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Hall of Famer [22637]
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I'm confused about the disdain for Goodwin.
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Oct 29, 2023, 11:12 PM
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6th in the nation in yards per game - 267.
The only teams better than them are Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State (3 teams that have played against horrible offensive teams, except one game against ND), Air Force and Ohio.
Do you want to hire the DC at Air Force or Ohio?
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Oculus Spirit [77317]
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I've seen trolls trash Wes, but nobody else.
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Oct 29, 2023, 11:19 PM
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Wes is a scheme savant, but are players developing or are we still a little "embarrassed with riches" on the D side of the ball.
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Orange Blooded [2861]
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Re: I've seen trolls trash Wes, but nobody else.
Oct 29, 2023, 11:28 PM
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The question for Wes for me is can he motivate and recruit. Does seem to exciting for a recruit to want to come and play for.
These are still Brent’s players. Let’s see what the next few years holds.
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Standout [340]
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Woods, Parker, and Woodaz are players we got under Goodwin
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Oct 29, 2023, 11:44 PM
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and we have some good defenders coming in this year’s recruiting class
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Orange Blooded [2048]
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Re: I've seen trolls trash Wes, but nobody else.
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Oct 30, 2023, 11:10 AM
[ in reply to Re: I've seen trolls trash Wes, but nobody else. ] |
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I can maybe understand the motivation thing, but Wes recruited Jamal Anderson, Dee Crayton, Sammy Brown, TJ Dudley and more and these are just linebackers. Think about the other young studs we have on the defense too, which I'm sure he had a hand in recruiting them. I think he has already proven he can recruit some pretty good players.
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Legend [16938]
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Re: I've seen trolls trash Wes, but nobody else.
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Oct 30, 2023, 7:47 AM
[ in reply to I've seen trolls trash Wes, but nobody else. ] |
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If you dismiss anyone bashing Goodwin as a troll, but there are a lot doing it. And Clemson Twitter is frankly embarrassing and I’m a little more than surprised at how much some TNet owner/editors are contributing. It might be short term gain but if the mob they’re inciting gets their way this place will be a ghost town in a few years.
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Oculus Spirit [77317]
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I've only got T-net as a frame of reference.
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Oct 30, 2023, 8:57 AM
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I don't twatter.
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Legend [17111]
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Re: I've only got T-net as a frame of reference.
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Oct 30, 2023, 11:09 AM
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🤣🤣
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Legend [16938]
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Re: I've only got T-net as a frame of reference.
Oct 31, 2023, 6:57 AM
[ in reply to I've only got T-net as a frame of reference. ] |
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I try to avoid it as much as possible (even before the buyout and rebrand) but it’s also quickly becoming irrelevant. Unfortunately I have semi-professional reasons that I have to check in from time to time. And since it spies on you like most social media apps it likes to serve me up Clemson content that is rage inducing. Which is of course the point - to try and get you to engage - but I don’t. I shouldn’t here either but oh well.
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Legend [18349]
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Re: I've seen trolls trash Wes, but nobody else.
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Oct 30, 2023, 9:01 AM
[ in reply to Re: I've seen trolls trash Wes, but nobody else. ] |
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Oh let’s get one thing straight, the editors of TNET absolutely don’t care about Dabo or the football team. They’ve loved the outrage and have used it to farm clicks/likes. They know exactly what they’re doing and then have the balls to act like little school girls in tbe press conferences.
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110%er [5134]
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Re: I'll Say This.... Venables Painted Our Defense Very Very Well ---
Oct 29, 2023, 11:29 PM
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There is a little peeling starting to happen...I you will. Wes has a chance to fix it and make it better than ever. Wes has to ramp it up recruiting-wise and keep the defense vicious and ferocious like it was before he took over.
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Orange Blooded [4063]
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It is bizarre. Our probs are almost entirely offensive
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Oct 29, 2023, 11:32 PM
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Wes followed the best DC in college football. Who’d wanna do that?
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Commissioner [937]
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Re: I'm confused about the disdain for Goodwin.
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Oct 29, 2023, 11:37 PM
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Same here, he’s followed the best DC in cfb and maintained a somewhat lower but still strong level of play with great scheming in the last two years
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110%er [6177]
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Re: I'm confused about the disdain for Goodwin.
Oct 30, 2023, 9:22 AM
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Somewhat lower? We are 7th in the country in total defense......
