|
Replies: 51
| visibility 1
|
CU Medallion [64593]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 88998
Joined: 3/27/01
|
Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 10:39 AM
|
|
If you're the coach, and your team is leading by 3 points with under two minutes to play, you have the ball on the opponents 26-yard line facing a 4th and 2. The opponent has no timeouts remaining so a first down effectively ends the game. Do you kick the FG to go up by 6, put the game in the hands of your defense knowing that a TD and PAT beats you, or do you go for it on 4th down, try to pick up the first down, and run out the clock?
|
|
|
|
 |
Orange Blooded [4150]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1635
Joined: 12/14/10
|
Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 10:41 AM
|
|
Depends on how good your defense is and how good you think your offense is in running the ball.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [25393]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14697
Joined: 11/3/11
|
Saw that and asked myself what I would do. The FG
Oct 24, 2022, 10:43 AM
|
|
would have forced them to score a TD to win. Going for the first down and getting it would have iced the game.
Being a bit of a riverboat gambler, I probably would have gone for that first down. Then again, no one has asked nor will ask me to be their coach! lol
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16207]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13076
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 10:43 AM
|
|
I would have gone for it.
On the prior/similar situation I would have kicked the FG but I didn't have a problem going for it but I didn't like the call to hike the ball back 5 yards to DJ and have him run it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5014]
TigerPulse: 91%
Posts: 6047
Joined: 10/9/08
|
Always take the points unless they don’t matter either way…
Oct 24, 2022, 10:49 AM
|
|
For example, if an extra point doesn’t matter, then why not go for 2 if that does matter? If 3 forces them to go further in order to win, force them to go further. There’s rarely a case where you don’t take the 3 unless you are down by 4 and time is nigh.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16207]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13076
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Always take the points unless they don’t matter either way…
Oct 24, 2022, 11:02 AM
|
|
I've seen enough college and pro games where it seems like desperate teams are able to move the ball down the field quickly. I can't say that all those games that a prevent defense is used...BUT, what transpired was exactly my worst fear. Schrader was driving down the field. If we had not intercepted the ball I'm sure all of us would have blood pressure problems. I can just picture Syracuse on our 13 yard line with 15 secs on the clock.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [55430]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 58431
Joined: 7/18/07
|
Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 10:46 AM
|
|
I'm going to have my team to play aggressive and try to score every time we have the ball. And I'm going to try and confuse my opponents with every down that my offense has the ball, and not to do the same thing twice in a row!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13153]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14144
Joined: 11/2/15
|
Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 10:46 AM
|
|
I think Dabo made the right call. Our only option on 4th and 2 would have been to bring D.J. in, and run up the two hole, after standing in the backfield for 3 seconds. If Potter wasn't money, I would have punted.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [47750]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30414
Joined: 11/15/99
|
Easy to be a Monday morning coach.
Oct 24, 2022, 10:47 AM
|
|
Dabo knew a TD would lose it up by 6 but a FG would tie it if you didn't get the 1st down.
Guess that's why he makes slightly more $$$ than me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3422]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5039
Joined: 4/12/01
|
Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 10:47 AM
|
|
Would've thrown the dice using a two back set.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2000]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 2868
Joined: 2/10/02
|
If the defense has played well, kick the FG***
Oct 24, 2022, 10:48 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3220]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1047
Joined: 1/12/12
|
Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 10:50 AM
|
|
As I sat in the stands Saturday, it surprised me that the decision to kick the FG was made. That only assured that there would be no overtime. I expected that the Tigers would have gone for the first down and then iced the game. By kicking, the only thing gained was an avoidance of overtime, as a TD +PAT beats you.
But I am only one of 85,000 of the world's best fans and not the coach. What do I know?
Go, Tigers!
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1641]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2191
Joined: 8/17/09
|
Kick the field goal.
Oct 24, 2022, 10:53 AM
|
|
Especially with our kicker and the way our defense was playing 2nd half.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
|
FG. Every time.***
Oct 24, 2022, 10:59 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [10859]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7646
Joined: 1/6/04
|
Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 10:59 AM
|
|
I waste two timeouts to scream at my tight end for catching a pass for ZERO yards on 3rd and 3...get past the yard marker and THEN make your cut.
4th and 3 I kick it.
