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Replies: 61
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CU Guru [1515]
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Fraudster ordered to pay 354 Million
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Feb 16, 2024, 3:03 PM
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Bad few days for Trump!
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Legend [17295]
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This country is a joke!
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Feb 16, 2024, 3:18 PM
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But there seems to be job security for lawyers!
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110%er [7210]
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Good thing he's worth billions so he can afford it.
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Feb 16, 2024, 3:18 PM
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Oh right.
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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Re: Fraudster ordered to pay 354 Million
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Feb 16, 2024, 3:18 PM
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All-In [27151]
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ALINA HABBA IS A HOT ATTORNEY***
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Feb 16, 2024, 3:22 PM
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Heisman Winner [111651]
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She definately had several Lucrative career paths to choose from
Feb 16, 2024, 3:28 PM
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All-In [27151]
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I really hope OF isn't one because I'll go bankrupt.***
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Feb 16, 2024, 3:29 PM
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110%er [7210]
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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Oculus Spirit [97743]
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All-In [34113]
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92 pages, yeesh
Feb 16, 2024, 3:44 PM
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Someone plug it into ChatGPT and make a summary.
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Oculus Spirit [97743]
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Just skip to the end. Like two pages of punishment. All you need to read***
Feb 16, 2024, 3:44 PM
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110%er [7155]
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Re: Just skip to the end. Like two pages of punishment. All you need to read***
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Feb 16, 2024, 9:42 PM
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The key parts are on pages 82 (starting with the section “The Personal Guarantee Interest Rate Differential”) through page 83 (“Old Post Office Profit”).
Combined, the ‘ill-gotten savings’ via the ‘illegally obtained artificially low interest rates’ which were based on misrepresented SFC’s (Statement of Financial Condition) caused lenders to miss out on more profitable business opportunities. Therefore, damages in the amounts from The Personal Guarantee Interest Rate Differential (I.e., $168 MM) -and- Old Post Office (I.e., $127 MM) represent the basis from which the remainder of the overall judgement of $364 MM are derived.
This was based on the expert testimony for the plaintiff (I.e., State of NY) of one single ‘expert.’
Completely missed by the expert and the presiding judge was one enormous factor; one that only an amateur with respect to finance of commercial real estate would overlook: Whether or not the ‘better risk’ missed opportunities for the ‘wronged-by-Trump lenders) would have instead invested in building projects ts that would have been successfully completed. In other words, there was no guarantee that the lending banks, had they invested in other / non-Trump projects, would not have been left holding the bag if the non-Trump projects went into bankruptcy.
(*). State of NY’s amateur financial ‘experts’ whiffed in their complete absence in weighing a critical factor … one that Deutsche Bank spelled out in their testimony for the defense (I.e., Trump): Trump’s development projects have a tremendous track record of being completed on time and under budget.
(*). Deutsche Bank reported that Trump Org’s proven history of using borrowed money effectively made Trump Org an excellent reward vs risk opportunity for the lender.
That, ladies and gentlemen, is why lenders happily loan money to the Trump organization. Also, all SFC’s contain the disclaimer that the lender bears the responsibility of conducting their own due diligence, and to not take any representations as provided in Trump Org’s SFC’s as being anything other than general information. This is not like the financing to build a car dealership or an apartment building. BTW, although the State of NY judgement against Trump Org acknowledged that other developers conduct similar SFC filings as Trump, this is no xcuse to let Trump get away with it.
In other words, selective prosecution. Done poorly.
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CU Guru [1374]
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Re: Just skip to the end. Like two pages of punishment. All you need to read***
Feb 17, 2024, 8:35 AM
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So Trump did nothing wrong? Exactly. He will easily win the appeal.
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110%er [7155]
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Re: Just skip to the end. Like two pages of punishment. All you need to read***
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Feb 17, 2024, 10:08 AM
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Not likely (that Trump will win on appeal, although the NY Appeals Court had [or maybe had], very early in the trial, recommended that ~80% of the charges against Trump be dropped on the grounds of statute of limitations).
