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CU Medallion [65528]
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Here are some facts on Transfer Portal teams, not all is
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Oct 16, 2023, 12:45 PM
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sunshine and roses, despite what Portal Athletic Supporters would have you believe.
From a 1 to 133 ranking of all FBS teams after Week Six, with the number of Portal players on their rosters, I picked just Power Five teams:
Virginia, No. 105, 9 transfers
Stanford, No. 104, 7 transfers
Vanderbilt, No. 101, 7 transfers
Indiana, No. 97, 24 transfers
Pitt, No. 96, 9 transfers
Arizona State, No. 95, 33 transfers
Minnesota, No. 92, 11 transfers
Northwestern, No. 91, 6 transfers
Virginia Tech, No. 90, 8 transfers
Baylor, No. 88, 14 transfers
So, the lower end of things is also populated with schools that used the Transfer Portal, a LOT in some cases. Now, to the upper end:
Georgia, No. 1, 3 transfers
Oklahoma, No. 2, 20 transfers
FSU, No. 3, 14 transfers
Ohio State, No. 4, 10 transfers
Texas, No. 5, 5 transfers
Washington, No. 6, 10 transfers
Penn State, No. 7, 8 transfers
Michigan, No. 8, 10 transfers
Oregon, No. 9, 16 transfers
Alabama, No. 10, 5 transfers.
Note that this list ONLY includes transfers that are new to these programs for 2023. But, looking at the list, I don't infer any "success ratio" to be ascribed to the number of transfers, the Top 10 and the BOTTOM of the list are pretty similar in that regard. What that listing DOESN'T tell you, and what will never be public knowledge, is the amounts of NIL money that are being funneled to the recruits from the Portal. I wish it did, because I have a strong feeling that that information would stop a lot of the tongues that are wagging about why CLEMSON is not getting Portal players. And, notice I said not GETTING, not GOING AFTER.
Dabo, rightly so, is not going to come out in public and say, "We went after this guy, got outbid, went after THAT guy, got outbid." He won't say that, because it gains him nothing to dispense that information. But, that is the reality. People harp about Dabo's $10 Mil annual salary, but the sad reality is, if we were to successfully compete in the Portal, we would have to spend in EXCESS of that amount EVERY year, trying to bring in these paid mercenaries.
Stories are widely circulating about how some top HIGH SCHOOL recruits are wanting FIVE GRAND just to come for an official visit! And, as I have postulated many times before, whatever bidding wars there are for Portal talent have mostly already been waged and won BEFORE the individual's name ever officially even LANDS in the Portal. Landing spot already known, contracts drawn up, you better believe it. That is called Tampering, and it is illegal, and it is what it would take for Clemson to be competitive in the Portal for High Dollar Talent.
Now, Dabo is not stupid. He knows what the Back Channel networks are, and they are beyond the control of the NCAA, even if they suddenly grew a set of balls and tried to rein in the Wild Wild West that they unleashed with the Transfer, No Sit Out a Year rule change they made a few years back. If you think Dabo is not trying to avail himself of those options, you are naive. So, if we are NOT being successful, it is because of the economic reality of our booster base, which is not NEARLY as big, or well funded, as just about every other major football power.
The reality is, Clemson has always been the Mouse that Roared, when it comes to major college football success. But, NIL is tilting that balance away from us being able to sustain it long term, along with the economic shortfall that remaining in the ACC will bring going forward. The chips are stacked against us, so if those who protest so loudly about us not using the Portal want us to succeed, they will have to step up in such a way that their WALLETS speak that success into existence, not their voices.
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Athletic Dir [884]
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CU Medallion [65528]
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I doubt A&M thinks they are getting their moneys worth,
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Oct 16, 2023, 12:56 PM
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from either NIL OR from Bimbo Fisher. I suspect that Big Oil money is about ready to pony up his buyout, if not this year, then certainly after next year, unless results improve in a Natty type of way.
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110%er [5512]
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Hall of Famer [22811]
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Yay, finally some specifics
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Oct 16, 2023, 1:03 PM
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instead of just the same old rhetoric that we need transfers because good teams are doing it and other general statements without other info like who and how.
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All-In [32731]
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Re: Yay, finally some specifics
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Oct 16, 2023, 1:13 PM
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Congratulations on 15,000 TUs.
