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Orange Blooded [2523]
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OP had the right formula to compete at Clemson. Get the best
Jan 10, 2014, 2:44 PM
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athletes you can and play a frantic style to take advantage of that athleticism.
I want to like Brownell but I ain't seeing much that makes me think he's coaching well. Looks a like Defensive coord to me.
Most of our turnovers were just sloppy ball handling, not great plays by FSU. That can't be the result of good coaching.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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IMHO, the Clemson hoops job is the toughest in America
Jan 10, 2014, 2:52 PM
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... for a large variety of reasons.
I've watched for over 50 years.
It's been a roller coaster ride. Never reaching the top of the peak, but never totally bottoming out either.
And it shows no signs of getting a lot better within the lifetimes of most of us on Tiger Net in 2014.
We can wish it. We can hope it. We can DEMAND it.
But, we probably won't get it ...
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Freshman [7]
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Re: IMHO, the Clemson hoops job is the toughest in America
Jan 12, 2014, 10:29 AM
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THIS is reality!
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Orange Blooded [2826]
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The Miami Hurricanes model...
Jan 10, 2014, 2:55 PM
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Play a full-court uptempo style.
Don't try to out-defense the Dukes and Carolinas in the league as the ACC officiating won't allow you to win this way.
Play an uptempo game where it is difficult for them to get in front of you and flop.
However, we need to recruit these types of players to do it successfully.
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All-TigerNet [11161]
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Too bad he couldn't keep it in his pants..lol***
Jan 10, 2014, 2:58 PM
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All-TigerNet [10498]
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OP was down with OPP (allegedly)***
Jan 13, 2014, 5:06 PM
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nm
Message was edited by: CTiger423®
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Orange Blooded [4960]
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Re: OP had the right formula to compete at Clemson. Get the best
Jan 10, 2014, 2:59 PM
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The more I watch Brownell the more I worry that the OP style is our only hope. When he was coaching Clemson I thought it was time to move on because his style would only take us so far. The problem is the style of play that can take you to the next level requires the recruits to play it. OP coached a style that allowed inferior competition to play with anyone, similar to PJ at GT. The reason it worked at Clemson was because of the excitement it created. We need a coach like Brownell to progress past where we were with OP, but if we cannot get the recruits it is pointless.
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CU Medallion [73570]
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Brad can't get recruits in b/c
Jan 10, 2014, 3:14 PM
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A. He's a boring personality
B. He has a God awful boring scheme.
The best players want to run and throw it up. He just wants to teach you defense. Plus for a motion offense guy, he doesn't seem to teach the Motion part very well.
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All-In [27446]
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Re: Brad can't get recruits in b/c
Jan 10, 2014, 3:18 PM
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He obviously has no knowledge of offensive basketball or how to recruit shooters. I guess that explains why his two newest guys are only averaging about 60 a game!!!!!!!!!!!
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Freshman [7]
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Re: Brad can't get recruits in b/c
Jan 12, 2014, 11:02 AM
[ in reply to Brad can't get recruits in b/c ] |
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Clemson is not on the radar for big time recruits and it has NOTHING to do with the coach and everything to do with tradition. We can have a recruit all but signed and as soon as something better comes along We lose out. The Win vs DUKE wasn't boring. Maybe we can get coach Brownell to wear a cheer leading skirt on the bench so he becomes less boring. It would be something to see him at a basketball hotbed and see what types of recruits he could land- I think that issue would become a non issue. Kids aren't knocking the door down to come to Clemson for basketball and it is not about Coach Brownell.
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Orange Blooded [2565]
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OP had the right formula to compete at Clemson? Get the best
Jan 10, 2014, 3:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: OP had the right formula to compete at Clemson. Get the best ] |
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Are you all kidding yourselves or the rest of TigerNet Nation? OP did not recruit real well his final 2 years.
where are the seniors on this year's team--presuming you disagree. And just how is OP doing @DePaul with all the HS basketball talent within 50 to 100 miles of "The Loop"? His frantic style ran his own roster out of energy by thte end of a season. Brad has got to have some basketball players---especially ones thawt can shoot.
I saw one of our worst defeats in years in Charlottesville last season and must tell you that Brownell was still coaching near to the end to try to improve the skill and technique levels of his squad as they were getting blown out. We have a few good athletes, and a few reasonable defensive-oriented basketball players. We have zero real scorers. K.J. is close but not quite in that category.