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Commissioner [937]
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Re: I'm confused about the disdain for Goodwin.
Oct 30, 2023, 10:03 AM
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right, we’re no longer consistently 4th or better in total defense
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Orange Blooded [4766]
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Re: I'm confused about the disdain for Goodwin.
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Oct 29, 2023, 11:39 PM
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Wes got off on the wrong foot by over thinking things with those soft coverages and the fans got on him pretty hard. I think Dabo got on him, as well and he has tightened it up the past few games. He's growing into the on-field part of the job. Whether he can recruit is still to be seen.
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Standout [340]
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Are you even paying attention to recruiting
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Oct 29, 2023, 11:46 PM
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Woods, Parker, and Woodaz are recruits we brought in under him and we have several highly rated defenders coming in next year. Sammy Brown a LB is a five star recruits
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Scout Team [156]
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Re: Are you even paying attention to recruiting
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Oct 29, 2023, 11:57 PM
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Exactly. I’ve seen too many comments questioning his recruiting skills. All they need do is look at last years and this years classes. Apparently people are just absolutely clueless.
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CU Medallion [55555]
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Re: Are you even paying attention to recruiting
Oct 30, 2023, 1:03 AM
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It's not hard to recruit player that has wanted to be a Tiger for a long time!!!
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Orange Blooded [2351]
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Re: Are you even paying attention to recruiting
Oct 30, 2023, 9:27 AM
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Is it? We almost lost out on Trenton Simpson who wanted to be a tiger because we were recruiting Justin Flowe. DHood said the freshman that killed us saturday wanted to play for us but we didn’t offer.
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Orange Blooded [2055]
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Re: Are you even paying attention to recruiting
Oct 30, 2023, 9:30 AM
[ in reply to Re: Are you even paying attention to recruiting ] |
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Bro, this is isn't 1995 anymore. Or 2005 or even 2015. It is BRUTALLY hard in this NIL, Tik Tok, Instagram world to recruit a 5 star. Grade school loyalties are laughable. It is part of the thinking that got us into this current state.
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All-American [589]
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Re: Are you even paying attention to recruiting
Oct 30, 2023, 7:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: Are you even paying attention to recruiting ] |
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I think less has to do with his recruiting, and more to do with his development of those players. I think he's done fine calling games (does call off blitzes for no reason at times) and would be fine with him staying, but there are some tweaks needed on that side of the ball. I'd be good with getting rid of Hall and Conn. Give Eason the Dline and bring in a true LB coach.
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Orange Blooded [4978]
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Re: Are you even paying attention to recruiting
Oct 30, 2023, 7:55 AM
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Is Conn, Jack Hines 2.0?
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110%er [7510]
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This class was loaded - one of the best we e had
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Oct 30, 2023, 12:34 AM
[ in reply to Are you even paying attention to recruiting ] |
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talent wise. We have outrecruited the upperclassmen left behind - LB is the only exception and we have one of the top LBs in the country committed(along with Woodaz as you mention and a couple other young LBs
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Standout [340]
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The trolls hate him solely because he was a hire from within
Oct 30, 2023, 12:00 AM
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not because of performance, but because they believe hires from within never work even though promoting Tony Elliott and Jeff Scott from within did work.
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CU Medallion [55555]
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Re: The trolls hate him solely because he was a hire from within
Oct 30, 2023, 1:07 AM
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You're naming two people that had been around coaching for a while that gained experience from the coaches they worked under, and with Jeff, he lived with at one time one of the best OC's at FSU in his dad. Jeff has been around coaching his entire life!!!
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Standout [340]
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But according to you he shouldnt have been promoted from within because
Oct 30, 2023, 1:26 AM
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he is a former player and friends with Dabo. That’s your standard in hiring coaches
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Standout [340]
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Orange Blooded [4606]
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Re: The trolls hate him solely because he was a hire from within
Oct 30, 2023, 7:41 AM
[ in reply to The trolls hate him solely because he was a hire from within ] |
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Promoting from within works great sometimes and fails miserably other times.
Hiring from the outside works great sometimes and fails miserably other times.
My issue, if I have one, is that Dabo seems to hire from within where there is NOT a proven track record, at best sometimes a year or two elsewhere (amounting to little more than a rumspringa).
