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All-In [44102]
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It is frequently said that people here don’t know as much as the football coaches
Dec 12, 2022, 8:53 PM
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so why isn’t that logic also applied to our athletic department?
More specifically, why do many of you think you know more than they do about how to make hiring and firing decisions?
They obviously think Brownell is doing a good job. He’s been here for 13 years and has gotten multiple raises and contract extensions during that time. If Clemson’s leadership felt that they could get someone better for less pay, why would they keep him around?
Of course, they wouldn’t keep him around.
The AD knows that we spend much less on our men’s basketball program than almost every other power 5 school in our conference and region, and sees that we get a good ROI with Brad.
Understanding this will hopefully help some of you with your anger over this topic. At the end of the day, shouldn’t you trust the experts in our athletic department to do the job they are trained to do?
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Trainer [36]
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Argumentum ab auctoritate. Logical fallacy.
Dec 12, 2022, 8:57 PM
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“Appeal to authority is a form of argument in which the opinion of an authority on a topic is used as evidence to support an argument.”
Big fail, Judge.
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All-In [44102]
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It doesn’t seem to be a logical fallacy when it relates to football.
Dec 12, 2022, 9:22 PM
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Trainer [36]
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No one has to defend the decision
Dec 12, 2022, 9:25 PM
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to retain Dabo.
Conference titles and National championships speak for themselves.
You can’t defend Brownell’s salary.
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All-In [44102]
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Is salary for current performance or past performance?
Dec 12, 2022, 9:32 PM
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Brad’s most recent contract extension, inked a little over a year ago, came after we finished 5th in the ACC, had a school record for most regular season wins over NCAA Tournament teams, and made the NCAA Tournament. That was our second NCAA Tournament appearance in three tries.
If Brad’s salary is based on last year only, then I agree we paid him too much.
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All-In [39295]
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Re: Is salary for current performance or past performance?
Dec 12, 2022, 10:13 PM
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I doubt Dabo would make as much if we went to the Mayo Bowl 25% of the time.
Dabo has built a program... that's something that Brownell has not been able to do in 13 years. I supported CBB for the first 10 years, but that's enough. It's obvious he's not going to build a successful program. Time to give someone else a chance.
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Legend [16071]
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Exactly...Everyone supported him for 5-6 years but at this
Dec 13, 2022, 12:40 AM
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point? He's built NOTHING. In well over a DECADE. Its embarrassing he is still here.
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Legend [16071]
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All-In [40855]
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Below .500 in conference play over a span of 13 years
Dec 12, 2022, 8:58 PM
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is exactly what you call not doing a good job.
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Legend [16155]
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Me computing the ROI on Brad...
Dec 12, 2022, 8:59 PM
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All-In [44102]
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I’m not surprised that’s what you came up with.***
Dec 12, 2022, 9:23 PM
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All-In [40128]
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TLDR but Brad has a bad product***
Dec 12, 2022, 9:06 PM
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All-In [44102]
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No, he doesn’t, according to the people who employ him.
Dec 12, 2022, 9:25 PM
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Just because you don’t think he has a good product doesn’t make it so.
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All-In [40128]
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True but he does. That is so.***
Dec 12, 2022, 9:34 PM
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All-In [44102]
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LOL okay.
Dec 12, 2022, 9:49 PM
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.
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Legend [16071]
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110%er [6501]
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Re: It is frequently said that people here don’t know as much as the football coaches
Dec 12, 2022, 9:07 PM
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I have always said that Clemson does not give a rats rear about basketball. That is not my personal feeling, but my observation of the last 50 years.
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All-In [44102]
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I’m optimistic that Neff cares and will fund it accordingly.***
Dec 12, 2022, 9:48 PM
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All-American [583]
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So you're saying there is....
Dec 13, 2022, 12:36 AM
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a coaching search already underway, good to know-
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110%er [5511]
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Re: It is frequently said that people here don’t know as much as the football coaches
Dec 12, 2022, 9:08 PM
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Head troll.
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Hall of Famer [22409]
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Clemson fans would be happy to pay more
Dec 12, 2022, 9:16 PM
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than Brad makes to a new Clemson coach.
Brad is average and deserves to be paid accordingly.
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All-In [44102]
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How is that so?
Dec 12, 2022, 9:28 PM
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Many Clemson fans already complain that we spend “so much” on basketball, not understanding that we spend less than most everyone else in the ACC.
We have a poorly funded product that performs like a moderately funded one. That’s a great ROI from the AD’s perspective.
The hope is that Neff wants to fund it better, but I don’t see the average Clemson fan going for that if they think it might negatively impact football.
It still won’t stop them from griping about basketball though.
