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Orange Blooded [2162]
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How can I tell if I'm perceiving reality, or creating it?
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Apr 4, 2024, 5:38 PM
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Fordtunate Son posed this question in another thread. I've been reading a lot about the law of attraction lately, and it seems there is real evidence behind the idea that we do in fact create our own reality.
What does this mean for religion in general, and specifically the claim that Jesus rose from the dead? Did his followers unconsciously convince themselves that it happened?
Does it prove that we are in control, and not some all powerful deity?
https://www.smartliving365.com/the-science-behind-you-get-to-make-it-up/
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Lot o points [156129]
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You talking about manifesting?
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Apr 4, 2024, 5:47 PM
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It’s been a theory for centuries but I’ve never seen actual evidence that it was a real phenomenon.
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Orange Blooded [2162]
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Re: You talking about manifesting?
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Apr 4, 2024, 5:57 PM
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I think manifesting is more specific. Like becoming obsessed with a goal until you reach it.
The law of attraction I believe is more of an unconscious hard wiring in our brain that determines how we perceive things, and the decisions we ultimately make.
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CU Guru [1012]
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Re: You talking about manifesting?
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Apr 4, 2024, 6:38 PM
[ in reply to You talking about manifesting? ] |
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Real as in something supernatural to it? Yeah, of course not. Real as in, if you keep convincing yourself something will happen, you might perform actions that lead to said thing happening? Yeah, maybe.
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Orange Blooded [2162]
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Re: You talking about manifesting?
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Apr 4, 2024, 6:55 PM
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It seems extremely simple, but crazy to think about.
When was the last time you were absolutely certain something was going to happen and it didn't?
I don't mean like Clemson beating South Carolina two years ago when we wound up losing, but something you are hard wired to believe.
For example, I unconsciously believe my father in law is an ahole. Guess what, every time I'm around him he comes off as an ahole.
I can't change his actions, but I can change my perception of his actions, and that would ultimately change our relationship.
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CU Guru [1012]
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Re: You talking about manifesting?
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Apr 4, 2024, 7:32 PM
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>When was the last time you were absolutely certain something was going to happen and it didn't?
>I don't mean like Clemson beating South Carolina two years ago when we wound up losing, but something you are hard wired to believe.
That's an awesome question. I mean, I'm wrong about things all the time, but I'm trying to think the last time I had my belief shattered to that extent.
Obviously, leaving the faith was the big one, but that took many years and there was no one single moment. I actually remember the moment I realized I no longer believed, but I can't point to any single moment that caused it. It was a LOT of steps.
>For example, I unconsciously believe my father in law is an ahole. Guess what, every time I'm around him he comes off as an ahole.
>I can't change his actions, but I can change my perception of his actions, and that would ultimately change our relationship.
ha, relatable. I don't think mine is an ahole but we are VERY different to say the least.
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Lot o points [156129]
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Happens all the time. Id say if it doesnt
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Apr 4, 2024, 7:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: You talking about manifesting? ] |
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You’re probably just an extremely realistic/conservative goal setter and dreamer. That says more about the accuracy of your goals (or maybe setting your bar higher) than it does the power of confidence.
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Orange Blooded [3083]
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Re: You talking about manifesting?
Apr 6, 2024, 6:08 AM
[ in reply to Re: You talking about manifesting? ] |
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For starters, how could you be hard wired to believe your pop-in-law is an ahole? Wouldn't your interctions and observations of him lead you to this belief? Secondly, how can you unconsciously believe that or anything else? To have this belief and the awarenesss of it, seems the opposite of something unconsious.
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Orange Blooded [2162]
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Re: You talking about manifesting?
Apr 6, 2024, 10:23 AM
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"For starters, how could you be hard wired to believe your pop-in-law is an ahole? Wouldn't your interctions and observations of him lead you to this belief?"
Yes, my observations have led to that belief. However, I know that my wife and many other people do not consider him an ahole, even though they are observing the same things. That's where the whole creating reality comes in I believe. It's how I interpret his actions that lead to what I believe about him.
"Secondly, how can you unconsciously believe that or anything else? To have this belief and the awarenesss of it, seems the opposite of something unconsious."
The more I've thought about my relationship with him, the more I've realized that my feelings towards him may come from differences in opinion we have about unrelated things, like religion, finance, career goals, etc...We are total opposite when it comes to these things. He would rather save money, I'd rather go on a expensive vacation. He has lived in the same town and gone to the same job for 40 years, I've started businesses and moved around searching for something bigger. I think these differences may be the root cause of how I negatively determine his actions. So I am interpreting current situations based on beliefs that I already hold.