Coach BB recognizes that he needs scorers and good basketball players. The reruit attendance for tomorrow shows that understanding. Give your current guy a break because you are not likely to get a better one anytime soon. We have to suffer with him and the team because we had Shyatt and OP that left a bare cupboard; so did Rick Barnes for that matter, if you look closely.
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Orange Blooded [4564]
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These are all BB's players now. No more OP scapegoat***
Jan 10, 2014, 3:27 PM
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1st Rounder [600]
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Orange Blooded [3835]
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Please don't call what Brownell did "advancing to 2nd rd"****
Jan 13, 2014, 2:34 PM
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All-In [44308]
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No, but he did win an NCAA Tournament game.
Jan 13, 2014, 3:23 PM
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Like it or not, that's something Purnell was unable to do at Clemson (or anywhere else, to date).
For the record, I think a lot of OP, and appreciate the success he had at Clemson. While OP is a great program builder, I feel that Brownell is a better basketball coach.
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Legend [16539]
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OP's secret formula = Demontez Stitt
Jan 10, 2014, 3:55 PM
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It wasn't until he joined the team that we played over .500 in the league (2007-2008) during OP's tenure, which we also haven't accomplished since he left.
I enjoyed the wins and the pace under OP but it was excruciating watching us get out-coached/schemed/played/etc. in the post-season. Despite our shortcomings over the past few seasons as the program continues to retool, once this style cracks the offensive hump it's going to be dangerous. I'm willing to suffer through some mostly close losses in the interim as we find our way there.
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All-In [27446]
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Re: OP's secret formula = Demontez Stitt
Jan 10, 2014, 4:08 PM
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Anyone noticed how the free throw shooting has improved?OP's guys couldn't make a key free throw ... ever...
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Legend [16260]
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Orange Blooded [3835]
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I'd like to respond with KC Rivers
Jan 13, 2014, 2:28 PM
[ in reply to OP's secret formula = Demontez Stitt ] |
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I know Tim Bourret is not on TNet, but I believe he is the winningest basketball player in Tiger history.
We need more Oak Hill guys even if they are the 5th through 8th best players on the team
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All-TigerNet [13105]
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It has been the style of every successful coach.....
Jan 10, 2014, 4:25 PM
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in Clemson history. At least since I started following it 40+ years ago.
There was a slogan during one of our heydays
"Our Mission is Transition."
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Only Tates Locke successfully signed real basketball players
Jan 10, 2014, 5:09 PM
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... Tates Locke was successful getting genuine ACC caliber players to Littlejohn.
But, only for a while and at a steep price.
Without Tates' strategies, Clemson has only signed "athletes", "projects", "JUCOs" and the occasional "over-rated, under-performing 5-star" ...
The road to success at Clemson is long, steep, and full of incredible challenges.
The University has to decide that basketball success is a real priority, the fans and supporters have to accept the decision and finance it, and the AD has to sell the idea to a coach who has the patience and ability to shepherd the program along until it happens.
And then the fans, supporters, and administration have to give the coach time to make it happen.
Good luck on all that happening at Clemson.
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Orange Blooded [3835]
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Amen, Apex the FANS have to make it happen****
Jan 13, 2014, 2:28 PM
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CU Guru [1845]
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Brownell style is very similar to Tony Bennett at UVA
Jan 12, 2014, 10:34 AM
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This system can work
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110%er [5307]
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Overall not a bad turnover game. Get real
Jan 12, 2014, 11:15 AM
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Brown ell finally has his recruits and it will only get better
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CU Guru [1407]
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Original poster equals a fool's post
Jan 12, 2014, 11:35 AM
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Coach BB is 10 times the coach that OP is or was. Clemson just beat number #16 Duke and didn't do it by athletes swarming to try and get turnovers against Duke. Coach BB made great adjustments at halftime something OP could never do.
It burns me up to read opinions that have no inkling of merit to support them.
OP hit his ceiling... never developed players... could not design an effective play after a timeout. He was a one trick pony that often got exposed.
Coach BB has done more with much less.
But for the naysayers... why not flip the ###### and think of clemson Basketball this way. It is a physical defensive minded, fundamentally sound peogram that plays hard and wins with defense and affecting the opponent.
That is what many of you than experts cry for from football.
Embrace the team or get out of the dang way.
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CU Guru [1407]
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Re: Original poster equals a fool's post
Jan 12, 2014, 11:36 AM
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So the word ###### gets ###### out. Why?
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: Original poster equals a fool's post
Jan 12, 2014, 4:33 PM
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s c r i p t is HTML coding, so it is "censored" to not mess up the page or post.
It burns me up to read opinions that have no inkling of merit to support them.