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Legend [16071]
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Again...We would pay more for better.***
Dec 13, 2022, 12:42 AM
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Head Coach [752]
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Re: It is frequently said that people here don’t know as much as the football coaches
Dec 12, 2022, 9:19 PM
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They keep him around because Brownell has glimpses of success and a knack for being “One year away
One more year and he’ll have his players in place… one more year and our young guys will buy in… one more year and we’ll get over that hump
In addition to this he’s had short spurts that gives fans hope -
- His initial development of Jennings and Bobo
- The win in Chapel Hill
- The sweet 16 run
This year I can already see this taking shape with a solid group of young players (I really like Godfrey and Wiggins minutes so far) but I’m also just sitting here waiting for the let down… It’s a depressing fan experience
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Orange Blooded [2941]
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Re: It is frequently said that people here don’t know as much as the football coaches
Dec 12, 2022, 9:59 PM
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The new sheriff in the Athletic Dept. wrote to the fanbase last spring saying he intends better results than has been achieved by Brownell recently. If he is true to his word his first change will start with the head coach. I agree if we want better then it will take more than a new staff alone. That’s Neff’s job to figure out. We wait impatiently to see how this plays out.
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All-American [583]
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CU Medallion [58598]
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I don't accept that Clemson basketball, as we know it, as it
Dec 12, 2022, 9:21 PM
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has in fact been all of my life, including under Brownell, is the best we can do. I refuse to accept it. I don't accept that the level of consistent mediocrity that is the hallmark of our basketball history, is unavoidable. Brownell alone may not be the problem, but rightly or wrongly, he has become synonymous with it, and in order for the program to move forward, a new head coach and face of the program will be required and must be included in any fix.
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All-In [44102]
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I absolutely agree that Clemson basketball can be better.
Dec 12, 2022, 9:53 PM
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I believe that our issues are significant, and systemic, and it’s overly simplistic for fans to think a new coach is all that’s needed.
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Legend [16071]
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If nothing else changes than a new coach...
Dec 13, 2022, 12:45 AM
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that wins more games - We have accomplished something.
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Orange Blooded [2535]
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Once more, just for you:
Dec 12, 2022, 9:44 PM
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BB has the absolute best job in America in ANY category.
Makes millions and has excellent job security based on and because of (or in spite of):
1) Sustaining a mediocre P5 program that rarely makes a big tournament, or advances in one.
2) running a clean program and being a super high-character rep of the uni.
3) operating in the shadow of the west zone.
Best job in America!
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All-In [39295]
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Re: It is frequently said that people here don’t know as much as the football coaches
Dec 12, 2022, 10:04 PM
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I can't figure out why they think Brownell is doing a good job either.
It's a mystery.
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Legend [16275]
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Re: It is frequently said that people here don’t know as much as the football coaches
Dec 12, 2022, 10:09 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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For the record
Dec 12, 2022, 10:20 PM
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I dont know nor claim to know what Neff knows.
I only know Neff told donors last week that BB really needs to have a good season.
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CU Guru [1660]
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Re: It is frequently said that people here don’t know as much as the football coaches
Dec 12, 2022, 11:14 PM
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and you would be correct.
that does not mean people cannot be critical of the product being put out. It is entertainment at the end of the day.
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CU Guru [1279]
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Obviously you think Brad is the right coach
Dec 12, 2022, 11:32 PM
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For the tigers. It is fine to have your opinion. I disagree but we can still have a decent conversation.
In my opinion, Brad is an economical nightmare. He earns more than he returns. It’s a simple equation in my mind
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All-American [583]
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Revenue production annually under CBB?****
Dec 13, 2022, 12:31 AM
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All-In [25414]
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Actually, you make valid points, as I've posted previously,
Dec 13, 2022, 5:55 AM
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I don't believe the powers-that-be want to do anything to upset the football gravy train.
They view Coach Brownell as safe, running largely a clean program with an overall rate of success, percentage-wise, comparable to previous coaches. That begs the questions: what are Clemson family pressures for changes and how will the BOT, Admin and AD react?
One of Neff's primary jobs is to build successful programs. How much value does he place on our basketball program and does he regard Coach Brownell as safe?
I can't answer any of those questions, for I have simply been away for over 50 years, spending that time involved in the business world as an owner, consultant, you name it. I do know how the business world reacts. Yet, I understand how there are differences within each worlds, just as there are in the military of which I was a part.
All I can say is that I know our basketball history and believe we should also strive for success in all our athletic programs. Just how we do that is Neff's job...a requirement for initiative and guts!
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All-In [31437]
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Re: Actually, you make valid points, as I've posted previously,
Dec 13, 2022, 6:00 AM
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@Judge Keller in your opinion what steps do you think would have to be taken to at least sniff an NCAA tourney consistently?
Throwing money at problems seldom works. Ask the government. 30 plus trillion in the hole and the country is currently a shizz show.
Message was edited by: rhpltmeg®
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Head Coach [780]
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Re: It is frequently said that people here don’t know as much as the football coaches
Dec 13, 2022, 7:00 AM
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All of us seem to have way too much time on our hands...you be the judge!
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CU Medallion [64621]
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I'll let his record speak for itself...
Dec 13, 2022, 7:53 AM
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At the end of the day his job is to win games and after 12 full seasons, he simply hasn't done that consistently. With only a couple of notable exceptions, his results have been mediocre at best.
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CU Guru [1868]
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maybe they think he’s doing a bad job
Dec 13, 2022, 6:59 PM
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But brad has pics of them cheating on their wives or smuggling drugs or something. Seems more likely somehow
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