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Lot o points [156129]
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No, the whacky theory itself says that there is some sort
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Apr 4, 2024, 7:37 PM
[ in reply to Re: You talking about manifesting? ] |
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Of energy you are aligning by constantly repeating a desire and said energy “makes” the outcome inevitable.
“Think and grow rich” is probably one of the most popular examples of this theory. Been around forever but inevitably when discussing good business books someone will mention this one, looking around cautiously like it’s some great secret they just discovered.
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CU Guru [1012]
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Re: No, the whacky theory itself says that there is some sort
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Apr 4, 2024, 7:43 PM
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Yeah, that theory is clearly bs lol
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Orange Blooded [2162]
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Re: No, the whacky theory itself says that there is some sort
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Apr 4, 2024, 8:26 PM
[ in reply to No, the whacky theory itself says that there is some sort ] |
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I don’t think we are on the same page here. In fact the article points out that’s not what the law of attraction is.
For example, I cant imagine myself being rich and make money grow on trees, but I can start thinking like rich people think and eventually change my financial situation.
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Oculus Spirit [97872]
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Re: How can I tell if I'm perceiving reality, or creating it?
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Apr 4, 2024, 6:25 PM
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CU Guru [1012]
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Re: How can I tell if I'm perceiving reality, or creating it?
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Apr 4, 2024, 6:33 PM
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>Did his followers unconsciously convince themselves that it happened?
Almost certainly.
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Orange Blooded [2162]
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Re: How can I tell if I'm perceiving reality, or creating it?
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Apr 4, 2024, 6:46 PM
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See I've always imagined christianity starting in a cave somewhere as a small cult that came up with this amazing but completely fabricated story of their leader. I don't think that would explain the religion exploding like it did though.
There were clearly a lot of people that truly believed Jesus rose from the dead. What's strange to me though is that they disbanded after his death, even though he reportedly performed all these miracles (including raising the dead) in front of them. Why were they not lined up outside of the tomb waiting? Were the miracles a fabrication?
It's a fascinating mystery to me. Totally different from someone like Muhammad who was a strong military leader. Not surprised that people believed and worshipped him. Jesus on the other hand was a peasant. How in the world did he become the most influential person in history?
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CU Guru [1012]
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Re: How can I tell if I'm perceiving reality, or creating it?
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Apr 4, 2024, 6:56 PM
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>See I've always imagined christianity starting in a cave somewhere as a small cult that came up with this amazing but completely fabricated story of their leader. I don't think that would explain the religion exploding like it did though.
It is indeed fascinating. It's not the only one that exploded, though, and it wasn't even the fastest.
Why does Islam grow so quickly? Christianity and Islam are incompatible so both can't be true. So we have crystal clear evidence that a false religion can grow. We have no verifiable evidence that any religion grew because of something supernatural.
>There were clearly a lot of people that truly believed Jesus rose from the dead. What's strange to me though is that they disbanded after his death, even though he reportedly performed all these miracles (including raising the dead) in front of them.
Well, you are also getting reports years after the fact. We don't know what actually happened, or if there was even a tomb at all.
>Were the miracles a fabrication?
If by fabrication you mean, people sat around and just made them up whole cloth. no. If you mean they grew legendarily. yeah, of course that's what happened.
>It's a fascinating mystery to me. Totally different from someone like Muhammad who was a strong military leader. Not surprised that people believed and worshipped him. Jesus on the other hand was a peasant. How in the world did he become the most influential person in history?
Sure, but people aren't worshiping him as a peasant, they are worshiping the supernatural legends attributed to him. Also, making him a peasant makes him MORE relatable, not less. I think that's part of the attraction. I mean, if I had to choose, I'm choosing the dude more like me than the military bro.
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Orange Blooded [2162]
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Re: How can I tell if I'm perceiving reality, or creating it?
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Apr 4, 2024, 7:05 PM
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"Christianity and Islam are incompatible so both can't be true. So we have crystal clear evidence that a false religion can grow. "
I don't know if I completely agree with that. They both consider the Old Testament scripture. Muslims believe Jesus was the Jewish Messiah and that he will return. They just seem to disagree on his death.
I guess it depends on which version of christianity. Our bible belt version is certainly incompatible.
