Not what he said

And that's just in the "megachurches" that meet the minimum for megachurch membership. Obviously we're just talking about an average, but if a church somehow has 22,000 in attendance every Sunday (I don't even know how that's possible), then you're talking about more than 1000 of those people coming from unchurched backgrounds.

Keep in mind, also, that many of the people who are being counted as "churched" may be people who have some church affiliation but who rarely attended, or people who have become disaffected with one church (as is the case with a lot of former Catholics who feel that they were never taught the Bible) and who are looking for other church communities.

With that in mind, I don't really have a problem with people leaving one church to attend one of these megachurches. Where I think it becomes a problem is when people are leaving more traditional churches that require more of their members and moving to megachurches where it's easier to hide, even if the experience seems more authentic and modern. It's much more difficult to just be a face in the crowd on Sundays at a church of 100 than it is to disappear after the service in a church where 20,000 people are there.

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this isn't what the pope said...

Sep 17, 2013, 5:22 PM [ in reply to Tell that to this new pope. ]

but, as with much religion reporting, it was twisted into something that non- Christians or liberals would've like the pope to have said.

He was merely pointing out that atheists are every bit as subject to God's grace as Chrisitians are, and that God saves who he will based on their seeking of his grace.

Here's a good explanation (from a Greenvilian!), with the complete translation of the comment:

In a winning style that is reminiscent of Pope John Paul I’s charming letters to the various historical figures, Pope Francis has written a very personal letter to the founder of a major Italian newspaper. Over the summer, Eugenio Scalfari – an agnostic – wrote a series of editorials posing some theological questions. Pope Francis responded with a warm-hearted explanation of the Christian faith and the personal encounter with Christ that lies at the heart of it.

Journalists ignored the strong gospel message of the Pope’s letter to focus on one paragraph in which Pope Francis addresses the question of whether God can forgive agnostics and atheists. The Daily Telegraph’s Nick Squires reports that the Pope says, “God forgives those who follow their conscience.” However, in the Zenit translation of the letter, these words do not appear. The Pope writes:

First of all, you ask me if the God of Christians forgives one who doesn’t believe and doesn’t seek the faith. Premise that – and it’s the fundamental thing – the mercy of God has no limits if one turns to him with a sincere and contrite heart; the question for one who doesn’t believe in God lies in obeying one’s conscience. Sin, also for those who don’t have faith, exists when one goes against one’s conscience. To listen to and to obey it means, in fact, to decide in face of what is perceived as good or evil. And on this decision pivots the goodness or malice of our action.

Nowhere does the Holy Father state that “God forgives those who follow their conscience.” What he does state is that “the mercy of God has no limits if one turns to him with a sincere and contrite heart.” Strange how Mr. Squires omitted that important word, “if,” and what came after it. God’s mercy is everlasting, and he does desire that no one should perish. But as the Pope teaches, we cannot receive God’s mercy if we do not ask for it, and we do this by turning to him “with a sincere and contrite heart.”

Simply obeying one’s conscience is not enough, and the Pope never said it was. Instead, the Pope is teaching that without the light of faith and belief in God, the only thing left for the agnostic or atheist to follow is the light of their conscience. This limited light can help a person decide between good and evil, but the light of the human conscience alone, without divine grace and the acceptance of divine revelation, is very limited. Not only is one’s conscience on its own a limited light, but that light is shaded by the influences of the secular world and distorted by individual sin and ignorance. The light of individual conscience is like a match flame in the darkened cave. It is better than nothing, but it does not compare to the full strength searchlight of God’s enlightening grace.

Once again, the secular writers have taken a snippet of the Pope’s comments out of context and distorted them to make Pope Francis fit into their “progressive” agenda. It is heartening that the journalists emphasize God’s mercy, but what Squires and others have missed are the Pope’s reminder that to find God’s forgiveness, one must turn to him with not only sincerity, but a contrite heart. A contrite heart is a penitent heart. It is a heart and mind that says first and foremost, “I am a sinner in need of God. I need assistance and forgiveness. I need the Divine Mercy.”

As soon as any son or daughter of Adam turns to God with such a state of mind, the everlasting mercy overflows.

Fr. Dwight Longenecker is the parish priest of Our Lady of the Rosary Church in Greenville, South Carolina. His latest book, The Romance of Religion, will be published by Thomas Nelson in February of 2014.

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Interesting...

My problem summed up...only 6% unchurched

Cam makes it sound like

only if you're being entirely uncharitable

Charity...are you poor?

case in point***

I feel like my point has been made several times

this is what I was responding to

Oh, no, someone not being serious in the jounge

I thought about you when I read the 72%.

but what if they have stadium seating and electric guitars?

so what's actually wrong with stadium seating...

Nothing

6% of 2,000 is still 120 people

I also think it's funny that the quotes from...

When I tithe

That's the problem...everyone wants their money going

No, that's not it

that's the same at nearly every church***

Huge props to the last three***

Craig Groschel's church, Lifechurch.tv is behind YouVersion

I wonder how much of the last 2 sections is true

Well, the other section is probably true, but if you

Osteen preaches a "prosperity gospel"

Big churches have merely been more blessed by God

This would make Perry Nobles blood boil...

Creflo Dollar is a cool name***

Re: #### Dolla

Churches should influence the culture, not the other

Re: Churches should influence the culture, not the other

Yup, you shouldn't go to church expecting a show

Quick question

As for the stadium seating

Re: As for the stadium seating

depends who's playing the organ and what they're playing

If you are interested, Indelible Grace

"Some of it is pretty good.."

I have no problem with personal preferences

uh oh, I'm a sound man that runs a mixing board at

I do sound and run the board at my church...watcha sayin?

jinx...lol***

Whale, then I think you know what that means

nearly every church with a sanctuary that seats...

Tell that to this new pope.

Yeah...too much there to even try to make sense of...

Just think, the same church would have

You're being much to kind

this isn't what the pope said...

The Catholic and Orthodox views on ignorance...

Re: Always enjoy watching these scumbags get caught***

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