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CU Guru [1722]
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Meanwhile, hypocrisy update on FGF.....
Dec 12, 2019, 10:25 PM
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I’ll apologize for even bringing this up, but all the race-baiting comments by the uofsc fans about Tillman Hall gets very old.
The very nickname of their entire sports department is derived from a slave owner. Thomas Sumter the “Carolina Gamecock”.
Cmon people. Glass houses and such.
Message was edited by: Boat Drinks®
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CU Guru [1722]
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Re: Meanwhile, hypocrisy update on FGF.....
Dec 12, 2019, 10:28 PM
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Sorry forgot these
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All-In [40970]
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CU Medallion [55685]
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Re: Meanwhile, hypocrisy update on FGF.....
Dec 12, 2019, 10:39 PM
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That is the way they are, they have learned and perfected believing their own lies to the point that they actually believe what they say bc, there is no way they can say and come up with some of the chit they say, and say it with a straight face, they are good at living in their own little fantacy world and actually believe that it's real!!!
Message was edited by: allorangeallthetime52®
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Hall of Famer [24646]
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Aren't there slave houses/quarters on and around
Dec 12, 2019, 10:51 PM
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U of 6uck's campus?
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CU Medallion [64693]
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Yes, in fact, there are.***
Dec 13, 2019, 8:10 AM
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Starter [362]
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Re: Meanwhile, hypocrisy update on FGF.....
Dec 12, 2019, 11:01 PM
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It's not like they're wrong about the history. Ignore it if it bothers you. Or, lobby to change the name of a building that honors a man who was a violent racist. You don't have to keep something just because it has always been like that. Evolve. Change. Stop pretending it hurts you to do so.
Go ahead and do the rinse repeat of calling me a coot. I'm a proud CU grad, but that doesn't mean that the school does everything right.
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CU Guru [1722]
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Re: Meanwhile, hypocrisy update on FGF.....
Dec 12, 2019, 11:14 PM
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I didn’t say they were wrong, but what good does it do to throw stones at other people when the same thing is also plastered all over their own campus.
You do realize that 75% of the Horseshoe is named after slave owners?
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Starter [362]
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Re: Meanwhile, hypocrisy update on FGF.....
Dec 13, 2019, 3:22 AM
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I didn’t say they were wrong, but what good does it do to throw stones at other people when the same thing is also plastered all over their own campus.
You do realize that 75% of the Horseshoe is named after slave owners?
So? Why are they entitled to be honored?
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All-In [30934]
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In your efforts to rally against all that is unholy.
Dec 13, 2019, 9:16 AM
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You completely missed his point. It is about hypocrisy.. not right and wrong.
If you want to march and preach start your own thread. Go tell the world why the state of Washington should be renamed.
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110%er [6592]
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He is honored cause our Univ may not exist without him
Dec 13, 2019, 10:28 AM
[ in reply to Re: Meanwhile, hypocrisy update on FGF..... ] |
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Period. It has nothing to do with anything other than that he was basically a founding father of Clemson.
Here are a few exerpts from Clemson website:
https://www.clemson.edu/about/history/bios/ben-tillman.html
"Probably due to Tillman’s political prominence and his determined advocacy for agricultural education, Thomas Green Clemson shared with Tillman his plans for willing his estate to the state of South Carolina for the purpose of establishing an agricultural college. In a meeting with Tillman, Richard W. Simpson and Daniel K. Norris at Fort Hill shortly before his death, Clemson shared his plans, seeking the advice and support of the other three men, which they eagerly provided. After Clemson’s death, Tillman helped lead the political fight to have the state accept Clemson’s bequest, and he was appointed by Clemson as one of the original seven successor trustees of Clemson Agricultural College. For the remainder of his life, Tillman was a powerful advocate and supporter of the school, and he was very proud of his role in its development."
One other interesting tidbit concerning SC State University:
As for South Carolina State University, in an unlikely twist, Tillman supported in 1895 the separation of the Agricultural and Mechanics Institution from Claflin College. Black leaders resented the domination of Claflin's white administrators and faculty over the A&M Institute. Robert B. Anderson, a black delegate from Georgetown, demanded that the state break the connection with Claflin. According to historian William C. Hine, former Congressmen Robert Smalls and Thomas E. Miller, “succeeded in persuading the state's most formidable political leader and the convention's presiding officer, U.S. Senator Benjamin Tillman, to support the separation of the Agricultural and Mechanics Institute from Claflin.” As Hine wrote on the centennial of South Carolina State University, “Tillman, for one of the few times in his life, eagerly accommodated black leaders, and proposed a measure to effect the separation of Claflin and the A&M institute.”