"Sure, but people aren't worshiping him as a peasant, they are worshiping the supernatural legends attributed to him. Also, making him a peasant makes him MORE relatable, not less. I think that's part of the attraction. I mean, if I had to choose, I'm choosing the dude more like me than the military bro."
Is there any other example in history of someone being idolized that didn't do something to earn it? There are a lot of poor preachers around. There were a lot of Jewish Messiahs in the first century. Most people have never heard of any of them.
The New Testament reports that he did do amazing things, but if you believe he didn't, how do you explain it?
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CU Guru [1012]
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Re: How can I tell if I'm perceiving reality, or creating it?
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Apr 4, 2024, 7:28 PM
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> don't know if I completely agree with that. They both consider the Old Testament scripture. Muslims believe Jesus was the Jewish Messiah and that he will return. They just seem to disagree on his death.
I guess it depends on which version of christianity. Our bible belt version is certainly incompatible.
Sure, it was just an example: Hinduism has more adherents than protestants, those certainly aren't compatible.
>Is there any other example in history of someone being idolized that didn't do something to earn it?
Bro, there are people who didn't EXIST that are idolized.
>The New Testament reports that he did do amazing things, but if you believe he didn't, how do you explain it?
The same way any legend happens. Is it surprising that some would get big? Show me a single part of that that requires something supernatural, THAT would be interesting.
Dude, I was ALL IN on Jesus until my mid-twenties and I had ZERO verifiable evidence of the dude at all and I believed. It doesn't surprise me at all that it took off in a time when people were already religious.
I mean Mormonism started less than 200 years ago and look at it grow. People are attracted to "something more". Virtually all of us want there to be something more, which is fine, it just doesn't appear to be supernatural.
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Orange Blooded [2162]
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Re: How can I tell if I'm perceiving reality, or creating it?
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Apr 4, 2024, 8:00 PM
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I never believed it. I can honestly say I wanted to and that I gave it a chance. I read apologetic book after book but the flame of skepticism was never put out. In the back of my mind it was always there.
I see your point about people believing crazy things and it growing, and obviously Constantine making it the official religion of the Roman Empire really made it explode. I’m still not ruling out that Jesus never lived and that the whole thing was a Roman concoction.
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CU Guru [1012]
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Re: How can I tell if I'm perceiving reality, or creating it?
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Apr 4, 2024, 8:12 PM
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>I never believed it. I can honestly say I wanted to and that I gave it a chance. I read apologetic book after book but the flame of skepticism was never put out. In the back of my mind it was always there.
Interesting. I definitely had doubts, but there were not around Jesus. The ###### in that armor didn't happen until much latter.
>I see your point about people believing crazy things and it growing, and obviously Constantine making it the official religion of the Roman Empire really made it explode. I’m still not ruling out that Jesus never lived and that the whole thing was a Roman concoction.
I personally doubt it was made up whole cloth. I think it was started by people who sincerely believed. That is not hard to believe. I believed. People on here believe 2000 years removed who never saw Jesus and can't interview any of the witnesses. It does not surprise me at all that a small handful of people really thought he rose from the dead. People believe way crazier stuff than that.
Now, if you already believed that the supernatural was real, but THIS guy will give you eternal life... that sounds kind of appealing no? Also, think about how much data we have at our fingertips now and yet people are still arguing over whether the earth is flat...
We are talking about a religion growing when people ALREADY BELIEVED IN MIRACLES. It was not a crazy jump to jesus.
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Orange Blooded [2162]
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Re: How can I tell if I'm perceiving reality, or creating it?
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Apr 5, 2024, 9:41 AM
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The miracles are another mystery because we don’t see them today, but everyone back then seemed to believe they could happen and did happen.
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CU Guru [1012]
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Re: How can I tell if I'm perceiving reality, or creating it?
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Apr 5, 2024, 10:10 AM
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People on this board believe they happen today.
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All-In [29938]
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Re: How can I tell if I'm perceiving reality, or creating it?
Apr 5, 2024, 10:26 AM
[ in reply to Re: How can I tell if I'm perceiving reality, or creating it? ] |
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Apparently, even the priests could do some sort of 'miracles' related to healing, or driving out demons, etc.
So when people of the time were 'amazed' that Jesus was doing some miracles, I'm not sure if they were amazed that he was doing miracles at all, or amazed that he was doing miracles as a non-priest, ie, a layman.
Plus, he did empower some of his disciples to go an do miraculous healing as well. And one woman even 'stole' healing power from him by touching him in a crowd.