4th and 2 or less...I probably go for it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3195]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3255
Joined: 10/19/08
|
Thanks for your observation. Pet peeve are receivers not
Oct 24, 2022, 3:11 PM
|
|
getting to the line to gain on a critical third or fourth down. But you see it over and over and over.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3195]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3255
Joined: 10/19/08
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16507]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 11655
Joined: 9/1/01
|
Kick and ensure a TD needed to lose.
Oct 24, 2022, 11:00 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1036]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 880
Joined: 7/28/02
|
My philosophy is
Oct 24, 2022, 3:07 PM
|
|
You challenge your OL. You tell them on 3rd and 2 or 3. We got 2 downs to get this. If we get to 4th and 1 or 2 and we cannot get it, do we deserve to win?
Dabo made the call and it worked. Was it the right call? Well it wasn't the wrong call. When we kicked the FG is the only time I got nervous during the entire game.
I would have gone heavy. Bring in an extra OT as a TE. Line Allen up as an H back on the same side. Two back set with DJ. Mafah lead block for Shipley to the weak.
Thankfully we have a coach that knows his business cause I probably fail 9 out of 10 tries.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [83130]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 80161
Joined: 11/29/99
|
If you have a BT Potter and a 44 yard FG is almost
Oct 24, 2022, 11:03 AM
|
|
a gimme, you kick.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [800]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 1280
Joined: 5/4/03
|
Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 11:06 AM
|
|
Dabo forced Syracuse to use their last time out. The field goal was the correct call after that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2140]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 1393
Joined: 8/15/06
|
Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 11:08 AM
|
|
Based on our earlier inability to get a first dow. On fourth down I kick and watch my defense who had figured out how to play their qb finish the game
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5101]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2260
Joined: 6/8/06
|
Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 11:13 AM
|
|
Kicking it was the right play. Yes you could win the game with a first down. If you don't get it they have plenty of time to get in FG range or even score a TD.
If your kicker is not good I would go for it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5512]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4987
Joined: 10/21/15
|
Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 11:21 AM
|
|
I think we should have gone for it. If you don't get it, the field position is essentially the same as it would be after a kickoff. And, in either case, a TD still beats you. And boy was the stadium nervous when Cuse marched down the field to the 30 pretty quickly...
We ran all over them all day long
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16262]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12789
Joined: 11/14/09
|
Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 1:04 PM
|
|
If we go for it and don't convert, that 1st and 10 at our 30 is already in game-tying FG range. Forcing Cuse to go the distance with no timeouts for the W was a good call.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5512]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4987
Joined: 10/21/15
|
Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 1:27 PM
|
|
Uh no. We were not on our 30. We were on their 27.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16262]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12789
Joined: 11/14/09
|
Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 1:47 PM
|
|
I was responding to Cuse moving the ball to our 30 at the end of the game prior to the pick Shrader threw. At that point they were in FG range and if we had failed to convert on 4th they would have been in position to tie. Instead, they had to go for bigger plays to cross the goal line, and wound up making a bad one that ended it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5512]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4987
Joined: 10/21/15
|
Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 1:49 PM
|
|
Got it.
Yes, understood and clearly that's true. But we also put the ball in their hands with a chance to win the game; a TD beats us whether we are up 3 or 6. I would have preferred to be more aggressive and put the game away with a first down, remove all doubt.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
|
I'm sorry dude, but you're way off base.
Oct 24, 2022, 2:46 PM
|
|
I'd we don't convert the 4th, and Cuse can tie it with 3 and send it to OT, then what? If we go to OT and lose, people would want to cut Dabo's head off for what would have been a TERRIBLE decision.
There's no way in hades you risk not getting a 1st down. At that point, you take the points and force them to push the ball for a TD. The likelihood of scoring a TD on that last drive is considerably, I mean way smaller, than giving them an opportunity to go to extra innings.
It was 100% the right call. No question about it. I'd love to hear you call in Dabo's show tonight and see what he says about your football coaching theory.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5512]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4987
Joined: 10/21/15
|
Re: I'm sorry dude, but you're way off base.
Oct 24, 2022, 3:42 PM
|
|
I disagree. A first down is a guaranteed win. Instead, Syracuse drove right down the field and could have had several shots at the end zone to win it.
