Replies: 45
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Mrs Brownell Keller,
Feb 9, 2020, 9:32 PM
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If you can come here to say look, look, look, BB won, surely you can come to Tnets to say look, look, look, BB lost! You can’t only defend Brownell when he wins. You also have to understand others frustration and the reality that under Brownell, Clemson Basketball has regressed. The support is there, the resources are there and there is no excuse left to defend.
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Hall of Famer [21853]
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Get ready to hear the same ol’ same ol’.
Feb 9, 2020, 9:41 PM
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Clemson Basketball history...
Clemson fan support...
Facilities just got better...
Brownlee is recruiting better now...
Brownlee just beat 3 Hall of Fame Coaches with less talent...
Blah blah blah blah.
~JKB
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Get ready to hear the same ol’ same ol’.
Feb 9, 2020, 9:43 PM
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But. But, but, he won at North Carolina!
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110%er [7559]
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Re: Get ready to hear the same ol’ same ol’.
Feb 9, 2020, 9:46 PM
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Yes....guess that only tells you how bad UNCheat sucks this year.....Go Tigers!!!!
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Hall of Famer [21853]
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It is nice to end that streak, but it took the chokiest team in UNCheat history to do it.
Feb 9, 2020, 9:49 PM
[ in reply to Re: Get ready to hear the same ol’ same ol’. ] |
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The best way to beat this year’s UNCheat team is to be down to them by 8 or more with a minute left in regulation.
And Brownlee is great at putting our team in that scenario pretty much every game.
~JKB
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: It is nice to end that streak, but it took the chokiest team in UNCheat history to do it.
Feb 9, 2020, 9:52 PM
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If you remember, in the Bowden days, I’m dozens of games we were literally only one play away!
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Hall of Famer [21853]
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I started Clemson in 2002. So yeah, I remember the Bowden days.
Feb 9, 2020, 10:04 PM
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A never-ending nightmare of futility.
These lucky students today got it made. I stood on The Hill in 100 degree misery to watch Clemson lose 30-0 to Ugga.
These punk students who don’t even attend games when we never lose blow my mind.
GET OFF MY LAWN!!!
~JKB
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CU Guru [1260]
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Hall of Famer [23048]
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He's man enough not to call out posters
Feb 10, 2020, 7:38 PM
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Don't understand the need to eat our own. Judge is a basketball fan. Supports the program. Let him enjoy it. No need to be a brat and berate a fan.
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Oculus Spirit [77466]
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Re: He's man enough not to call out posters
Feb 10, 2020, 8:15 PM
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He’s a low life and clearly not a Clemson fan. I say run him off T-net.
Somebody had to say it.
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CU Guru [1260]
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I see what you did there.***
Feb 10, 2020, 9:26 PM
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CU Guru [1260]
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Well you're right in premise, but he/she shouldn't post
Feb 10, 2020, 9:25 PM
[ in reply to He's man enough not to call out posters ] |
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antagonism in the wins if he/she doesn't expect to receive the same in losses. He/she has often attacked many people and attempted to "eat our own". ### for tat, I guess.
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Oculus Spirit [77466]
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Re: Well you're right in premise, but he/she shouldn't post
Feb 10, 2020, 9:43 PM
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JK defends the program. He’s a loyal fan. Way more than man and many others. I find the accusation he antagonizes an over each.
Flame away.
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All-In [44121]
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Okay, let's assume that Brad was fired today.
Feb 10, 2020, 8:21 PM
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Who do you think Clemson should go after? Give me five names.
What do you want to offer the coach in terms of yearly salary?
What do you feel that Clemson offers this coach that he doesn't have at his current job (assuming he's currently employed)?
What is your long-term plan to retain him, if/when other schools are interested?
Let's see what you come up with.
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110%er [5045]
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Re: Okay, let's assume that Brad was fired today.
Feb 10, 2020, 8:33 PM
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1. Gary Williams ( knows the Acc and isnt currently coaching
2. Rick Majerus( well know coach- currently not coaching) probably wants to get back in the game
3. Pete Bell
4. Cliff Ellis ( proved he can win here and could quickly become all-time winningest coach)
5. Have the A..D. do his job and hire someone?
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110%er [6825]
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Hall of Famer [24648]
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Hall of Famer [21853]
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And given the opportunity...
Feb 10, 2020, 9:18 PM
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He could lead this team to an 11-12 record or better in his current condition.
~JKB
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Orange Blooded [4049]
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Re: And given the opportunity...
Feb 10, 2020, 9:25 PM
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Good one.
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Oculus Spirit [82147]
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All-In [44121]
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Re: Okay, let's assume that Brad was fired today.
Feb 11, 2020, 2:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: Okay, let's assume that Brad was fired today. ] |
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I thought you were serious until you listed Pete Bell.
I wasn't looking forward to telling you that Rick Majerus is dead.
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Orange Blooded [4049]
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answer.