So they seemed to think this power was transferrable, and limited, maybe like a battery?
Mark 5:30
"At once Jesus realized that power had gone out from him. He turned around in the crowd and asked, “Who touched my clothes?”
As to the messiah, I think a part of the acceptance Jesus was that they were actively looking for a Messiah. That's the whole schtick of Life of Brian. I'm not sure if 'confirmation bias' is the appropriate term here, but people were actively looking for that role to be filled. And there were a very particular set of rules to be followed to be the 'true' messiah...like the re-appearance of Elijah, and the messiah coming from the Davidic line.
They were under Roman rule, and messiahs were national, not necessarily personal, saviors.
Jesus did very little forgiveness from sin in his early ministry. I think maybe only the guy on the mat, and then only to show he could do it. But of course, priests could do that as well. Or at least, be a conduit from Yahweh to do it. Again, I'm not sure if the crowds were amazed that Jesus could do it, or that he could do without being a priest. On his status as messiah, look at this remarkable passage from John 7.
40 On hearing his words, some of the people said, “Surely this man is the Prophet.” [Elijah]
41 Others said, “He is the Messiah.”
Still others asked, “How can the Messiah come from Galilee? 42 Does not Scripture say that the Messiah will come from David’s descendants and from Bethlehem, the town where David lived?” 43 Thus the people were divided because of Jesus.
That is just an incredible.
1) It shows that the people expected the Messiah to come from Bethlehem not Galilee. And those particular people didn't consider Jesus to be from Bethlehem.
2)That's pretty late in the game as a text, considering John was written in maybe 90ish? And earlier works like Matthew clearly say he was born in Bethlehem. So was the John community not hanging out with the Matt community? Did they miss the memo? Did the author of John have access to the Book of Matt? The nativity story is not in Mark or John. But it is in Matt, and Luke.
3)To include that skepticism at all heightens the validity to me of the incident.
It's just an amazing insight into the time, and what people thought, at the moment.
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Orange Blooded [2162]
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Re: How can I tell if I'm perceiving reality, or creating it?
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Apr 5, 2024, 7:50 PM
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I've always wondered what exactly was going on with these people the gospels say were possessed with demons. Were they just mentally ill people? I don't think it ever specifies. Just says they were possessed and Jesus drove them out. Exorcism is still supposedly done today right? So that was nothing special but it seems something was going on with them. Is there any other writings from that time that talk about people being demon possessed?
I've never heard of that passage from John. That is very interesting and weird because yes Matthew was supposedly written a good 10-20 years before John, and based on even earlier material. However, the earliest gospel of Mark says nothing about Jesus birth, so it's seems like that may have been a later addition and maybe not even true of Jesus.
Technically he wasn't "from" Bethlehem though was he? I was born in Charlotte, NC but brought home and raised in Rock Hill, SC. I don't tell people I'm from Charlotte.
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CU Guru [1012]
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Re: How can I tell if I'm perceiving reality, or creating it?
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Apr 5, 2024, 8:08 PM
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>I've always wondered what exactly was going on with these people the gospels say were possessed with demons. Were they just mentally ill people?
Imagine what ancient people thought a seizure was. It would be easy to interpret it as a demonic possession. And they often don't last long. It would be easy for someone to say "leave him" and then the seizure passed, it would seem reasonable to interpret that as a demon leaving given the context of the time. I'm sure i'd believe it myself.
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Orange Blooded [2162]
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Re: How can I tell if I'm perceiving reality, or creating it?
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Apr 5, 2024, 8:12 PM
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That's what I'm wondering, if it was things we now have medical terms for or something else was going on.
I think the bible does say in one instance there was a man hanging out in a graveyard. That seems different lol.
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Oculus Spirit [94260]
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You guys didn't have this conversation back when you were 13 years old?***
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Apr 5, 2024, 3:42 AM
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Orange Blooded [2162]
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Re: You guys didn't have this conversation back when you were 13 years old?***
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Apr 5, 2024, 9:40 AM
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This is great news. It means we control our destiny, and it’s not up to a single deity who created us to serve him which is an odd concept if you think about it.
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All-In [29938]
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Re: You guys didn't have this conversation back when you were 13 years old?***
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Apr 5, 2024, 9:46 AM
[ in reply to You guys didn't have this conversation back when you were 13 years old?*** ] |
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I got to this post too late to clarify my original intent, and it took am interesting turn so I didn't try to threat-jack it at that point.