Also, I'm not real sure that Dabo expected us to kick it, at least not on the initial play. Look at my post at the bottom of this thread for more. I think at a minimum, he was trying to draw them off.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
|
That's cool, but your fandom is getting in the way of sound
Oct 24, 2022, 5:10 PM
|
|
and logical coaching decisions. Look, I'm not going to say going for a 4th and short when in FG range is "always wrong" per se, but in that situation, considering the score, the time on the clock, and the way Cuse had driven the field several times, the FG was without a doubt the right coaching call.
Dabo wanted to draw them off, nothing more.
If you doubt me, I urge you to call him tonight. Make your points and ask him. You will hear pretty much exactly what me and most everyone is saying.
High stakes football is not played on an XBOX. There was WAY too much risk involved with going for it there, the least of which is a very deflating momentum change.
Will you call?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11478]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9412
Joined: 10/3/12
|
Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 11:27 AM
|
|
That was one rare situation where I was glad that we chose to kick the fg and give the defense a normal drive to defend the end zone instead of defending against a fg.
My reason:
It was eerily similar to our last loss in Death Valley. We attempted to go for it on 4th down against Pitt and we were stopped. The traveled a short field and kicked the game winning fg.
Obviously we would not have lost to a fg at the end of regulation vs Cuse, but I was glad we chose a different approach simply because of the game that started this streak and this being the game to beat the ACC record.
I'm glad it worked out for the Tigers.
I heard someone say that a fake was called and the reason Drew Swinney stood up before the kick was to call off the fake and change it to a kick because Syracuse didn't give the right look for the fake.
Is there any truth to that?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16262]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12789
Joined: 11/14/09
|
Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 1:13 PM
|
|
I figured that move was just a ruse to draw Cuse offsides and have them move the chains for us. Would be interesting if there was more to the story.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1087]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 972
Joined: 4/23/22
|
Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 11:40 AM
|
|
I would alter the cadence in an attempt to get them to jump off-sides.
If that fails I go to my jumbo package with Tyler Davis
blocking for Mafah to pick it up
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [10492]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7759
Joined: 12/5/15
|
Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 11:50 AM
|
|
As Coach, my team would always be up 84-0 by the end of the 1st Qtr, so as to avoid having to make tough decisions late in the game.
I’m available at the bargain basement contract price of $80 million for 10 years.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
|
Lol, IKR. If I were coach we would never have a bad play call.
Oct 24, 2022, 2:53 PM
|
|
We would get 10 yards per play and never have a play fail due to execution or a good play by the opponent. We would score om every single possession regardless of opponents or good plays. Remember, anytime a play doesn't work it's due to poor playcalling ?
Likewise, if I were coach, all opponents, regardless of good execution and plays, would end every game with less than 50 yards.
Pffft, coaching is easy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7114]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7324
Joined: 11/30/98
|
That depends on who I am…
Oct 24, 2022, 11:45 AM
|
|
If I’m Clemson 2015-2020, I’m putting the ball in the hands of my QB and trusting him to read the defense and get two yards. 2021-2022? I kick it and pray that the halftime scolding is still motivation enough for the defense.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2533]
TigerPulse: 89%
Posts: 4161
Joined: 10/10/08
|
With an All-America kicking?
Oct 24, 2022, 12:54 PM
|
|
Answers itself.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4299]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2985
Joined: 10/17/02
|
There's more to this story
Oct 24, 2022, 1:08 PM
|
|
Watch Dabo right after the FG, he is mouthing "######, ######". He obviously had other expectations for that play besides a FG. I think it was an attempt to draw offsides that failed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [65528]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33280
Joined: 12/3/03
|
ONE: I am a Recliner Arm Chair Coach, not a Couch Coach.
Oct 24, 2022, 1:14 PM
|
|
TWO: Kick the field goal. Our defense was playing well. Force them to score a TD to beat us, with the kickoff pretty much assuring they have a long field to cover to do it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5512]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4987
Joined: 10/21/15
|
Re: ONE: I am a Recliner Arm Chair Coach, not a Couch Coach.
Oct 24, 2022, 1:28 PM
|
|
They had to score a TD to beat us either way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44054]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32967
Joined: 2/22/03
|
It comes down to trust in your players.
