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Replies: 44
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Orange Blooded [2673]
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Patience and Loyalty
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Sep 26, 2023, 7:03 AM
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This team is young and on the cusp of greatness, all with players that have been coached and nurtured at Clemson.
FSU had 17 “QT”s (QUIT TRANSFER) players in starting positions. Loyalty will pay off for our team. Coaching up these young athletes will lead to a cohesive championship team. Just watch…
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Walk-On [123]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
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Sep 26, 2023, 7:06 AM
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Excellent post 👍👍👍
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Orange Blooded [2673]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
Sep 26, 2023, 12:18 PM
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Thank you.
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Orange Blooded [2055]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
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Sep 26, 2023, 7:25 AM
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Maybe, but I can tell you that I will be reducing my ongoing investment in the football program during this "maturing" process. I've been deep into this team for two+ decades (IPTAY and multiple tickets in lowers) and this decline was totally avoidable. It doesn't deserve the same level of support it once did.
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Walk-On [123]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
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Sep 26, 2023, 7:28 AM
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Good for you.
If you got season tickets you wanna give away plus a couple of parking passes; I'm your huckleberry👍
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Orange Blooded [2055]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
Sep 26, 2023, 7:32 AM
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Dig deep and pay what I got in them and they're yours. I'll even pro-rate the IPTAY for you.
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Walk-On [123]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
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Sep 26, 2023, 7:35 AM
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NAH; you stated YOU were "cutting back" on your "imagined" contributions so I was expecting to get them for free👍
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Orange Blooded [2055]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
Sep 26, 2023, 7:39 AM
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5 figures for years now. Dropped 1 large at the "lodge" this weekend too. Maybe some of you posters here who only watch games on TV , buy a Walmart t-shirt once a year and don't drop a dime in Clemson on game weekends should pipe down a bit.
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Walk-On [123]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
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Sep 26, 2023, 7:42 AM
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"IT WAS REAL IN MY MIND" 👈 literally you 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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110%er [9656]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
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Sep 26, 2023, 8:23 AM
[ in reply to Re: Patience and Loyalty ] |
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Your comment seems to be a reoccurring theme of some delusional excitement that things are about to get cheaper. It reminds me of people rooting for a downturn in the economy so that homes will become more affordable. Maybe someone will just give you a home and a car for free if that happens. The reality is Clemson football is declining, chances are the economy is getting tighter too but tickets and homes won’t be close to any cheaper.
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Walk-On [123]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
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Sep 26, 2023, 8:26 AM
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Words & Such
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Athletic Dir [865]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
Sep 26, 2023, 12:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: Patience and Loyalty ] |
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Homes get more affordable and then you find that you are upside down in your mortgage and can't take advantage. Such is team building. There is no such thing as creative destruction. All of the resources used to repair what was destroyed could have been used to increase instead of replace.
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Legend [16929]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
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Sep 26, 2023, 7:50 AM
[ in reply to Re: Patience and Loyalty ] |
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If you’ve been paying in for over 2 decades how can you begin to think you haven’t gotten your money’s worth? How did you justify the investment for the first decade if this last 3 years is so terrible you want to walk away. Makes no sense at all. I get bandwagoners that jumped in after 2018 and went straight to loge boxes or something might be disappointed they didn’t time the market better. But if you’ve been here that long you should have a little perspective. And if it’s your perception of the direction of the program try and remember where you say this program heading under Coach Swinney after the South Florida loss in 2010. You couldn’t possibly have been more positive that you are now.
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Orange Blooded [2055]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
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Sep 26, 2023, 8:12 AM
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Because when I was paying IPTAY and buying 6 (sometimes 8) tickets in the lowers my family was younger, the expectations of the team were lower and the overall cost was easier to justify. But once we started paying coaches like a top-tier program, raising IPTAY fees, but the product on the field matched the increasing price it was still worth it. Now that we're literally in the bottom of the ACC, IPTAY is yet more expensive with comically bad execution on tix (hate ticketmaster) and parking passes and the family has other interests, it has quickly become a losing proposition. Sprinkle in a few comments from the staff that are disconnected from reality and it all starts to seem like a bit of a waste. I think Dabo has lost his edge and increasingly his place in the college football relevancy. He was the right guy at the right time for our run, but now he seems like a guy buying time until his last son uses up his eligibility. I've done my part financially to support Clemson football. More than most. I can watch on TV and be happy enough. Like most of the posters here that will attempt to tell me that I am a "bandwagon fan". The same posters that have never spent a dime on IPTAY, tickets or at a Clemson business on a game weekend.