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All-In [44054]
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We don't need transfer portal players because good teams
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Oct 16, 2023, 2:03 PM
[ in reply to Yay, finally some specifics ] |
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are doing it.
We need them because we clearly haven't developed the raw talent we have very well.
If we had, we wouldn't have been blown out by Tennessee or Duke, and we wouldn't struggle with teams like Wake Forest.
If you can't see the necessity in plugging holes with players from the portal to address our weaknesses, I don't know what to tell you.
Or we can keep refusing to use the portal and continue exclusively going the player development route. As they say, how's that working out for ya?
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CU Medallion [55430]
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Re: We don't need transfer portal players because good teams
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Oct 16, 2023, 2:30 PM
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Just as I've been saying, Dabo dropped the ball with all those coaching hires that barely had a any coaching experience, and very little to no coaching experience on a power 5 FB team!!!! All the talent in the world don't help no more than the developing they got at the HS level, and that is what it is with the most of our coaching staff!!! Changes within our coaching staff has to be changed, and if it's not, we will continue to see exactly what we've been looking at for the past 3 seasons...
I don't enjoy saying it, but it's the truth that Dabo made the biggest mistake of his HC-ing career with some of the hires he's made since Jeff Scott, Venables, Elliott left, and the position coaches that went with them. I would bet that all three of those X Clemson coaches hired coaches with more experience than what we got to replace them....
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Legend [16917]
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Legend [16158]
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What does that even mean?***
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Oct 16, 2023, 4:32 PM
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Legend [16917]
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Derp***
Oct 16, 2023, 6:08 PM
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All-TigerNet [10934]
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Re: We don't need transfer portal players because good teams
Oct 16, 2023, 7:01 PM
[ in reply to We don't need transfer portal players because good teams ] |
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If you can't afford them, they are not obtainable. The players have already committed to the money before they are even seen in the portal. Agents are working with non-university money to work the deal first. It's not difficult to understand. Do you need a picture or will a flow chart work better?
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Legend [17781]
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Summary: good teams typically get good transfers and bad teams bad ones?***
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Oct 16, 2023, 1:19 PM
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Legend [19586]
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Bingo***
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Oct 16, 2023, 1:20 PM
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Hall of Famer [22811]
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Legend [19950]
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Re: Or some of both like much hyped Colorado at 4-3***
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Oct 16, 2023, 1:37 PM
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Colorado has already quadrupled their win total from last year. It's hard to say their portal experiment hasn't been a success. They might only have 1 loss right now if Deion was a better coach.
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Hall of Famer [22811]
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51 of their 85 scholarship players are transfers
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Oct 16, 2023, 2:01 PM
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that's 60%, 2+ teams of starters. If 4-3 was the intent of this, then it was a success. And they could also be 3-4 as the game with Colorado State went double overtime.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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They could also be 5-2 if they hadn't lost in OT
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Oct 16, 2023, 2:20 PM
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I'm not going to praise Deion for running off the majority of the roster he inherited - there's just a ruthlessness there that doesn't jive with my personality - but it has been an interesting experiment to watch, and i do think it has succeeded beyond most reasonable expectations. He took over a football team that was the worst in the P5 and one of the worst in all of the FBS. I honestly expected them to win 2 or 3 games this year, not be in solid contention for a bowl after 7 games.
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All-In [44054]
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Transfer portal players have helped Colorado significantly.
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Oct 16, 2023, 2:05 PM
[ in reply to Or some of both like much hyped Colorado at 4-3*** ] |
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They've already won four times as many games as they did last year.
If you're arguing against the portal, Colorado is not an example you should be using.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: Transfer portal players have helped Colorado significantly.
Oct 16, 2023, 2:30 PM
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Actually, it is a pretty good argument, since they are 4-3, and 10th in the Pac 12.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Where would they be if they had run it back with the
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Oct 16, 2023, 2:34 PM
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original roster? They went 1-11 last year and the one win was in OT against Cal. What kind of record would they need to have right now for you to consider it a success?
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: Where would they be if they had run it back with the
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Oct 16, 2023, 2:36 PM
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Better than 10th in the Pac 12.
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110%er [5512]
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Re: Where would they be if they had run it back with the
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Oct 16, 2023, 3:10 PM
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I'm not a portal pumper, but saying that Colorado's turnaround is not a success is ridiculous. They won ONE GAME last year, and it was well reported that the skillset on the roster was awful. Deion did what he thought he had to do to turn the roster over and get a "cortisone shot" of talent, and they've already won 4 games.