Feb 10, 2020, 9:29 PM
[ in reply to Okay, let's assume that Brad was fired today. ] |
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Pay - same as BB makes Who - do t have the foggiest idea. Not my job. But, that being said - get me a dynamic, fun loving, motivator that can relate to and embrace the students, build friendships with donors and alumni, bring fun into the game, have some energy and emotion. I can live with a bit of on the job training. Aka Dabo. (Yes, I know that is the 1 in million), but what not at least TRY!!!!!!!!
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Legend [19737]
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First, you offer Brad an administrative job
Feb 10, 2020, 10:01 PM
[ in reply to Okay, let's assume that Brad was fired today. ] |
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if he wants it. Great guy, loyal to Clemson. Can leave for any coaching gig he wants or retire here.
If/when we make a move, I've been on the record to go outside the box. Dont make our normal mid-major hire. First, see if some successful guy not coaching may be ready to jump back in. Motta would be my first call. Look at the NBA. Is a Donavan tired of OKC and losing? Any assistants with college head coaching experience? This type hire would require major dollars. Brad's buyout is now peanuts. The money is there. Throw it at a big name and make them say no. This is the administrative commitment you speak so often about. Brad is making about what he should make, his success does not warrant more. We can afford more. This type move gives the program a prestige it's never had.
You can't do that, can't find anyone, look to a Greg Buckner. NBA coaching experience. Heck, bring Tree in as an assistant. He's a grad now with extensive NBA coaching experience and WNBA head coaching experience. Guys who love the program with a new energy and focus. Hire the recruiters.
As you've pointed out consistently our history is a tough obstacle to overcome. It's time to think outside of our normal box, throw caution to the wind. Honestly, what is there to lose? To change the culture, a new way of thinking has to emerge.
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CU Guru [1241]
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Re: First, you offer Brad an administrative job
Feb 11, 2020, 12:21 PM
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tree is in his early 60's. not that that's so old (younger than me), but i doubt he'd want the grind of recruiting. there are younger guys out there with CU ties... wes long, jd powell, tanner smith, andre young, TO, xavier anderson.. who have coaching experience.
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All-In [44121]
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I agree 100% about going after a proven coach
Feb 11, 2020, 2:25 PM
[ in reply to First, you offer Brad an administrative job ] |
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who has had success at the major college level. We shouldn't continue going the mid-major route, hoping that the coach is successful here.
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Walk-On [116]
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Re: First, you offer Brad an administrative job
Feb 13, 2020, 1:16 PM
[ in reply to First, you offer Brad an administrative job ] |
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Rick Pitino? Checks all the boxes, but with just a few morality issues to work around. I'm only half kidding.
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Legend [16963]
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Re: Okay, let's assume that Brad was fired today.
Feb 10, 2020, 10:43 PM
[ in reply to Okay, let's assume that Brad was fired today. ] |
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All 4 questions are boiler plate straw man argument. He isn’t in control of the hiring process. Asking this question is a logical fallacy. Those of us who care more about Clemson basketball than Brownell’s bank account know that a change is needed. That change may be better, worse, or status quo. We have no control over that. But 10 years is more than enough time to understand what we will get from this coach. Magical thinking about the future isn’t going to change that. A month ago we were all supposed to wait and see how this season plays out. Now that it is playing out exactly as those of us ready to move on suspected you’ve moved back into your full throated defense of Brownell - results be ######. It couldn’t be more apparent that you don’t actually care one iota about the success of this program.
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All-TigerNet [14511]
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Re: Okay, let's assume that Brad was fired today.
Feb 10, 2020, 10:44 PM
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3 more days vizcoot
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All-In [44121]
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That's not correct. I honestly want to know how the OP
Feb 11, 2020, 2:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: Okay, let's assume that Brad was fired today. ] |
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would answer those questions.
It's also funny how you make everything you don't like a logical fallacy, yet you committed several in your post. HTH.
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Athletic Dir [864]
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Re: Okay, let's assume that Brad was fired today.
Feb 10, 2020, 10:43 PM
[ in reply to Okay, let's assume that Brad was fired today. ] |
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Not to pile on, Judge, because I do respect your passion for the program and the sport in general but your stance is a little weak. It would be like me going to work and saying "Yeah, I know this guy sucks but I can't let him go because I don't have anyone better to replace him with". It's just time for a fresh start with the program and to hire a coach that can breathe a little life into the program. Someone who can at least bring a more exciting brand of basketball to the table. As far as names, I don't have any. I would leave that in the more than capable hands of those who are paid to make those decisions and trust they can make the right one. This person doesn't have to be a world beater, just... something... different.
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All-In [44121]
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I didn't take a stance in my post above.
Feb 11, 2020, 2:47 PM
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I simply asked the OP to answer some questions.
The questions I asked are very important ones. Who we would want to go after, how much we pay a coach, and how we plan on retaining him if he's successful are crucial questions to answer.