As for State of NY Supreme Court, this is likely to reduce the judgement against Trump by a huge amount. Trump will end up paying a few million dollars and having his business license restored in its entirety.
Remember, not a single potential plaintiff had initiated claims against Trump (I.e., claims that had pertained to the eventual $364 MM judgement).
In other words, the judgement against Trump had no victims. Trump’s ‘wrongdoings’ were administrative.
Again, this lawsuit is just another among the numerous LawFare attacks on Trump which the global TDS crowd applaud. America’s TDS crowd (excluding those people who extract lucrative + low risk jobs in the federal bureaucracy / the university system / the public school system / management of companies which thrive as suppliers/vendors to the federal government) are dupes. Useful idiots.
These brainwashed believers that the lawlessness attacks on whistleblowers and the political enemies of the government’s establishment class are a great thing. They are blind to the risk … to themselves … from a government that doesn’t make a sincere effort to fairly apply its own laws.
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CU Guru [1374]
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Re: Just skip to the end. Like two pages of punishment. All you need to read***
Feb 17, 2024, 10:52 AM
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Yeah I read that 80% of the charges were past the statute of limitations. Hard to believe they weren’t initially dropped.
Thanks for your reply.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: Book ......thrown......read up
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Feb 16, 2024, 3:54 PM
[ in reply to Book ......thrown......read up ] |
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The really ironic part was, Trump got the "Trump hating judge" who first threw the book at him and then spanked him with it like a particularly obdurate kid getting his hide tanned because Alina Habba failed to submit the paperwork for a jury trial in time. I do not kid. And yet she's still employed.
Trumpworld, y'all. Only the best people.
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CU Guru [1515]
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Re: Book ......thrown......read up
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Feb 16, 2024, 3:54 PM
[ in reply to Book ......thrown......read up ] |
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Wow this is brutal on page 87 ...
"Refusal to Admit Error
The English poet Alexander Pope (1688-1744) first declared, “To err is human, to forgive is divine.” Defendants apparently are of a different mind. After some four years of investigation and litigation, the only error (“inadvertent,” of course) that they acknowledge is the tripling of the size of the Trump Tower Penthouse, which cannot be gainsaid. Their complete lack of contrition and remorse borders on pathological. They are accused only of inflating asset values to make more money. The documents prove this over and over again. This is a venial sin, not a mortal sin. Defendants did not commit murder or arson. They did not rob a bank at gunpoint. Donald Trump is not Bernard Madoff. Yet, defendants are incapable of admitting the error of their ways. Instead, they adopt a “See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil” posture that the evidence belies.
This Court is not constituted to judge morality; it is constituted to find facts and apply the law. In this particular case, in applying the law to the facts, the Court intends to protect the integrity of the financial marketplace and, thus, the public as a whole. Defendants’ refusal to admit error—indeed, to continue it, according to the Independent Monitor—constrains this Court to conclude that they will engage in it going forward unless judicially restrained.
Indeed, Donald Trump testified that, even today, he does not believe the Trump Organization needed to make any changes based on the facts that came out during this trial."
DAYYYYUM!
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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Who lost money...?***
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Feb 16, 2024, 3:58 PM
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Oculus Spirit [97743]
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Wait until they discover Apple is valued at 200 years of profits.
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Feb 16, 2024, 4:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: Book ......thrown......read up ] |
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Or Tesla, or Amazon, or.....the list is endless of companies "valued" beyond the scope of anything reasonable, given their performance.
Trump got busted playing the same game (in function) that many others use. Like the other day when dawghater thought he trashed a $20,000 barbie doll. Someone listed it on Ebay with that value, and the sucker is the one who pays that to make it that valuable.
And lest we forget Congress, pumping companies with tax dollars after buying their stock, only to dump them later for profits.
I'm in NO WAY defending Trump here, but the judge better be careful pontificating beyond DJT and Company. Trump is a small player in this field.
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110%er [9109]
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But he's the only one running for president
Feb 16, 2024, 4:07 PM
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Bit of a difference. But I agree with you in general.
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Oculus Spirit [97743]
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Maybe he should run for Congress then?