Two of those losses are by 1 score to ranked USC and in 2OT to a (bad) Stanford team.
They played several games without their best player (a top national player, top 10 NFL prospect).
Would Colorado's plan work elsewhere? No, probably not. And, it won't win them a conference or get them to the CFP, either. But it was the jump-start they required, and Deion will certainly have success in traditional recruiting going forward.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: Where would they be if they had run it back with the
Oct 16, 2023, 4:08 PM
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Colorado's plan working, or not working, elsewhere is all that matters. Once you acknowledged that their plan wouldn't work elsewhere, and won't get them a conference championship or playoff spot, that's the end of the argument.
Also, Sanders will not "certainly" have success in traditional recruiting going forward. There is nothing "certain" about it.
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110%er [5512]
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Re: Where would they be if they had run it back with the
Oct 16, 2023, 4:12 PM
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What argument? I'm not making an argument for or against the portal. But, I am stating that Colorado's usage of the portal has been successful.
And Deion has already been successful recruiting. If you can't read the audience here and the huge following and respect he already has, you aren't paying attention.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: Where would they be if they had run it back with the
Oct 16, 2023, 4:28 PM
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I'm not arguing for or against the use of the portal. However, the issue is about Clemson's use of the portal. What Colorado did in the portal is irrelevant. Nothing Colorado did would make Clemson a championship contender, and that's all that matters.
I'm paying attention. When he makes the playoffs, let me know. Him going 6-6 or 9-3 impresses me zero.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Yes, Colorado's use of the portal is completely
Oct 17, 2023, 10:56 AM
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irrelevant to Clemson because we would not and should not ever use the portal in the fashion that Deion did this year. But that hasn't stopped certain posters here from inexplicably using Colorado as evidence that Clemson shouldn't be taking any transfers.
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All-TigerNet [10934]
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Re: Where would they be if they had run it back with the
Oct 17, 2023, 2:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: Where would they be if they had run it back with the ] |
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The jury is still out on Colorado's success. When they win 10 games a year for 10+ years, make the CFP consistently and win a Natty or 2, then it will be successful.
IMO, by using the portal, Colorado will not have the base or depth to really compete. Who can they recruit that will show up knowing the next year they may be kicked to the curb for a transfer?
Colorado only has so much NIL money and if they only win 5 to 7 games (they'll be lucky to win 6) this year, Dieon will have one more year to make the CFP with 12 teams. If he doesn't, the money will start drying up, the transfers will transfer and its back to 1 win seasons.
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CU Guru [1577]
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Re: Transfer portal players have helped Colorado significantly.
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Oct 16, 2023, 6:30 PM
[ in reply to Transfer portal players have helped Colorado significantly. ] |
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Well, the coots went 0-11 in 1999 and then 8-4 with an outback bowl win over Ohio state the following season without a portal. That’s infinitely better, not just four times better.
How do we know Colorado couldn’t have done the same if they wouldn’t have used the portal?
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CU Guru [1687]
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Re: Here are some facts on Transfer Portal teams, not all is
Oct 16, 2023, 1:33 PM
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The general common denominator in large swaths of portal players is coaching changes. See FSU, OK, USC, TX, OR, WA, CO.
Now, we should look for a couple each year and figure out how to not tamper by saying things publicly like "we are looking to the portal for WR and OL depth next year" so that kids reach out to us and we should hold a couple of scholarships for the portal vs HS.
I truly believe the biggest issue we had was the COVID rules around recruiting where some kids didn't play their junior/senior year of HS and we couldn't evaluate in person at camps/OVs. We've had a TON of injuries at WR and that has impacted depth and performance (Ngata, Collins (both), EJ, Ladsen, JRoss, Beaux, Stellato, Will Taylor, Spector, Adam Randall, Cole/Antonio/Tink this year). Many of those players were 4* or higher, but talent only works if it is healthy (physically and mentally) and both require time to recover. Feeling better about the roster today and what is coming (Wesco would be our 2nd highest all time WR recruit behind Crosby (see mental injury) and ahead of Sammy.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Can you add the average amount of players each......
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Oct 16, 2023, 1:40 PM
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of those teams are LOSING to the portal each year?