Loyalty to friends is a great thing, but sometimes business has to come first. Dabo has tended to hold on to loyalty a bit too long, but has in the past shown that he can/will make the necessary decision but only after giving his friends every possible chance to turn things around.
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CU Medallion [55555]
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Re: I'm confused about the disdain for Goodwin.
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Oct 30, 2023, 12:59 AM
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It will slip away from Goodwin bc he doesn't have the fire in his belly to be the DC. He is living right now off of the gross amount of talent that BV left behind!!!!
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Standout [340]
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Theres a good amount of young players on the defense
Oct 30, 2023, 1:04 AM
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who weren’t coached by BV that are playing well. But then that goes against your narrative that promoting from within doesn’t work, even though it did worked out great in promoting from within with Tony Elliott and Jeff Scott.
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CU Medallion [55555]
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Re: Theres a good amount of young players on the defense
Oct 30, 2023, 1:09 AM
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Brent coached players are helping Wes to coach up players!!!
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Standout [340]
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You trolls will make up anything to promote your false narratives***
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Oct 30, 2023, 1:27 AM
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Athletic Dir [863]
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Re: I'm confused about the disdain for Goodwin.
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Oct 30, 2023, 6:56 AM
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Miami and FSU had qb issues Duke got there yards and the rest of the teams hardly have a pulse on offense .
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Orange Blooded [4978]
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Re: I'm confused about the disdain for Goodwin.
Oct 30, 2023, 7:57 AM
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How many points did our offense score against those three teams?
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Legend [16207]
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Re: I'm confused about the disdain for Goodwin.
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Oct 30, 2023, 7:03 AM
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It's mostly the result of his first year getting settled in. He's cleaned up some areas that were suspect. I think some of the arm tackling we've seen has gotten blood pressures up. The defense is the last place one should go barking at. The offensive coaching, offensive play calling, lack of individual performance are 99 percent the problem.
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Head Coach [798]
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Re: I'm confused about the disdain for Goodwin.
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Oct 30, 2023, 7:10 AM
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Some posters on TNet have revisionist history. Coach V is an all time great D coordinator with out a question. There has been minimal drop off on defense. There are glaring deficiencies on offense to complain about but that isn’t good enough for some of the football geniuses on this board. They don’t like Goodwin because that is who Dabo hired. Dabo should have gone out and hired a proven D Coordinator. Those dude have no credibility. There are a bust or two every game. They don’t remember that also happened with Venables too. There was more than one occasion that Coach V did. Or even have the defense lined up before the other team hit a big play on us. One of our Championship teams had a whole game against Pitt where we could not defend a shuttle pass. Over and Over again.
The defense is playing well and recruiting well. You can tell who is just a complainer by their perspective on Goodwin.
By the way some of the Goodwin complainers want Dabo to step down so Garrett Riley can be Head Coach. Let that sink in. They want a two time National Championship Coach to step down so the OC of the nations worst offense can take over.
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All-TigerNet [14060]
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Re: I'm confused about the disdain for Goodwin.
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Oct 30, 2023, 7:25 AM
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I agree. Defense has played quite well. The problem has been on offense for 3 years now.
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CU Guru [1113]
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We are a SOFT defense as shown against Miami
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Oct 30, 2023, 7:43 AM
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And ND in last season’s game and I expect to be shown again this Saturday. Stats don’t mean anything. Analytics are for Baseball not football.
In football need the bend not break mentality and to be physical on D. We are far from being a physical D.
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Orange Blooded [4037]
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Agree 100%
Oct 30, 2023, 7:48 AM
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This defense is playing great ball
It's like these “fans” expect a shutout every game
What is even more interesting to me is that our offense is so bad, we haven't really been able to get aggressive on D because we know that the smallest mistake will likely cost us the game
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Orange Blooded [3639]
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Re: I'm confused about the disdain for Goodwin.
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Oct 30, 2023, 7:51 AM
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He doesn’t coach offense .. our offense is well, offensive ..can’t get out of their own way. Putrid Oline, we can’t block..period.
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110%er [5975]
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Agree, bunch of non-football people typing BS
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Oct 30, 2023, 9:04 AM
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It is really hard, impossible actually, for the defense to make a stop when the offense turns it over and allows the other team to score pretty much every single game this season.
The offense turning into defense does not work out so well.
While this defense is different than the BV style, not quite as aggressive, I still think they have played wonderfully this season.