But when I made the comment to you, I was thinking more physically than meta-physically. Like, literally, how can I be sure my brain is transmitting reality to me? Or rather, how can I be sure my mind is reassembling the deconstructed images my eyes see?
I mean, I guess I have no other options in the matter, since it's the only brain, and only eyes, I have. It was late when I made the post to you, and I think my eyes were a bit blurry, and I wondered which was the natural state...my blurry vision, or my clear vision. And that struck me as terrifying, that reality might be something other than I trust it to be. That my own body and mind might be 'lying' to me.
I did think about it as a thirteen-year old, in regards to say the color of the sky, and what I might call blue, you call orange, etc. But late the other night I inadvertently took that horror to a new level.
What I was getting at was this. In this graphic, the 'real' apple is perfectly reconstructed in the mind as 'mental' apple. But how do my mind is doing that reconstruction perfectly, or even accurately? How do I know I'm not looking at a 'real' apple, and my mind is reconstructing that apple as the image of a car in my head?
Which is why I asked "How do I know if I'm perceiving reality, or creating it?"
As it turned out, this ended up being a great example in the difficulty of translating and deciphering texts. I was rather vague and off the cuff in my original comment, and so the conversation went off in a direction very differently than what I meant.
A very interesting conversation, but at a much higher level than I was thinking in the middle of the night, lol.
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Orange Blooded [2162]
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Re: You guys didn't have this conversation back when you were 13 years old?***
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Apr 5, 2024, 8:11 PM
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The article in the OP kind of touches on what you are saying with regards to how we judge things.
If a bottle of wine is more expensive, we tend to believe it tastes better.
I don't know if your brain would have any reason to lie to you about an apple. There seems to be evidence that our biases and beliefs shape how we observe things though.
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Starter [395]
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Re: You guys didn't have this conversation back when you were 13 years old?***
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Apr 8, 2024, 9:35 AM
[ in reply to Re: You guys didn't have this conversation back when you were 13 years old?*** ] |
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Reality is what we perceive through the 5 senses. Which is what the basis for the Matrix was all about. We see what we know to be an apple, smells like an apple, tastes like an apple. Our brain says, "that's an apple". If we bite it and it tastes like an orange, our brain goes haywire because everything else tells us it's an apple. I think it's funny whenever we eat something foreign and say "it tastes like chicken". Maybe chicken was God's default flavor, or our brains.
What we create is our own truths. Now more than ever it seems.
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All-In [29938]
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Re: You guys didn't have this conversation back when you were 13 years old?***
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Apr 8, 2024, 10:59 AM
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I did that once on a fishing trip. When I was a kid, someone in our party had filled some empty coke cans with water, just so we'd have something more to drink.
I reached over and took a big swig out of one, fully expecting it to be sweet Cola-Cola, and when all I tasted was neutral water, my mind nearly exploded.
What was even more strange about it was that because it wasn't what I expected, the water tasted HORRIBLE to me, even thought it was just neutral water, which I had tasted before for all my life.
The mind doesn't like surprises, apparently.
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Hall of Famer [24286]
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Re: You guys didn't have this conversation back when you were 13 years old?***
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Apr 8, 2024, 12:26 PM
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I had a complete taste hallucination once. No drugs involved. Bare in mind I grew up playing football and later rugby. Both very powerful fond memories.
Anyway, I was walking in the park one day, a few years back, around the time the Summer begins to slide into Autumn. The taste of a rubber mouth guard appeared in my mouth for a second or two. It was really weird. I wasn't even thinking about rugby or football at the time I was walking, but I think the weather and the field I was walking by made it happen.
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CU Guru [1012]
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Re: You guys didn't have this conversation back when you were 13 years old?***
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Apr 8, 2024, 12:44 PM
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oddly enough, the sense of smell is apparently a better memory trigger than any other sense.
I've had a similar experience to you where you "taste" or "smell" something that isn't present.
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All-TigerNet [13362]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9887
Joined: 1/23/06
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On a scale of 1-10
Apr 5, 2024, 8:26 PM
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What are you think about right now?
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Hall of Famer [24286]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12357
Joined: 9/1/14
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Re: How can I tell if I'm perceiving reality, or creating it?
2
Apr 8, 2024, 9:50 AM
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I think a good attitude can generally lead to better decision making and will generally influence other people to want to work with you. This will bring better results in your life. I don't think that's any secret.
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Replies: 36
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