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Walk-On [123]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
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Sep 26, 2023, 8:17 AM
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That was alot of words; too bad I didn't read 'em👍😊
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Legend [16929]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
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Sep 26, 2023, 11:05 AM
[ in reply to Re: Patience and Loyalty ] |
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I really was asking sincerely even if it came off as incredulous. I took you at face value so wasn't accusing you of being one of the bandwagon fans. I just can understand their aggravation though I'm completely unsympathetic too it. They've driven up the costs for fans like you or pushed you to further reaches of the stadium. It sounds like you have a lot of negative factors converging and I completely agree with most of them. I have a large family and it's not just the expense it's the opportunity costs. They're all over the state with different activities happening, particularly on weekends in the fall. GT and UNC are the only two games my wife and I could possibly attend together and only half of the kids could join for that one. I loathe Ticketmaster too. I just don't buy into the "Dabo has lost his edge" stuff yet. Since he isn't going anywhere soon I'd like to think we both hope I'm right on that regardless of our actual predictions. Hope you enjoy what's left of the season and it gives you something to change the outlook.
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Orange Blooded [2055]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
Sep 26, 2023, 4:57 PM
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I didn't read your comments as an indictment. Yeah, I hope you're right and Dabo gets this ship righted, but unfortunately I just don't see it happening with him and his current coaching staff. And I honestly believe he quits when Clay is done. I just don't want to be gaslighted for three more years (or more)while this plays out and while I am spending what I am currently spending. I'll still be a fan for sure, but I'll pull back and let some of these other posters here step into the breach. (LOL, they won't).
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Legend [16160]
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Disclaimer: This guy above thought the Upper Deck and the
Sep 26, 2023, 2:21 PM
[ in reply to Re: Patience and Loyalty ] |
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Top Deck were two separate areas of Death Valley
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Orange Blooded [3004]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
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Sep 26, 2023, 8:15 AM
[ in reply to Re: Patience and Loyalty ] |
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You’re trying to call out fair weather fans when you yourself are acting like one. Weird move. Hope it works out for ya though.
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Orange Blooded [2055]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
Sep 26, 2023, 8:20 AM
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Not sure how you got that from my posts, but you do you.
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Orange Blooded [3004]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
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Sep 26, 2023, 8:28 AM
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Team begins to perform lower than your expectations, thus you decide to lose interest. That is the definition of fair weather.
If you view it as an on the field product, then sure, I can understand your decision to not “invest.” This just comes across as “I’ve been in the market for a while, now it’s in a slow decline so I’ll back out.” Again, hope it works for you. I’m sure you’ll be the first to use those IPTAY points for a NY6 bowl game this season if that happens by a miracle.
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Walk-On [123]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
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Sep 26, 2023, 8:39 AM
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Dollars to doughnuts; accounts who post about their grandiose "investments" into CU football are full of it.
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Orange Blooded [2055]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
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Sep 26, 2023, 10:04 AM
[ in reply to Re: Patience and Loyalty ] |
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LOL, OK chief. I view CLemson football as investment of my time and money. In return I expect something partially fun and rewarding. It's been little of both for awhile ow -and especially this year. If you want to treat it like your church or religion, i guess that is you business
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Orange Blooded [3004]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
Sep 26, 2023, 12:28 PM
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Was it fun when you started going 20 years ago?
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All-In [44055]
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Dabo said that these players will win a national championship or two.
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Sep 26, 2023, 8:43 AM
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So I guess we should be excited.
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Walk-On [123]
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Re: Dabo said that these players will win a national championship or two.
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Sep 26, 2023, 8:44 AM
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Ole' Fudge P. Smeller 🤣🤣🤣👍
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Legend [16929]
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Re: Dabo said that these players will win a national championship or two.
