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Orange Blooded [4510]
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I remember the days when going to a bowl
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Oct 17, 2023, 8:40 AM
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meant a successful season Now lose one game and the frontrunners want to fire one of the best coaches ever.
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CU Guru [1754]
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Re: I remember the days when going to a bowl
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Oct 17, 2023, 8:43 AM
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Agreed.
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Oculus Spirit [93691]
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No, it was the second loss that caused all the trouble.
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Oct 17, 2023, 8:44 AM
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Losing to Duke was a quite a blow...
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Orange Blooded [4199]
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Re: No, it was the second loss that caused all the trouble.
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Oct 17, 2023, 10:11 AM
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That’s what Notre Dame, Alabama, Oklahoma and Nebraska said about losing to us!
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110%er [6861]
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Some of you clowns act like we were Vanderbilt before Dabo
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Oct 17, 2023, 8:45 AM
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Just an unimaginably stupid take.
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Orange Blooded [4510]
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I also remember when beating Duke was a reason
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Oct 17, 2023, 8:54 AM
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to celebrate. I have been keeping up since about 1948.
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CU Medallion [51555]
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Beating Duke would be a reason to celebrate right now.***
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Oct 17, 2023, 8:57 AM
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CU Guru [1654]
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Legend [16930]
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Legend [18858]
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Re: I remember the days when going to a bowl
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Oct 17, 2023, 8:57 AM
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You are right. Dabo has spoiled us and we believe what he says. That makes us think we should win them all. At least we are not Gamecocks!! To believe every year we are on the cusp of becoming relevant only to lose and realize the curse is real would be devastating
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Legend [16930]
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Re: I remember the days when going to a bowl
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Oct 17, 2023, 9:07 AM
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If you “believe what he says” you would understand that winning is difficult and should be celebrated not presumed. Instead you focus on “best is the standard,” deliberately misinterpreting it despite Dabo have explicitly explained it. If you think finishing top 4 is the only way to be relevant (and many of you don’t think that’s good enough since you view 2019 and 2020 as disappointments) your expectations are simply unreasonable.
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Legend [18858]
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Re: I remember the days when going to a bowl
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Oct 17, 2023, 10:03 AM
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You misrepresented what I meant. It was not meant to flame Dabo. Just stating we are cheered by his positive attitude
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Legend [16930]
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Re: I remember the days when going to a bowl
Oct 17, 2023, 10:12 AM
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Sorry, thanks for clarification!
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Orange Blooded [4970]
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We have the 2nd highest paid coach in CFB
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Oct 17, 2023, 9:00 AM
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Salaries are higher, IPTAY dues are higher, and now expectations are higher. If you take the money, you either live up to the expectations or face the backlash.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Maybe it's your expectations that need managing?***
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Oct 17, 2023, 9:03 AM
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All-In [44055]
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Do you think that people should be happy
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Oct 17, 2023, 9:40 AM
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missing the playoffs for three straight years, and missing our conference championship game two of those three years, despite having the second-highest paid coach in college football, top 10 recruiting classes, arguably the best facilities in college football, consistent playoff appearances and two national championships in the not-too-distant past?
I just want to make sure we all understand what you feel our expectations should be.
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Legend [16930]
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Re: Do you think that people should be happy
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Oct 17, 2023, 10:04 AM
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Perhaps he should be held to the same standard as the basketball coach. In the 2 1/2 season period you choose to malign, Dabo has yet to lose to an unranked team. Much less a team mathematically ranked so low they would be a division 2 opponent in football and who has never won the equivalent of a bowl game of any kind. Until then your hypocritical complaints hold no validity. Dabo is paid for the value he has created for Clemson and is frankly a bargain. The basketball coach is paid a dramatically higher percentage of his programs operating budget - 38% versus 20% - so should actually be held more directly accountable for performance. If one were trying to make a sincere argument, that is.
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Orange Blooded [2849]
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300 plus Division I schools play basketball
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Oct 17, 2023, 10:20 AM
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Many of those teams have good players. Apples to oranges.
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Orange Blooded [4732]
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Re: 300 plus Division I schools play basketball
Oct 17, 2023, 10:54 AM
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Good point Cobbox. Also, it only takes a few good men. In football, it takes an army! I was watching a Bama game the other day and they dressed all their Staff in crimson windbreakers. I counted 22 on the sideline and have no idea how many were in the booth. I saw somewhere that the Bama football staff was almost 100 people now. Comparing that with what it takes for Drake or Iona or UCONN to build a basketball program is apples & oranges.
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Legend [16930]
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Re: 300 plus Division I schools play basketball
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Oct 17, 2023, 1:48 PM
[ in reply to 300 plus Division I schools play basketball ] |
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I appreciate your reasonable response though I disagree on numerous levels. First, I disagree with the premise that it isn't comparable. I don't believe that just because more teams are designated D1 in basketball that it means they are inherently better in the bottom third of that list than if you were to rank all NCAA DI-III programs. You may also be forgetting that "FCS" is actually Division 1. There are 268 Division 1 football programs. 268 versus 363 probably not the dramatic difference you were imagining. There are 763 total collegiate football programs. Even D3 schools make it into the 80th percentile.