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110%er [6592]
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so technically, if people are so offended, they shouldnt
Dec 13, 2019, 10:37 AM
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even attend the school. Changing the name of things doesnt change the fact that the school itself was created partly by slaveholders. Some are willing to eat the fruit of the labor of slaveholders but dont want to give recognition to the slaveholders for their involvement in its creation.
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All-TigerNet [10729]
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Orange Blooded [2182]
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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oh, what the eff.. do the right thing?
Dec 12, 2019, 11:25 PM
[ in reply to Re: Meanwhile, hypocrisy update on FGF..... ] |
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If you took all the slave owners names off buildings in this country there would be A LOT of names erased from history.
Some of these names might have younger generations alive. I bet having their family name on a building means a lot to them. None of them own slaves.
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Starter [362]
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Re: oh, what the eff.. do the right thing?
Dec 13, 2019, 3:28 AM
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If you took all the slave owners names off buildings in this country there would be A LOT of names erased from history.
Some of these names might have younger generations alive. I bet having their family name on a building means a lot to them. None of them own slaves.
Fair point. But why are people with no ties to the name lobbying so hard to keep it? Do you think its plausible they are "just looking out for the younger generations of those families" or they are tired of being told things are extremely offensive in society and they want to fight for their right to offend people? I appreciate your maturity on the topic, it's hard to have adult discussions because you get comments like one of the other ones in this same thread, from someone who would never talk like that to your face.
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Orange Blooded [2044]
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Re: oh, what the eff.. do the right thing?
Dec 13, 2019, 5:50 AM
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If being a slave owner or avowed racist precludes someone from having a building named after them, what other offense, either past or present, rises to that same level? There is no doubt that Ben Tillman was both a slave owner and a racist... racist meaning that he believed whites superior to blacks as he demonstrated in his participation in the Hamburg massacre and statements afterwards.
You can change the name of Tillman Hall back to the Main Hall but it won't bring back Simon Coker. It won't change the 200 years of slave ownership, segregration and all the evil that resulted from these institutions.
If our generation embraces the moral authority attached to renaming a building as a way to right a past wrong will it truly heal the past wounds or is it simply a gesture meant to assuage our feelings in the moment?
Personally, I think the building should be renamed "Gantt Hall" after Harvey Gantt. I think it would approproiate. He has accomplished a lot after his graduation from Clemson. However, it should be renamed for him because of his accomplishments and not the color of his skin or as rebuke of Tillman.
But then again, maybe in 120 years that generation will seize the moral authority and declare the building needs to be renamed because he was an architect... and it is evident to everyone in 2139 just how dangerous those people are...in 2139
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Starter [362]
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Re: oh, what the eff.. do the right thing?
Dec 13, 2019, 6:00 AM
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If being a slave owner or avowed racist precludes someone from having a building named after them, what other offense, either past or present, rises to that same level? There is no doubt that Ben Tillman was both a slave owner and a racist... racist meaning that he believed whites superior to blacks as he demonstrated in his participation in the Hamburg massacre and statements afterwards.
You can change the name of Tillman Hall back to the Main Hall but it won't bring back Simon Coker. It won't change the 200 years of slave ownership, segregration and all the evil that resulted from these institutions.
If our generation embraces the moral authority attached to renaming a building as a way to right a past wrong will it truly heal the past wounds or is it simply a gesture meant to assuage our feelings in the moment?
Personally, I think the building should be renamed "Gantt Hall" after Harvey Gantt. I think it would approproiate. He has accomplished a lot after his graduation from Clemson. However, it should be renamed for him because of his accomplishments and not the color of his skin or as rebuke of Tillman.
But then again, maybe in 120 years that generation will seize the moral authority and declare the building needs to be renamed because he was an architect... and it is evident to everyone in 2139 just how dangerous those people are...in 2139
I am not lobbying for or against the name change. My memories of Tillman Hall will always be free movie premieres to students willing to stand in line for a ticket. If the building was to be renamed it should have nothing to do with the color of a man, but his accomplishments that ALL students can be proud of. Not just black. Not just white. Not just liberals. Not just conservatives. Why does it even have to have someone's name? Why not "Tiger One" or "Roaring Tiger Hall"
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Orange Blooded [2044]
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Re: oh, what the eff.. do the right thing?