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Sep 26, 2023, 11:32 AM
[ in reply to Dabo said that these players will win a national championship or two. ] |
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Last time I remember him explicitly saying we'd win another it happened two years later. How many more years does Brad need to make an ACC final? How much more money? He's the third longest tenured coach in the League. Both ahead of him have been ACC champs and have won ACC Coach of the Year honors. If we're gonna keep a guy around that long shouldn't he have similar accomplishments? Especially when the longest tenured one - Leonard Hamilton - is coaching a a "football school" with every disadvantage you claim Brownell has.
Given the extreme similarities in program histories and relative support of football and basketball I think a comparison of our coaches' success against FSU is of value. The Clemson basketball team has, pre-Brownell, won 33% of their matchups with FSU. Under Brownell they are 11-17 or winning 39% of the time. Prior to Dabo, Clemson was 6-16 against FSU or 27%. Since becoming full time head coach he is 9-5 or 64%. Mike Norvell makes $8 million dollars a year and has never won a title of any kind. So complaining about Dabo's salary seems more than a little disingenuous. And their assistant salaries in 2022, most recent available, were almost identical to Clemson. I think it is plain to see which investment has paid dividends.
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110%er [8540]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
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Sep 26, 2023, 8:45 AM
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Patience and loyalty have nothing to do with transfers. If your hang-up is the Portal, you are in trouble.
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Legend [19586]
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The team will be perpetually young
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Sep 26, 2023, 8:47 AM
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because we lose 10-15 players to the portal every year and replace them with high school kids and walkons. We've been getting younger each of the last 4 years.
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All-In [44055]
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As has our coaching staff (in terms of experience anyway)***
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Sep 26, 2023, 8:52 AM
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Legend [19586]
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Both experience and age for coaches.***
Sep 26, 2023, 8:58 AM
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Orange Blooded [3004]
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Re: The team will be perpetually young
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Sep 26, 2023, 8:58 AM
[ in reply to The team will be perpetually young ] |
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10-15 a year?? Dude… where do you even get this number?! We’ve lost like 12 players over the course of 5 years.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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no we haven't.....we're averaging a loss of 8.4 players
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Sep 26, 2023, 9:05 AM
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to the portal the last 5 years.............where are you getting 12 total????????
we lost 12 between the '22-23 season alone. We lost 11 the year before...........educate yourself and don't be ignorant
https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/TransferPortal/?institutionkey=24008
Allen
Wiles
collins
swint
williams
green
dudley
DJ
bentley
davis
pace
reuben
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Orange Blooded [3004]
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Re: no we haven't.....we're averaging a loss of 8.4 players
Sep 26, 2023, 12:27 PM
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Didn’t realize those players added so much to our team. Thought we were talking about starters and two deep. My apologies.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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it's a numbers game and voided schollies being replaced.....
Sep 26, 2023, 1:59 PM
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by High School and/or Walk-ons as opposed to experienced and/or talented transfers.
you're talking about an average of 8 "YOUNG" players (when they're not walk-ons) per class...........that's about 1/3 of an entire recruiting class transferring out PER YEAR over the last FIVE years.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: The team will be perpetually young
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Sep 26, 2023, 9:18 AM
[ in reply to Re: The team will be perpetually young ] |
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We lost 11 in 2021/2022 and 12 in 2022/2023.
I didn't make it up. It's facts.
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110%er [5306]
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Re: The team will be perpetually young
Sep 26, 2023, 9:32 AM
[ in reply to The team will be perpetually young ] |
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Isn't that because the vast majority of our transfers have been upper classmen getting passed on the depth chart by said younger players, who are more talented? Minus Mellusi, DK, and on a stretch Patterson, have any of the players that transferred out actually done anything? When I look at the depth chart for Saturday I see only 5 that are either true sophomore or freshman. Unfortunately the most important position, QB is one of them and he should've gotten more PT last year but hindsight is 20/20
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Legend [19586]
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Great teams aren't built on just the starters
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Sep 26, 2023, 10:17 AM
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It's built on depth. And we've lost a ton of it. It affects a myriad of things from in game effectiveness to spring and fall camp competition. Iron sharpens iron. DJU was the first starting Clemson QB to not go through a QB competition since Will Proctor. And it showed. We had 4 or 5 QBs leave the program between 2018 and 2020 and that hurt us rather badly.