Here's some numbers: https://www.sports-ratings.com/college_football/power-rating-all-divisions.html
Second, even if I compare performance strictly against FBS football and D1 basketball my argument still holds. Morehead State wasn't even the worst loss of the year. Not even the second worst. It was the third worst loss of the year. He lost to NET 228, 269, and 315th worst team. I'm gonna try and give you as favorable a comparison as possible. The college basketball season is 2.4 times longer than so one could argue that whatever we accept in losses in football we should be willing to accept 2.4 times that in basketball. I'm gonna round up these three losses for you by including all three and averaging them. Clemson basketball had a bad loss average of 271 by NCAA Net rankings. The 271 team in division 1 basketball would rank at the 25% percentile. Now, I'm gonna compare that strictly to the 131 teams listed in 2022. That would be the equivalent of the 98th best FCS team. In 2022, that would be 4-8 Navy. This year it would be 3-3 Rice. In the last 5 seasons Clemson football has lost a total of 11 games ranks (1, 1, 3, 5, 6, 8, 12, 17, 22, 30, and 32). The worst loss of Dabo's entire tenure was Syracuse in 2017. They were the 60th best team that year and we still lost. Nearly twice as bad as any loss in the last five years. The equivalent to Brownell's losses last year would be losing to 8-5 Florida International. Dabo's worst loss of his entire tenure was still to a team in the upper half of the 130 FCS teams that year (54th perentile). Brownell lost to a team in the 25th percentile. And he does it all the time.
Third, the standard response to this kind of fact base analysis is a dismissive "college basketball is just like that," "upsets happen in basketball," etc. But I already proved in an earlier post that, relative to his peers in the ACC, Brownell does not lose upset games at a similar pace. His ability to lose to really bad teams is a significant outlier and, once viewing this info, claiming otherwise is just lying.
Clemson under Brad
Average ACC Finish - 7th Average RPI - 84 Average RPI rank - 10 Average Q3+4 Losses - 3.1 Average Q3+4 Losses Rank - 11
How this measures up against League:
Average RPI for teams finishing 7th - 61 Brownell % over RPI by league finish - 38% Average Q3+4 Losses by League - 2.6 Brownell % over average Q3+4 losses - 19% Avg Q3+Q4 by ACC avg Quad 2 teams - 2.3 Brownell % over Q3+4 losses by avg quad 2 teams - 35% Place Deviation for Q3+4 losses versus ACC rank - -4 (worst in the league) Place Deviation for RPI versus ACC rank- -3 (tied worst in league) Average Q3+4 losses by ACC 7th place team (excluding Clemson) - 1 Brownell % over Q3+Q4 losses by ACC Rank - 210%
What we have accustomed ourselves to is not normal.
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Freshman [-79]
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Walk-On [123]
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Legend [16930]
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Legend [17805]
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Successful but disappointing
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Oct 17, 2023, 9:02 AM
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Late 80’s every year we (at least as student fans) had MNC aspirations. Then we would get Puntrooskied or lose a Duke.
Point being ..I don’t know. I never remember being pumped up about the Outback bowl back then but that’s just me
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All-TigerNet [10927]
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Re: I remember the days when going to a bowl
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Oct 17, 2023, 9:04 AM
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Huh? Haven't qualified for a bowl yet. Usually that's a done deal by the middle of October.
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All-In [38205]
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the man making $11.5M/yr set a new bar
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Oct 17, 2023, 9:05 AM
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BEST IS THE STANDARD.
And nobody wants to fire him. Jesustapdancingchrist
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Rock Defender [54]
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Back when head coaches weren't paid
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Oct 17, 2023, 9:08 AM
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150x more than the governor, a bowl game was indeed a good outcome.
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All-In [48407]
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Re: I remember the days when going to a bowl
Oct 17, 2023, 9:16 AM
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Leo, remember those days well. It was the 70s and it was like the cfp is now. Won a natty, then played in big bowls beating Oklahoma. The Danny years. So, starting in the 90s it was no longer acceptable to just make a bowl. Most were demanding we get back to the Danny years, hence the firing of coaches.
So, to your point, playing in the mayo bowls IS and should be unacceptable. Especially starting next year, not being a playoff team will be unacceptable.
Noone wants Dabo fired. This season, much like 2021 would be disappointing but understandable but mediocre has been going on now for 3 years, going on 4. Hence the outrage.
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Orange Blooded [2849]
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Winning 10 games a season is not mediocre
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Oct 17, 2023, 10:17 AM
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Mediocre is 6-6
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CU Medallion [65608]
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When we had our "Undefeated Home Season" in 1974, our
Oct 17, 2023, 9:18 AM
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overall record was 7-4. There were only 11 bowl games around at the time, and our 7-4 record was not good enough to get us an invite into any of them, so we sat home during bowl "season". Quite a difference from now, when there are so many bowls, that even 5-7 teams get considered to fill out some of the least ones.