Dec 13, 2019, 8:58 AM
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I agree. I am not sure how or who started the tradition of naming a building after someone... and usually it was a man. Maybe in the future the new "tradition" will be to name them "tiger hall" or something like that. All I know is that I will never give enough money to a college or university to get anything named after me....
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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I just don’t think it’s fair to apply the principles of 2019
Dec 13, 2019, 9:06 AM
[ in reply to Re: oh, what the eff.. do the right thing? ] |
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To our entire history. Yes being racist is bad. They didn’t think at all like us back then. Societal norms have changed.
If we just erase all the “bad guys” from history how will we learn from their mistakes ? I thought history was kept to be learned from.
If you were alive during the same time and successful, what is the probability that you would have owned slaves too? Higher than you would like to admit. Heck there is still slavery in parts of the world today. Tillman didn’t invent it, he’s not Adolph Hitler.
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Orange Blooded [2065]
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Re: oh, what the eff.. do the right thing?
Dec 13, 2019, 4:35 AM
[ in reply to oh, what the eff.. do the right thing? ] |
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If you took slave owners names off everything all our money would be blank paper. Pretending things didn’t happen to make others feel better doesn’t make them go away. Don’t hide form history, learn from it.
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CU Guru [1130]
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Re: Meanwhile, hypocrisy update on FGF.....
Dec 12, 2019, 11:10 PM
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Appropriate that SC took the name gamecocks. In the Revolutionary War, Gen Thomas Sumter,"The Gamecock", lost every battle he fought.
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Orange Blooded [3875]
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they hate us cause they ain't us.***
Dec 13, 2019, 7:17 AM
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All-In [38452]
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Re: Meanwhile, hypocrisy update on FGF.....
Dec 13, 2019, 7:29 AM
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If you'd just ignore those plebes youd have more time to enjoy drinks on boats
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Orange Blooded [4767]
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Re: Meanwhile, hypocrisy update on FGF.....
Dec 13, 2019, 7:46 AM
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I will only comment this. Out of the prominent avowed white supremacists in the 19th and early 20th century, Ben Tillman stands out as one of the most violent, hateful, and murderous of all of them.
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Athletic Dir [882]
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Well...
Dec 13, 2019, 8:26 AM
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Since they have nothing to talk about regarding their football team, small minds are going to wander. The re-naming of Tillman hall or any other building in no way should be considered a century removed. Our history as a State and Country is complex. We cannot nor should we try to “make up” for our forefathers actions, it’s not possible. The purpose of history is to heed the lessons of past failures to ensure they never happen again. This revisionist history can’t work but that doesn’t stop those idiots in Columbia. I’d be willing to guess, half the buildings on their campus are named after former slave owners. There is the hypocrisy....
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CU Guru [1722]
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Re: Well...
Dec 13, 2019, 9:24 AM
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Well said. That was my point. Ignorant posters slamming other folks when THEY have the same issues. The South Carolina College students paying a fee for the slaves. Smh
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CU Medallion [64693]
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Just show them this little gem...
Dec 13, 2019, 8:37 AM
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Located in The Horseshoe at Uof6c you will find Rutledge College (1805) named after John Rutledge. John Rutledge was one of very few of our founding fathers in support of slavery and was a slave holder himself. He was an "American legislator who, as a delegate to the Constitutional Convention of 1787, strongly supported the protection of slavery.
Another building located in the famed Horseshoe is DeSaussure College (1809) named after Henry William DeSaussure. DeSaussure and his brother-in-law, Timothy Ford, were powerful Charleston lawyers and of course owned many slaves. Henry William DeSaussure [was] among the first pro-slavery intellectuals to publicly reject the prevailing definition of equality and to identify planter interest with an expressly non-egalitarian conception of the polity. Nature itself has "instituted almost every gradation, from the confines of inferior animals to the state of superior creation." The "unavoidable conclusion is that inequality of condition is one of nature's laws." Writing under the pseudonym "Phocian," DeSaussure argued that equality as a natural condition would lead inevitably to emancipation and that "inevitable ruin would follow both to the whites and blacks, and this fine country would be deluged with blood, and desolated by fire and sword." In locating slavery within a network of unequal relations, Ford and DeSaussure were able to defend it as a positive good, and argue for its necessity for freedom and independence" Talk about a thinking that set South Carolina back 50 years.