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Feb 16, 2024, 4:21 PM
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EVERYONE, really, overvalues their assets. We all do it when we sell a house, our car, or a collectable. You see it all the time on Pawn Stars. You see it daily in crypto. And that's a playground for the game without limits. If you have enough money, you can manipulate crypto to make massive profits. All you need is money to begin with, and you can multiply it, similar to the game Congress plays, but on steroids.
Here's what you do. You get some computer nerds to write an AI ###### to pump some obscure crypto coin. Make it sound like the next big thing to replace the dollar, or bitcoin. Invent some aspect that makes it unique and useful, something to give it potential. Then run the scripts to post thousands of posts across social media. Maybe tip off a few "journalists" about the coin. As soon as you start pumping out the articles on social media, start buying half-million-dollar chunks of the worthless crypto. People will see the articles, the hype, and see the price jump as your million bucks push the value higher. Every idiot then throws their life savings into the coin, and you sit back and watch the price skyrocket. Then there's a period where everyone pours in, the price skyrockets, then you sell with a 2,000% profit on the couple of million you put in, leaving all the suckers high and dry. This happens ALL THE TIME. And people chase this not knowing it's a scam. You can turn $1 million into $200 million in a day. Hours even.
So Trump values his assets beyond their marketable value. Well, that's perfectly legal. Until someone invests believing his inflated valuation, no harm is done. And when enough people invest, Trumps valuation becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Not defending the guy, but this is more of an attack on our entire financial system.
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All-In [31907]
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Not remotely the same thing...
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Feb 16, 2024, 4:15 PM
[ in reply to Wait until they discover Apple is valued at 200 years of profits. ] |
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inflating a property's value to improve lending positions, etc...is not at all comparable to the price of a stock trading in the free market determining the price of a company.
It's really not even in the same discussion.
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Oculus Spirit [97743]
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It's no different than hiding losses to increase the stock value.
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Feb 16, 2024, 4:30 PM
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The "market" is one massive mental condition, a massive existential crisis really, and nothing new there. You can inflate real estate, stocks, crypto, whatever. It's not the owner's problem if people are willing to pay more than something's worth. That's profit. Capitalism really.
If I have a widget, and I market the widget, and you buy the widget for an inflated value based on your perception of the value, and it's actually worthless, well, that's your fault, not the seller's fault. In fact, the value becomes the value when a sucker falls for something. Trump can have a property that would likely be "valued" at $50 million. He can market it to a bunch of Arab sheiks, and get one of them to pay him $100 million for it. Guess what, it's now "worth" $100 million.
Same thing with stocks. You can have an unprofitable company that makes EV's for years without turning a profit, then turn a small profit, get lots of investment, lots of hype, and lots of suckers buying into it and you have a trillion-dollar company that makes $2, 3, maybe $5 billion in profit a year.
You can invest in mortgage-backed securities. About as "safe" a debt as you can own. EVERYONE pays their mortgage. Then the mortgage lenders can sell crap mortgages to inflate the value of their MBS, and people buy them as an "asset" only to learn the asset was based on crap loans. WHO WENT TO JAIL FOR 2008??????? NO ONE DID.
Going back to my point, sure Trump lied about his asset values. But the judge should be VERY careful in prosecuting Trump. This is why white collar crimes so often go unpunished. There are a LOT of democrats and republicans, of all stripes, exposed to the same prosecution, if anyone was ever inclined to prosecute. A LOT of people.
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Orange Blooded [4790]
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Re: It's no different than hiding losses to increase the stock value.
Feb 16, 2024, 4:38 PM
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That's a lie. Trumps the first person to ever even think about doing thus, certainly the first politician, which is why hes been the only one prosecuted for this kind of thing ever. Get your facts straight and stop with this both sides BS. We all know Trump is a criminal mastermind who is an expert in accounting and real estate law. No need to muddy the water with fancy pants examples and explanations.
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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I just want to know when they're going to prosecute the FED...? They inflate all***
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Feb 16, 2024, 4:43 PM
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Oculus Spirit [97743]
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They are the grand poo-bah. The Master of the system.