OP hit his ceiling... never developed players... could not design an effective play after a timeout.
You talk about being burned up and then do the same thing. OP developed players. Sykes could barely catch or rebound when he showed up on campus. He grew into a a good defender and starter on an NCAA Tournament team. Oglesby learned how to pass and create some for himself between freshman and sophomore year. Booker came in raw. He grew into his body - sophomore year he started to hit a mid range shot, junior year was more depth on the shot and defense, and senior year he was able to do what he wanted with his right hand and shot 40% from 3. Demontez shot around 40% from the field his first 2 years and 27% from 3 - he developed his junior year to shoot 45% from the field and 39% from 3. Those are just some examples off the top of the head on development.
Let's not get into in bound plays. That is still a struggle for us with Rod inbounding at times. We had to burn 2 timeouts on one last year and then the board lost it (i.e. blamed Milton) when he had to go to his 3rd option, Milton, for an ugly shot.
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Zealot [868]
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Where were the adjustments in the FSU game?
Jan 12, 2014, 12:36 PM
[ in reply to Original poster equals a fool's post ] |
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I swear the man wins one game and now he's better than a guy that had us playing some of the best basketball we've ever played as a program.
You say BB has done more with less.
OP took us to the post season his second year and every year after that. We all know the program was in shambles when he took over.
Brownell has already missed the post season once more than OP did in only three years. His first year was with a loaded team assembled by OP.
I have been to several games this season and watch every game from the edge of my seat pulling for Brownell and our team but sorry, not gonna crown the man coach of the year over one win.
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Legend [17980]
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Respect and appreciate your loyalty to Basketball ...
Jan 12, 2014, 4:41 PM
[ in reply to Original poster equals a fool's post ] |
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I hope Brownell is starting to turn the corner with Duke win.
Unfortunately, thousands of would-be Clemson basketball fans have gotten out of the way over the decades. Blind loyalty is like fool's gold - it's shiny but worthless.
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Orange Blooded [3835]
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One coach won, one coach has not
Jan 13, 2014, 2:30 PM
[ in reply to Original poster equals a fool's post ] |
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Why would you have this debate? Just check the won/loss records and that should tell you all you need to know
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CU Guru [1407]
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fyi the word is s c r i p t.***
Jan 12, 2014, 11:36 AM
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CU Guru [1099]
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Obvious is obvious
Jan 12, 2014, 4:19 PM
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your "bias" is showing
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Legend [16260]
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How's that smoke and mirrors working out for OP in a
Jan 12, 2014, 4:25 PM
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Basketball Mecca? Brad recruited a better Chicagoan than he has.
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CU Guru [1407]
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development of players...
Jan 12, 2014, 5:18 PM
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Not crowning him a GOAT... the debate is BB vs OP.
I will go back and compare BB and OP via...
Improvement of free throw shooting
development of Jarai Grant or Bobo BB vs OP
Shooting % of players Yrs 1 to ? BB vs OP (James mays never developed offensive skills over 4 years)
How is OP doing at a basketball school DePaul?
How well did OP recruit his last years at Clemson?
I see that we will agree to disagree. I will take BB's focus on fundamentals and defense over OP's press and pray approach to the game.
Do you really think he taught Terrence how to press? Everyone screamed the TO was a liability on defense.
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: development of players...
Jan 12, 2014, 5:38 PM
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Let's not act like Jerai was terrible and poorly used by OP. He simply played second fiddle to Booker. He had to wait his time behind Mays and Sykes to see more court time, but grew every year. We ran 4 around 1 through Book, so Jerai did not get the touches like he did his senior year. It was a system and having a better player thing. Jerai led the team in FG % his sophomore year, so it isn't like he had zero game when OP was here.
I will give you that Baciu improved much more with Brownell. However, I don't think anyone would argue Tanner Smith, for example, saw drastic improvement from OP to BB. I did show shooting percentage that I looked on players who improved with OP too already.
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Zealot [868]
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Who cares what OP is doing at DePaul
Jan 12, 2014, 5:40 PM
[ in reply to development of players... ] |
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He took a program in shambles and turned it into a consistent 20+ win tournament team.
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Legend [16260]
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Why hasn't he been able to duplicate that at a school with
Jan 12, 2014, 6:02 PM
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better tradition and a FAR better recruiting base?
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CU Guru [1262]
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Re: OP had the right formula to compete at Clemson. Get the best
Jan 12, 2014, 6:31 PM
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Grantham and Devoe say "hello". These 2 guys can score the basketball.
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Amateur [49]
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