In addition to these two remarkable examples of popular Uof6c buildings named after racists and slaveholders, we also find the McCutchen House (1813) also located in Horseshoe. It is named for Professor George McCutchen, who lived in the house from 1915 to World War II. In this case it cannot be proven that this house was named after a racist but instead we find that it actually housed slaves!!! During the Horseshoe renovation project in the 1970s, evidence of slave quarters were found on the third floor. You heard that right...slaves were living on the Uof6c campus.
And Governor John Drayton, who founded South Carolina College in 1801, his family owned Magnolia Plantation near Charleston. And yes, it was built by African slaves. The Drayton Hall Theater which is part of Uof6c college of education is named for him.
or
Slavery at South Carolina College, 1801–1865:
The Foundations of the University of South Carolina 1815–1816: Jack, the First College-owned Slave
The period of 1815–1816 was significant because it included the college’s first experiment in slave ownership. In 1808, the board of trustees purchased one slave to work exclusively for the college The college purchased Jack in 1816 for $900.
In addition to Jack, many other hired-out slaves worked on campus at this time. Various building contractors and the steward hired the majority of these slaves. Contractors used slave labor to make bricks, build fences, and to construct and maintain the college buildings and grounds. The steward supervised slaves working in Stewards Hall. Records dating from November 1816 indicate that the steward employed fifteen slaves who produced, prepared, and served student meals. This group included a butcher, a baker, four female kitchen workers, a wagon driver, and two additional laborers who “cut wood, [worked] in the garden, and [went] to the mills.” The steward hired additional slaves to make students’ beds and sweep the tenements and public spaces. In addition to paying for tuition and board, students paid an annual fee to defray the cost of hiring and caring for the slaves who performed these services.
or how about...
James Marion Sims (the Sims College) used slaves as experimental subjects. Sims operated on at least 10 slave women (some on multiple occasions) from about 1845 to 1849 without anesthesia (although anesthesia was available)
Or these little nuggets;
One of the oldest Black Greek letter fraternities is challenging a rash of racist Internet messages posted on a national fraternity/sorority Web site. The Zeta Zeta chapter of Omega Psi Phi Fraternity, based on the campus of the University of South Carolina, has been the subject of bigoted and derogatory postings regarding its move to the all-White Greek Village. The area mainly comprises mansion-like houses owned by predominately white fraternities and sororities.
Some postings on the internet site www.fratty.net expressed disdain at having the Omega house or any other Black-owned facility in Greek Village:
'The spooks, I mean Q-dawgs, are building a house'
"There goes the neighborhood"
'I propose throwing a cotton picking party for them when they move in. a thousand pounds of cotton in the front yard. sure jesse jackson will be here in a heart beat, but it will be funny as hell watching them pick it up'
'That cotton idea is funny as **** and a great way to set the tone for their time here. Hopefully, the house never actually gets built, though. It will only bring loud n****s, even louder n***** b*****, and trashy *** wiggers and white-trash girls around. But hopefully Darwin was right and these spooks will wind up tearing the house down in a week or two. Much longer than that and we'll have to do it for them. What do you say guys? Here's to ridding the village of our african-american infestation'
'I'm going to hang a black dummy out my window when they are ready to move in'
'Hah. yall ready for this? nothing but crack viles and broken forty bottles in the street, gunshots in the middle of the night, overgrown plants and weeds on the lawn, n*****s walking around with crunk chalices. Pimped-out 95 Accords, and unsanctioned parties at 4 a.m. in the morning on Tuesdays. I hope the Zetas don't discover jungle fever and hang with them looking for some sex'
Now, tell me again which school praises and honors men with racist views?
It is rediculous that USuCk fans continue to claim Clemson is a racist school based on Tillman's views. Racism was predominant in SC in the 1800s. However, some Capons have refused to move into the 21st century.
I won’t even get into $CU closing its doors in the late 1800's rather than admit black students as mandated by reconstruction
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Hall of Famer [24272]
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The horseshoe at u of 6c was built by slaves
Dec 13, 2019, 8:45 AM
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You might want to mention that fact
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CU Medallion [64693]
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It's in there***
Dec 13, 2019, 8:54 AM
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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CU Medallion [64693]
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Frankly, does uof6c have any other kind.***
Dec 13, 2019, 9:19 AM
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Legend [16207]
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Someone should add a condensed version of this on...
Dec 13, 2019, 10:09 AM
[ in reply to Just show them this little gem... ] |
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...THIS IS SOUTH CAROLINA FOOTBALL...to include the side story of Thomas "Gamecock" Sumter.
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Replies: 32
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