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Feb 16, 2024, 5:09 PM
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Untouchable.
I mean Ken Lay and some other Enron dude went to jail when Enron used the SAME accounting techniques the Federal Reserve used in 2009-10 to disappear the toxic debt off the books of those companies "too big to fail". SAME technique Enron used. Farm off bad debt to shell companies to keep the books green and investors pouring money in. Write off those losses and deem the debt repaid. Poof, disappearing act complete.
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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Since 1913...***
Feb 16, 2024, 6:20 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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CU Guru [1374]
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Re: It's no different than hiding losses to increase the stock value.
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Feb 17, 2024, 8:41 AM
[ in reply to Re: It's no different than hiding losses to increase the stock value. ] |
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Are you kidding me? Are you seriously saying he’s the first politician to ever inflate his assets? You’ve lost your ####### mind. He’s being prosecuted because he is an anti establishment, non lifetime politician that came in and wrecked all the crooks in DC. Republicans and democrats hate him. He stands against everything those career politicians are about.
Btw he is winning in all the polls. Michigan, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Texas, Wisconsin, Nevada. All the swing states. He is winning. Get ready. Trump is about to be the next president and I can’t wait to see your heads explode.
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Lot o points [155973]
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You don't get sarcasm, do you?***
Feb 17, 2024, 12:29 PM
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Standout [312]
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Theyre not the smartest bunch***
Feb 17, 2024, 12:34 PM
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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T-Rump was dealing with a limited number of banks and insurance companies.
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Feb 16, 2024, 8:49 PM
[ in reply to Not remotely the same thing... ] |
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Apple stock is being sold to hundreds of thousands of portfolios.
Who has the larger potential impact...? You're correct. It's NOT even in the same discussion.
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Hall of Famer [22393]
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Lara Trump should be a big help on this once she takes over the RNC.
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Feb 16, 2024, 3:32 PM
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Unfortunately, they won't have any money left over to get their candidates elected.
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All-TigerNet [13155]
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I just bought Mar-a-lago for $20M since thats all its worth
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Feb 16, 2024, 4:31 PM
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Selling it tomorrow for $750M.
I wish the trumps would empty every property in NY and fill them with illegals. But alas, they will not.
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110%er [5694]
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Re: Fraudster ordered to pay 354 Million
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Feb 16, 2024, 5:25 PM
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You guys celebrate, but this is no different than Putin deep-sixing the dude in prison. You guys are commies through and through.
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CU Guru [1515]
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Re: Fraudster ordered to pay 354 Million
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Feb 16, 2024, 6:08 PM
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Congerts NC for the dumbest post of the week, it even tops your post opposing interracial commercials! Maybe Cata will add this one to his weekly compilation post. Yep, a fraud being held accountable as a fraud under our civil justice system with all the due process afforded under our system is exactly the same as comrade Putin exterminating an extremely brave person openly opposing his corruption. Wow, just wow!
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All-TigerNet [13155]
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You do realize that NY created this law just for trump, right?
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Feb 16, 2024, 6:11 PM
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Surely you do.
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CU Guru [1515]
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Re: You do realize that NY created this law just for trump, right?
Feb 16, 2024, 6:26 PM
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Even if you think that is true, then Trump could have complied with the "new" law. However, If you want to equate the 2 situations, then let me wipe this Novichok nerve agent on you and I'll check back with you in a little while and see if you still equate the 2 situations. Yeah, didn't think so.
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110%er [7155]
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Re: You do realize that NY created this law just for trump, right?
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Feb 17, 2024, 10:25 AM
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Uh … Trump could not comply with a new law that was passed to address deeds allegedly done in the past. Nor could anyone else.
NY State passed a short duration law in which the statute of limitations for sexual abuse crimes was extended to encompass the date when E.Jean Carroll had claimed that she was attacked by Trump in the Bergdorf’s dressing room. That law was curiously passed when E.Jean Carroll had ‘coincidentally’ found financial supporters to fund the high powered lawyers who were previously unknown to her.