It would give an idea of the amount of "sudden" voided/vacant scholarships they're needing/wanting to replace each year vs the amount of HS recruits/walk-ons they'd kick the scholarship to the following year.
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Oculus Spirit [93674]
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Re: Can you add the average amount of players each......
Oct 16, 2023, 1:46 PM
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I suspect it will take a few years to get stats and factor them into the evaluation.
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All-In [44054]
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Please give us a break with the tired line that
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Oct 16, 2023, 1:58 PM
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success in the transfer portal requires tons of NIL money. You said:
People harp about Dabo's $10 Mil annual salary, but the sad reality is, if we were to successfully compete in the Portal, we would have to spend in EXCESS of that amount EVERY year, trying to bring in these paid mercenaries.
First of all, such dramatic generalizations about portal players being "paid mercenaries" weakens your flimsy argument even more. The reality is that plenty of players in the transfer portal want a better opportunity. Perhaps they were a star on a lower-level team and want to play a higher level of football. Perhaps they want to be able to receive better coaching and prepare for the NFL. Or perhaps they were in a bad situation on the depth chart and want a better opportunity for playing time. To suggest that all of them, or even most of them, are doing it for money is ridiculous.
Second, if you were correct, and transfer portal success requires so much money, why is literally ever other power 5 program utilizing the portal? Many of those schools have access to far less money than Clemson athletes do.
How do I know? Because we've had multiple football players have significant endorsement deals with national brands, such as Bojangles, Dr. Pepper, Beats by Dre, Rhoback, etc. Many other players have smaller NIL deals that we don't even hear about.
The "poor little old Clemson, we ain't got no money" line is tired. It's not true. If it were true, we wouldn't have players getting substantial NIL deals, nor would we have spent hundreds of millions of dollars on football facilities in recent years, nor would we pay our coaching staff among the highest salaries in college football.
Besides, Clemson isn't paying NIL endorsements, so Dabo's salary has nothing to do with it.
You can keep blaming our failures on NIL and the erosion of the good 'ol days of college football if you like, but the bottom line is that we are, in 2023, significantly more talented than most college football programs. How do I know? Simple, I look at recruiting rankings and preseason predictions. The talent is there. The reason we are losing is because our coaches have failed us. Namely, Dabo has failed us by hiring a bunch of unqualified coaches who can't develop players or put them in positions to succeed. If they could, we wouldn't have had three underachieving teams in a row.
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110%er [5512]
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Re: Please give us a break with the tired line that
Oct 16, 2023, 1:59 PM
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"Second, if you were correct, and transfer portal success requires so much money, why is literally ever other power 5 program utilizing the portal? Many of those schools have access to far less money than Clemson athletes do."
"Utlizing the portal" <> "Portal success"
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110%er [5512]
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Re: Please give us a break with the tired line that
Oct 16, 2023, 2:04 PM
[ in reply to Please give us a break with the tired line that ] |
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"nor would we have spent hundreds of millions of dollars on football facilities in recent years, nor would we pay our coaching staff among the highest salaries in college football."
You can't spend university money on NIL. HTH.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Correct, but some of that donation money can be
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Oct 16, 2023, 2:10 PM
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given instead to an NIL collective. We've been well behind the curve on getting all of that set up.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Grabbing a few players out of the portal every year is
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Oct 16, 2023, 2:02 PM
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not going to cost anywhere near 10mil.
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All-In [44054]
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But dramatic examples are needed
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Oct 16, 2023, 2:10 PM
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to support the ridiculous argument that we shouldn't be using the transfer portal.
The playbook is as follows:
1. Portray everyone in the portal as bad apples/prima donnas/selfish
2. Confidently state that success in the portal requires money to "buy" players.
3. Remind everyone that we are a wholesome program with a wholesome coach, who refuses to use the portal because we don't want attitude problems who are all about the money.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: But dramatic examples are needed
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Oct 16, 2023, 2:12 PM
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There isn't anything wrong with using the portal. The problem is thinking the portal is a magic fix. It isn't.
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All-In [44054]
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I haven't seen anyone here say it's a magic fix.
Oct 16, 2023, 2:16 PM
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But like high school recruiting, doing it effectively is critical.
It's an available avenue we should be using to acquire talent to compensate for players we lose to the portal, players who get injured, or players who don't pan out.
