 PM
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I wonder if last night's debacle with Klubnic's NIL slide will result in changing the definition of a dead ball foul to a foul that happens after the motion of play activity is over.
I suppose the call would have been the same if it was a late hit if he had gone out of bounds before the first down. I can see perhaps defining a dead ball foul as something that happens after the whistle is blown. No whistle and it is not a dead ball sort of thing. Had it been 3rd down it would have been a 15 yarder so it happens on 4th and nothing?
It’s a 15 yrd penalty and automatic first down in NFL. End of discussion.
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Tiger Cub [13]
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Re: Dead ball foul
Sep 5, 2023, 3:38 PM
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I’m sure it will get revisited but we have nobody to blame but ourselves. The rule says when a player starts to slide the play is dead. Cade was hit after he started to slide. It’s a massive gray area in the rule that was probably never discussed because nobody in their right mind would voluntarily slide short on fourth down when it would result in voluntarily turning the ball over. Well, other than a QB coached by this staff.
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