As for the State of NY / Trump ‘overvalued’ assets suit, I think I’m understanding properly … early in the NY district court’s suit … that the NY Appeals Court had agreed with Trump that ~80% of the instances had taken place outside the window of the statutes of limitations.
This is LawFare, pure and simple.
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Legend [18026]
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All-In [27151]
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come on now deweather. you know he just says things.***
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Feb 16, 2024, 8:33 PM
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Legend [18026]
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yeah, my bad.***
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Feb 16, 2024, 8:45 PM
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All-TigerNet [13155]
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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Re: "Due process"...? You must be daft. There's not even any precedents.***
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Feb 16, 2024, 10:34 PM
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Legend [18026]
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All-TigerNet [13155]
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Gets to? Thats an odd thing to say.***
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Feb 16, 2024, 8:17 PM
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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Re: WHO??? His "due process" claim is total BS. Everybody knows it.***
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Feb 16, 2024, 10:34 PM
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110%er [7155]
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Re: Even Erick Erickson is calling you out...
Feb 17, 2024, 10:39 AM
[ in reply to Even Erick Erickson is calling you out... ] |
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Erick Erickson is one of those establishment conservatives who, like Bill Kristol, senses a loss of relevancy if the rise of a populist conservative (I.e., Trump or someone with similar political philosophies to Trump) disrupts the political system that sneaks inside information to him.
Without access to inside information sourced from within the establishment conservative part of the government, Erick Erickson and Bill Kristol lose their relevance and thus risk losing their comfortably compensated livings. To them, Trump in power = 1-888-SukUNow call center job.
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Lot o points [155973]
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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Another pseudo-conservative cog in the machine...***
Feb 17, 2024, 12:40 PM
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All-In [44054]
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I just made the mistake of turning on Faux News.
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Feb 16, 2024, 9:35 PM
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They are so upset at this reprehensible, unjust verdict against Trump.
“This is how republics fall!”
No, having lame presidential candidates like Trump and Biden are how republics fall.
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All-In [42197]
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The tears are delicious
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Feb 17, 2024, 1:56 AM
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What a beautiful display of Trump worshiping butthurt by people who put a despot over the law because they worship him, and how phenomenal it is to watch them cry and anguish when their idiot savior gets slapped with what he deserves.
You’re an amoral imbecile if you defend this little fascist.
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Hall of Famer [24812]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42563
Joined: 7/31/10
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You couldn't be more FAKE. You're as far from conservative as anybody could be.
1
Feb 17, 2024, 2:33 AM
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As to your last sentence, I agree. That judge is a "little fascist".
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110%er [7155]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 9716
Joined: 10/6/21
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Re: The tears are delicious
Feb 17, 2024, 10:44 AM
[ in reply to The tears are delicious ] |
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Another stupid post full of invectives, but clearly no understanding about the legal details other than the final judgement and the false premise upon which the indictment had been built.
In other words, your usual type of post.
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Standout [312]
TigerPulse: 89%
Posts: 671
Joined: 8/3/23
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Nailed it. You, on the other hand, are a real legal eagle.***
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Feb 17, 2024, 12:37 PM
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All-In [42197]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38274
Joined: 11/30/98
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Oh yes, I remember your long winded posts how none of this
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Feb 18, 2024, 6:24 PM
[ in reply to Re: The tears are delicious ] |
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Would stick.
Yet, here we are.
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All-In [27151]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 15705
Joined: 1/26/22
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Well it didn't stick. Except for that false premise.
Feb 18, 2024, 6:31 PM
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If only Habba had contacted him. This thing would have come down like a house of cards.
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Hall of Famer [24113]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12217
Joined: 9/1/14
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Re: Fraudster ordered to pay 354 Million
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Feb 17, 2024, 1:29 PM
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It's odd that this would happen now, given he has been doing business in NYC for at least half a century.
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110%er [5694]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 12169
Joined: 9/28/08
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No a bad few years for the USA
Feb 18, 2024, 9:47 PM
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thanks to idiots like you that voted for Biden.
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