Promoting from within is a nice strategy, but when other companies are plucking experienced talent from other places, you're going to get left behind.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: I haven't seen anyone here say it's a magic fix.
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Oct 16, 2023, 2:35 PM
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Yes, you are saying it's a magic fix. Dabo DID try to get a couple of portal players this year, and was turned down.
I've said this repeatedly. You can't just get any swinging d--- out of the portal to fix our problems. We specifically need NFL-caliber receivers, and we need more than one. Those aren't growing on trees in the portal.
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All-In [44054]
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Oh WOW! Dabo TRIED to use the portal! What a guy!
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Oct 16, 2023, 6:09 PM
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Just stop.
It’s his JOB to not only try to use the portal, but to actually successfully use it. Why? Because his $10.5 million a year is for using any and all legally available avenues to make our team better.
He isn’t doing that currently.
If his heart was in using the portal, he would’ve not only thrown a couple of offers out there to portal guys, but actually gotten some players through the portal who could make a difference for our team.
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CU Medallion [55430]
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Re: I haven't seen anyone here say it's a magic fix.
Oct 16, 2023, 3:23 PM
[ in reply to I haven't seen anyone here say it's a magic fix. ] |
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I agree with you, being that it's there and we should use it especially when we have a season ending injury, or someone gets pisssed and leaves us without enough depth. But I do wish that whoever came up with that idea and made it an open-ended rule, I wish they would get bit on manhood by a baby rattle snake, and the only way to save them would be that it had to be shoved up their stinky hole!!!!
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CU Medallion [55430]
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Re: Here are some facts on Transfer Portal teams, not all is
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Oct 16, 2023, 2:04 PM
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Those are teams that has mostly taken anybody they could get just to have enough players on the roster to play a game. The portal is really not much different than recruiting, just with the portal you can bring in players to replace players that has left for whatever the reason. Plus if they have played any with the team that they left, there is a little bit of film on them playing at the college level....
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All-In [38592]
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paid mercenaries
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Oct 16, 2023, 5:45 PM
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Things are changing, and I don't see it as better for me. One reason I kinda lost interest in the pros is all you get is a team name to pull for as the players rotate every year to a new town.
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Commissioner [993]
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Re: Here are some facts on Transfer Portal teams, not all is
Oct 16, 2023, 6:21 PM
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Red Herring. A better analysis would be a rating of players from each team. My guess is the bottom feeders average is not at the same level as the top teams.
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CU Medallion [65528]
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Wow, a truly Einsteinian revelation there. That is kind of
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Oct 16, 2023, 6:31 PM
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the point. Transfer Portal devotees seem to think it is and endless well of top talent. For the most part, it is no better than what we already have, which is why Dabo doesn't frequent it all that much. The truly top talent in the Portal DOES come at a premium price, or with baggage sometimes. When you consider the number of bodies in the Portal, the true success stories probably run in the less than 5% range.
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All-In [38592]
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the point
Oct 16, 2023, 6:39 PM
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I agree, sorta.
The portal has had some top talent. Talent that can change a team (Florida State, USC, Colorado, ND).
If a college has the $$, a better team can be bought.
Make no mistake, $$$ (no matter how it trickled down) has been a winning force in college football for ever.
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All-TigerNet [10934]
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Re: Here are some facts on Transfer Portal teams, not all is
Oct 16, 2023, 6:53 PM
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+1 for preaching to the choir
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Orange Blooded [2140]
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Re: Here are some facts on Transfer Portal teams, not all is
Oct 16, 2023, 7:26 PM
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The thing that bothers me most about the portal is it sounds oddly similar to the age of junior college players that teams would rely on in the past. Eventually those programs all trended downward as the new short term players didn't pan out. To me the money Eventually dries up on the majority of these portal teams and we eventually get ball to talent development.
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Freshman [10]
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Re: Here are some facts on Transfer Portal teams, not all is
Oct 17, 2023, 10:53 PM
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The thing about recruiting and the transfer portal is it goes both ways. Not only does the school have to want you but the player has to want the school regardless of NIL, although nowadays NIL plays a role. My hope would be that the Colorado experiment is a success. But I hope the takeaway is 50+ kids struggled to find schools that would for one accept their college credits and second allow them to continue playing football. First and foremost would be continuing the education that the majority will actually try to use in the end.
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