Oct 24, 2022, 1:36 PM
|
|
I go for it if:
-I trust my offensive line to open a hole and allow me to get 2 yards
-I don't trust my kicker to make the field goal
-I don't trust my defense to prevent a TD
I kick the field goal if:
-I don't fully trust my offense to get a first down
-I trust my defense to hold them to no worse than a field goal
This can be argued either way, but I think Dabo did the right thing to kick the field goal. He tends to trust our defense more than our offense, especially in the second half. We had a backup QB in the game who hasn't played much. We have a great kicker. Plus, we were at home with the crowd and momentum on our side.
I will say that Syracuse hurt themselves a lot when Babers let 25 seconds tick off the clock before calling a timeout. That was a huge mistake. If he hadn't done that, things could've been different in terms of how they played out.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
|
In line with using 6 basketball players
Oct 24, 2022, 2:59 PM
|
|
I would have put 12 guys on offense. Surely we would have got the 1st down then!
Please, Mrs Brownlee, please stop pretending you know anything about the game of football. 99% of the football comments you make are weak troll jobs, trying desperately to find flaws in the nation's 2nd best coached program since 2009.
For the LOVE OF GOD, please stick to basketball. Your husband needs you to pander for him.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3496]
TigerPulse: 86%
Posts: 10341
Joined: 12/9/03
|
They were stacking the middle.............
Oct 24, 2022, 1:53 PM
|
|
I thought we should run speed option with Shipley being the RB. Cade is faster than DJ and would be tough to stop. I was disappointed when on the previous possession we let Cade throw it on 3rd and 5. I thought we should keep pounding the run game and if they stop us go for it on 4th. We have a problem finishing games on offense but that is nothing new. Even when Deshaun and TLaw were here we had trouble finishing games with the offense.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [61846]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 39644
Joined: 12/16/01
|
At the game, I was saying, 'Go for the 1st down'.
Oct 24, 2022, 1:55 PM
|
|
But, I'm an engineer and not paid anywhere close to what Dabo is paid.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [12878]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8198
Joined: 3/30/16
|
Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 3:11 PM
|
|
Kick the 43 yd. field goal and count on your defense to stop a two minute drive for a TD.
Exactly as our Tiger's did. We had stopped the Cuse for no points on their six previous possessions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5512]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4987
Joined: 10/21/15
|
Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 3:38 PM
|
|
I'm not sure what the actual play call was. I just watched it back on YouTube without the commentators, and you can clearly hear Drew Swinney. When he stands up and takes a step or two towards the line, he says "We're kicking it, we're kicking it".
There was some sort of play call on there - a fake of some sort, maybe some sort of motion play or hard count to draw them offsides. But he called it off.
Then after the kick, Dabo yells "dangit, dangit" on the sideline. Not the type of reaction you expect after a made field goal.
I'm sure glad it all worked out though!
Watch here at the 3:27:30 mark.
youtube.com/watch?v=DwF2muGKa14
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7169]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4003
Joined: 9/17/14
|
Didn't notice, but Shrader really did a "flop" out of bounds
Oct 24, 2022, 4:20 PM
|
|
He's a good fit for pro futboul.lol
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4365]
TigerPulse: 80%
Posts: 8370
Joined: 1/4/17
|
Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 6:50 PM
[ in reply to Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored... ] |
|
I'm thinking that they worked on a fake during the week - probably saw something in Syracuse's formation that gave them an edge. But when they lined up, Drew saw that they were not in the expected formation and called it off. Dabo was disappointed that they missed their opportunity.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7169]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4003
Joined: 9/17/14
|
I would have lined up in formation and attempted
Oct 24, 2022, 4:13 PM
|
|
to draw them offsides. At 1 second I would call a time out and...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16262]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12789
Joined: 11/14/09
|
Re: I would have lined up in formation and attempted
Oct 24, 2022, 5:23 PM
|
|
We were out of timeouts on that play. It was all live clock with bringing out Potter and taking our shot.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4365]
TigerPulse: 80%
Posts: 8370
Joined: 1/4/17
|
Re: Monday morning couch coach question for the bored...
Oct 24, 2022, 6:47 PM
|
|
I love how you guys with the hypotheticals never bring up the situation that arises if you are NOT successful. If Clemson goes for it and doesn't make the first down, than Syracuse has plenty of time to go the 40 yards they need for the tying field goal (rather than the 75 yards they have to go (AND get in the end zone) for being 6 points down instead of 3.
Being up only 3, puts the Defense at a terrible disadvantage, whereas being up 6 gives them all of the odds.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 51
| visibility 1
|
|
|
50