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Orange Blooded [2727]
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Re: When we had our "Undefeated Home Season" in 1974, our
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Oct 17, 2023, 10:30 AM
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But we d did have our own Pepsi bottle made for the undefeated home season!
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CU Guru [1266]
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Re: I remember the days when going to a bowl
Oct 17, 2023, 9:22 AM
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Who has been a fan long enough to remember the "See you later, we're going to the Gator" bumper stickers? By the way, we didn't always win those bowl games either.
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Orange Blooded [2849]
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Nope. Got crushed in 1977.
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Oct 17, 2023, 10:16 AM
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By a Pitt team that probably could have won the national championship. 75 percent of the stadium was Clemson fans. It was a big deal.
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All-In [44055]
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Was Clemson devoting these resources to the football
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Oct 17, 2023, 9:36 AM
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program then?
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Freshman [-79]
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Brad is the 38th highest paid coach in America.
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Oct 17, 2023, 10:17 AM
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He’s finished above 38th twice in 13 seasons.
That record is broken, and you’re a weaselly loser.
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Legend [16930]
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Associate AD [816]
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Re: I remember the days when going to a bowl
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Oct 17, 2023, 9:42 AM
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meant a successful season Now lose one game and the frontrunners want to fire one of the best coaches ever.
This is much more than one game here or there that so many keep referencing. In the last 10 games against power 5 schools, Clemson is 5-5. Those 5 wins included: Wake Forest, Syracuse, UNC, Miami (5-7 team) and Louisville
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Head Coach [798]
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Re: I remember the days when going to a bowl
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Oct 17, 2023, 10:00 AM
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The whole " But Dabo makes $10M so we should win the Natty every year" is simplistic. The ironic part is that I assume a bunch of the crowd that parrots that line have zero financial stake in how he gets paid. His Salary and the cost to purchase tickets are also driven by macro economic factors that have little to do with Clemson. The tickets cost what they cost because people are willing to pay for them. Compared to paying $200 for a concert ticket, it is not that crazy. Dabo's, as well as Saban's, Kirby's, Harbaugh's and Day's, salary is inflated in part because other schools paid too much for the Mel Tuckers and Jimbo Fishers of the world. Should Dabo not make more than Mel Tucker or even James Franklin ( who has never even won a conference championship)? Even if Dabo did not have 2 National Championships, the number of Conference Championships and 10 win seasons would be better than a ton of coaches who are approaching eight figure a year salaries.
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All-In [44055]
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Please link to a post where someone said
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Oct 17, 2023, 10:15 AM
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that we should win a national championship every year.
Just one. Show us.
To me, it is pretty simple: we pay our head coach more than every other school except for one. We have top 10 recruiting classes every year, sometimes top 5. We have what are considered the best football facilities in the country. We have among the most passionate football fan bases in college football.
We have given Dabo everything he could possibly need or want, as an administration and as a fan base. He has everything in place to win at a high level. We know this because he's done it before.
Does this mean that we are supposed to win it all every year? Of course not. But does it mean that we should be in a position to at least contend for the playoffs on a regular basis? Absolutely. We've missed the playoffs the last two years, and will miss them this year too. That's three years in a row. Not only that, but we have not even finished in the top 10 those years, and won't this year either.
In addition, we are 3-4 in our last 7 games against power 5 opponents.
Do you honestly think that our recent performance is acceptable, given all of the above advantages we have?
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Walk-On [123]
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Re: Please link to a post where someone said
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Oct 17, 2023, 10:36 AM
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Ole' Fudge P. Smeller 👍🤣🤣🤣
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Legend [16930]
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Re: Please link to a post where someone said
Oct 17, 2023, 1:59 PM
[ in reply to Please link to a post where someone said ] |
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"contend" for the playoffs? Assuming we would have still won the UNC game we missed the playoffs last year because we lost the last game of the regular season to a surging USC team. "In it" until the last game of the season in a game we lost by 1 point. Against a team we had beaten 7 consecutive times. Tying the longest streak in the 133 year history of the rivalry. Did you really think we'd never lose that game again? So now that you know we absolutely contended last year would you like to reframe your argument.
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Orange Blooded [2849]
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I remember when 7-4 season with no bowl
Oct 17, 2023, 10:14 AM
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was celebrated. Pepsi even made a bottle.
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Orange Blooded [4466]
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Re: I remember the days when going to a bowl
Oct 17, 2023, 1:57 PM
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Don’t worry they are the 1.2% fans that are bandwagoners. As Dabo said we need to lighten the load of the wagon anyway. So long bandwagoners we don’t need your support anyway. You buy a Clemson shirt and pretend a serious tiger fan as long as they are undefeated.
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Replies: 42
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