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Replies: 13
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Asst Coach [702]
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Downfield passing
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Sep 16, 2023, 8:39 PM
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I played middle linebacker, so I'm not an offensive coordinator making millions, clearly, but can anyone tell me why we love the flats so much? I mean it's like running the football in the 4th qtr when it hasn't worked. You have to do it just for the threat. Why not take more shots down the field even if it isn't working (crazy thing is it does, hence brown 30 seconds ago)?
Amen, just now another curl route to Collins. Let the kid sling it. Quit hamstringing him.
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Orange Blooded [4082]
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Re: Downfield passing
Sep 16, 2023, 8:42 PM
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Agreed
I hate any throw behind the line of scrimmage especially to a RB. Unless a check-down after looking downfield
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Asst Coach [708]
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Re: Downfield passing
Sep 16, 2023, 8:43 PM
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I think we do have receivers running deeper routes, and they often get open. I think Cade is having a hard time seeing them. Could it potentially be the height?
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All-Pro [666]
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Re: Downfield passing
Sep 16, 2023, 8:46 PM
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Same height as deshaun. Taller than Tajh. Both had the downfield game. Has to be what the oline is giving him time for…. He needs to run some more which may bring the corners and linebackers up and opens down field.
So far he’s doing well. Maybe he just needs the reps to show us who he is..
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All-Conference [434]
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Re: Downfield passing
Sep 16, 2023, 8:44 PM
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Because it’s what teams are giving Clemson. For 2 seasons, teams have been able to stack the middle of the field because they don’t respect Clemson in the pass game. Leaving nothing but those flat routes because it’s where we have the numbers.
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Asst Coach [702]
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Re: Downfield passing
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Sep 16, 2023, 9:17 PM
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Just not true. Cover 1, cover 2, there's downfield routes for every coverage. The play designs are outside. It isn't where he's looking or the time he has.
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All-Conference [434]
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Re: Downfield passing
Sep 16, 2023, 9:20 PM
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I’m not saying that routes aren’t called for it. I’m sure they are. WRs just aren’t getting open. Whether it’s lack of separation, crisp route running or the bodies not adding up in their favor. Teams are doing what they can to take the middle of the field away. Only way to fix it is to over correct with playcalling and call those quick hitters to the outside to get the defense to respect it and open those middle throwing lanes open again.
We’ve seen that happen a lot better these past 2 weeks. Teams are having to respect sideline to sideline more and it’s opening those routes up the middle.
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Head Coach [772]
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Re: Downfield passing
Sep 22, 2023, 9:24 AM
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The numbers always stack up for flat passing or sideline screens but that's only on the front end...break a tackle and next play maybe you move a olb a few steps but that's all...completed passes in the deep b ones open up the whole field and you usually have to beat one cb or safety..shallow middle boxes compromise linebackers and open the field for running...often thought that buttonholes to Davis Allen could have done to defenses what Renfrow did so well!
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All-Conference [434]
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Re: Downfield passing
Sep 16, 2023, 9:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: Downfield passing ] |
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I’m not saying that routes aren’t called for it. I’m sure they are. WRs just aren’t getting open. Whether it’s lack of separation, crisp route running or the bodies not adding up in their favor. Teams are doing what they can to take the middle of the field away. Only way to fix it is to over correct with playcalling and call those quick hitters to the outside to get the defense to respect it and open those middle throwing lanes open again.
We’ve seen that happen a lot better these past 2 weeks. Teams are having to respect sideline to sideline more and it’s opening those routes up the middle.
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Asst Coach [702]
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Re: Downfield passing
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Sep 22, 2023, 5:04 AM
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That's not what's happening. A designed screen to the sideline isn't a downfield play. It's literally designed that way. When Cade catches the snap and immediately looks straight to the sideline, that isn't a 5-7 step drop and reading the field. It seems that you're thinking he's reading the whole field and checking it down, taking what they give. He isn't. Throwing a curl route a WR sits in, or hitting a slant over a blitzing LB is doing what the Defense forces you to. This isn't that.
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110%er [5076]
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Re: Downfield passing
Sep 22, 2023, 6:48 AM
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Sometimes the spread WR set and the immediate QB look to the flat is to cause the secondary to anticipate screen and give the deep WR(s) time to get into his route. The QB doesn't look for the deep WR until the timing for completion requires it.
If you can freeze the secondary or cause them to edge toward the flats, the deep route has a much better chance.
The problem we've faced for much of the season so far is defenses are using 2 deep safeties, which makes the deep routes much less likely to be successful.
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All-Conference [434]
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Re: Downfield passing
Sep 22, 2023, 8:54 AM
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That’s the point I’ve been trying to make. Clemson is having to take what the defense is giving them. Deep pass plays aren’t there, so plays are having to go sideline to sideline and when they do call those downfield passing plays, Cade is having to work off of it and go check down because it’s what’s there.
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110%er [5076]
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Re: Downfield passing
Sep 22, 2023, 9:54 AM
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Yes, but your point that all of these sideline passes are designed plays is not always accurate.
Sometimes we do call a designed sideline pass in order to either draw in or spread out the secondary to either set up a passing play designed for a crossing route, slant or deep shot - or to just wear out the secondary.
Other times, the defense has our receivers covered and the safety WR or RB in the flat is the only safe pass - even if the first option intent is a deep route. This is happening a lot with the coverage of 2-deep safeties, so the combination of intentional screens and safe dump-offs makes it appear that we are screen-happy. We're not intentionally using that strategy - it's what we're left with when our WRs are not finding green grass.
I do think the WRs are doing a better job finding holes in coverage at around 15 yards deep with mesh and crossing routes, but I don't think Cade is seeing them come open soon enough. Sometimes the WRs run through the green grass into coverage instead of loitering in the open area.
Either Cade needs to anticipate the WR separation a little quicker and throw them open as they break, or the WRs need to slow down or stop in the open areas to give Gade time to find them and judge whether or not he can make the throw safely. This is one thing that Hunter Renfrow and Jordan Leggett were very good at doing.
Some of this lack of success is due to a young QB without experience with his receivers, but some of it is coaching. It is correctable and I do hope we'll see some more improvement against FSU. If we can hit those middle crosses and slants, we can get some chunk yardage and have a very good chance of beating FSU. If not, I don't think our chances are very good.
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Orange Blooded [4033]
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Re: Downfield passing
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Sep 22, 2023, 10:04 AM
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They are giving us the flats and playing 2 high safeties and our guys aren’t making plays in space.
2 reasons for that:
1. Our perimeter blocking is not very good
2. Our RB and WR’s don’t possess elite speed
You can exploit the flat with speed or blocking but when you lack both it’s trouble
Speed is recruiting and blocking is really just coaching.
I think you will see more play action and jet sweep motion to bait the safeties to cheat up out of position, but if we want an established vertical passing game we have to make them pay a few times when we are in space out in the flats
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