Trotter was awesome Saturday. Carter flashes but has yet to find consistency, Woodazz also flashes but needs consistency. Dline has been good, getting pressure often and also containing opposing QB's. The best QB we faced we had looking confused for most of the game and ended up losing because of turnovers and poor FG kicking...a familiar refrain this season
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Legend [18349]
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Re: I'm confused about the disdain for Goodwin.
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Oct 30, 2023, 9:04 AM
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They don’t understand you can’t be aggressive on defense if you know your offense can’t do anything
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Oculus Spirit [80873]
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We have plenty of problems but defense is not near the top of the list.***
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Oct 30, 2023, 9:19 AM
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All-In [44075]
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I don't think Goodwin is our biggest problem.
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Oct 30, 2023, 9:24 AM
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I'm not sure he will ever be an elite DC, but he's done a good job with the (significant) talent he has at his disposal.
I think time will tell if he's an asset when it comes to recruiting. Venables certainly was.
One concern a lot of people have is that Venables was such a significant part of our success over the past decade. He not only coached an elite defense, but also seemed to energize the program in a way that none of our current coaches do (not even Dabo).
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Legend [19609]
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Re: I'm confused about the disdain for Goodwin.
Oct 30, 2023, 9:31 AM
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The defense needs a fiery almost psychotic leader. He's getting by with BV's guys for now. He's done well but had gotten burned and outcoached at times. Eventually that BV tap will run dry. He's a good dude and smart guy but he flat out does not have the personality and charisma to lead a tenacious D1 defensive unit and certainly should not be coaching Linebackers.
I'd be ok with some scenario where he was retained as co-DC and and not coaching a position unit but that would require double duty by someone.
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CU Guru [1397]
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Re: I'm confused about the disdain for Goodwin.
Oct 30, 2023, 9:35 AM
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Oh look at you trying to bring FACTS to a bunch of lynch party band wagon fools!!!
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110%er [5277]
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People need to leave goodwin out of the discussion.....
Oct 30, 2023, 10:08 AM
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he has a tendency at times to use a prevent or three man rush or drop a corner into deep cushion which ends up hurting him but his defenses play well overall. Any defense can give up a big play or a chunk play or a busted play at any given moment, but ####, a little help from the offense and from a sorry #### kicking/fg team every now and then wouldnt hurt.
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All-TigerNet [12550]
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Same here. I love coach Venables, but 35 vs SC with 2018 and 43 vs Pitt
Oct 30, 2023, 10:22 AM
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with 2016 defense. He was not perfect. I am very pleased with the job coach Goodwin has done. And he's done it with a terrible offense. The d is constantly undr pressure.
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110%er [6108]
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the 2 busted plays per game are annoying
Oct 30, 2023, 11:04 AM
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but we had that w/ BV as well.
My biggest disappoint to date was 4th quarter with Miami - letting them run it down our throat. That pissed me off.
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Commissioner [929]
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Re: I'm confused about the disdain for Goodwin.
Oct 30, 2023, 12:22 PM
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In my view, most of the negativity towards Goodwin has to do with the optics that he projects. I do believe the DNA on the defensive side of the ball is a little different than offensive. On defense, there is usually much more outward emotion and energy, it's just part of the game. I question if Goodwin brings the energy and intensity needed. I think we should play to Goodwin's strengths of scheming and adjusting. Put him up in the box, bring in a high energy/intensity designated LB'er coach that doubles as an in-game sideline coach. Put Eason in charge of the entire DL and move on from Hall.
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110%er [9674]
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There is little disdain for Goodwin amongst the sane. There be lots of
Oct 30, 2023, 12:28 PM
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folks on TNet who just like to beach in case you hadn't noticed. : - )
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All-TigerNet [10352]
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Re: I'm confused about the disdain for Goodwin.
Oct 30, 2023, 12:54 PM
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Wes and the defense is all that has kept this team from getting totally blown out every game.
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110%er [5419]
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Re: I'm confused about the disdain for Goodwin.
Oct 31, 2023, 8:05 AM
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Dabo cannot totally blow up his coaches , so I feel that Goodwin and Company are good for right now. The Clemson defense has played well enough for Clemson to be undefeated.
On the flip side, Dabo needs to let Riley bring in his staff and revamp the offense. I also hope that Kathleen tells Dabo that he needs toughen his skin.
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