Those 20-30 players that we've lost to the portal and replaced with immaturity since 2020 don't need to be starters to impact this roster.
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Head Coach [798]
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Re: Great teams aren't built on just the starters
Sep 26, 2023, 12:23 PM
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Other than Kobe Pace, the kid who got kicked off the team and the other two DBs that were run off for drag racing on 123, who on that list is worth getting depth from compared to playing a younger player who can be a starter/star?
One of the biggest changes that needs to happen in the new world of college football is that for every player that enters the portal before signing day, that school should get to increase their signing class by one as long as you stay under 85 scholarships. There is no reason to limit signing classes anymore. If you have 50 returning you take 35 new ones- either from HS, Juco or another school.
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All-TigerNet [10640]
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Legend [19586]
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Please enlighten me then***
Sep 26, 2023, 10:13 AM
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Legend [16929]
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Re: The team will be perpetually young
Sep 26, 2023, 2:00 PM
[ in reply to The team will be perpetually young ] |
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we're not replacing them with walkons. there is an argument to be made about the value of experience but you're clearly trying to imply we're downgrading talent. All recruiting assessments say otherwise. The rank of our total team talent has increased since 2020 not decreased. And, the availability of players with bonus eligibility shrinks to pre-covid norms completely by 2025 with a diminishing number of players every year. The 2nd time FBS transfer restriction is also going to bring more caution to jumping in the portal. This is the first year that the NCAA is back to enforcing it and they appear to be sticking to their guns.
Then you have to look at who is leaving. In 2022 we lost 2 4* recruits. TJ Dudley who obviously would not have started at linebacker this year and is not on the depth chart at Ole Miss. He is only one year out of high school. So we're only losing 1 year of practice experience there.
DJU is the other - might have been nice to have him stick around as a backup but that wasn't happening whether we're using the word "portal" or not.
The rest are 3 stars
Malcolm Green - left with 2 seasons of eligibility remaining. Made more starts as a freshman than a junior. Is currently the 2nd string right corner back at Virginia. Would definitely not be starting this year. Possibly a starter in 2024. Is a graduate so would have been able to transfer unconditionally under previous transfer rules.
Etinosa Reuben - Redshirted for us in 2019. left with 2 seasons eligibility. He's the 4th defensive end on the GT depth chart. Almost certainly would have never started at Clemson.
Kobe Pace - RB transfer to Virginia. left with 2 years remaining. Would never have started at Clemson
Fred Davis - CB. Two years remaining. Already transferred a second time and is third string LCB at UCF. Would never have started at Clemson.
Vonta Bentley - left with 1 year remaining. would not have started this year at linebacker. currently second string linebacker at Colorado
EJ williams - 2 years eligibity remaining when left. Starting wide receiver for Indiana. This is one we might like to have held onto.
Kevin Swint - 2 years remaining. Backup linebacker for Georgia State now. Would never have started at Clemson.
Dacari Collins - 2 years remaining - no covid eligibility. Currently listed at 3rd as WR at NC State. With new talent and incoming talent very unlikely to have made two deep but maybe with injuries you like to keep this one.
Billy Wiles - QB. C'mon.
Sergio Allen - 3 years remaining. Backup LB at California. played a total of 31 snaps over 2 seasons. Not a significant loss of veteran experience. Unlikely to have ever started
Long before it was called portal - upper classmen who weren't going to break into the starting lineup were already transferring at a steady clip. we're substituting age and experience for high school recruits amongst our backup ranks. Those high school recruits are by large higher ranked than the departing players. Of all those 12 players there are only 2 that would have any chance of meaningfully contributing this year and that's only cause of injuries.
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All-Conference [410]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
Sep 26, 2023, 9:14 AM
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How long is the PATIENCE Leash for the some of this coaching staff? Even Dabo , how do YOU not tell Cade to run the ball on 3rd & 1 , not this “We got to do a better job as coaches there.” Wish you had started BEFORE that play.
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CU Guru [1025]
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Re: Patience and Loyalty
Sep 26, 2023, 3:46 PM
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Someone who matters would have to be impatient.
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Hall of Famer [24613]
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+1 for Quit transfers!!!***
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Sep 26, 2023, 9:18 AM
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Replies: 44
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