While I respect your desire to trust our athletic director and president when it comes to hiring a new coach, I am curious to know why you don't trust them to decide when it's time to fire a coach. In one breath you said you trust them on who to hire and how much to pay them, but in the next you're saying that it's time for a new coach. If they have "capable hands," then perhaps you should trust them in deciding on Brad's future too.
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Orange Blooded [2341]
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Re: Okay, let's assume that Brad was fired today.
Feb 11, 2020, 11:57 AM
[ in reply to Okay, let's assume that Brad was fired today. ] |
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Earl Grant - College of Charleston Eric Musselman- Nevada. John Becker - Vermont. Ryan Odom- UMBC. Steve Forbe- East Tennessee State. How’s that?
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All-In [44121]
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Re: Okay, let's assume that Brad was fired today.
Feb 11, 2020, 3:55 PM
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Earl Grant has done a nice job at C of C. Would our fans have a problem with us staying in the Brownell coaching tree? I suspect some would.
Eric Musselman is an excellent coach. However, he is no longer at Nevada. He took the Arkansas job last year and is in his first year there. I'm not sure he would be ready to jump ship yet.
I'd be willing to consider John Becker. His ties to the DC area could be nice for recruiting purposes.
Ryan Odom seems to be a risk. He's had a few nice 20-win seasons, but UMBC is currently 11-14 this year.
Steve Forbes also seems like a risk.
Is there a reason you did not list any coaches with major college basketball success? Is it because you prefer going to mid-major route to save money for other purposes (e.g., football), or because you assume Clemson wouldn't consider someone like that?
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CU Guru [1241]
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Re: Okay, let's assume that Brad was fired today.
Feb 11, 2020, 4:10 PM
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forbes got a year's "show cause" when he was an asst at UT under bruce pearl and they had ncaa problems. may have been nothing but it is a bit of a red flag.
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CU Medallion [66101]
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Ok, I'll partially play that game.
Feb 11, 2020, 12:17 PM
[ in reply to Okay, let's assume that Brad was fired today. ] |
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1) Not going to pick names, because the right answers to the rest of your questions will make the names put themselves into the hat.
2) Offer the average salary of the upper 1/4 of the ACC, with performance based incentives built in. Pay a salary that projects what you want your school to consistently be. Finishing in the upper quarter of the ACC year in and year out will pretty much guarantee an NCAA tournament bid.
3) Clemson plays in the best basketball conference in the country. Period. That will be attraction enough if the powers that be truly indicate a commitment to excellence by offering an elite salary to an elite coach, and committing to any facility related upgrades as needed to remain competitive. We have always been behind the curve on this in basketball.
4) Continue to pay him a competitive salary. As I said previously, Clemson is already in the "destination" conference in college basketball. If we stop thinking of ourselves as a "stepping-stone" type job, compensate our coach(es) accordingly, and continue to be competitive with facilities upgrades as needed, then coaches will want to come here, rather than the other way around. And, lets face it, if Brownell was anywhere near as good a coach as you make him out to be, someone else would have already "lured" him away by now.
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All-In [44121]
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Re: Ok, I'll partially play that game.
Feb 11, 2020, 4:04 PM
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The four highest paid coaches in the ACC (based on the 2019 data I found) are:
Mike Krzyzewski, Duke, $7.05 million Tony Bennett, Virginia, $4.15 million Chris Mack, Louisville, $4 million Roy Williams, North Carolina, $3.93 million
This averages out to roughly $4.75 million, which is a lot more than the roughly $2.5 million Brad Brownell currently makes. I'd love for Clemson to show that level of commitment to basketball, but I will believe it when I see it.
I love your assertive approach! If we want to be in the upper echelon of ACC basketball, then we can't expect to get there while taking our usual bargain-seeking approach to hiring a coach.
I disagree that if Brownell were a good coach he would've gone somewhere else by now. He really likes it at Clemson, and that love for Clemson is something we better do our best to ascertain whenever we hire our next coach.
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Orange Blooded [3681]
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Let them with a NC in basketball
Feb 13, 2020, 1:32 PM
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Let them win a National Championship in basketball and they will get paid the same as Dabo and his assistants did
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All-In [44121]
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: I am still waiting on your response, Touch_The_Rock79.***
Feb 11, 2020, 8:14 PM
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So you are saying that there is no coach in America that has done more with less talent and resources? Can you think of no one? Really?
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All-In [44121]
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I’d like to see how you answer the questions I posted above.***
Feb 11, 2020, 8:32 PM
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: I’d like to see how you answer the questions I posted above.***
Feb 11, 2020, 9:05 PM
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Hey, I’d entertain the thought of Mike Young. Has been at Wofford about 17 years, but the last 9 he has made 4 NCAA appearances. (More than Brownell in his tenure), with less resources. Do I really need to continue or do you just want me to keep spouting out names that would be just as productive as Brownell except for less money? I have a feeling that would be about 25% of collegiate coaches, 15% Rec league coaches and 4% YMCA coaches.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: I’d like to see how you answer the questions I posted above.***
Feb 11, 2020, 9:24 PM
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Actually should have canned Brownell and got You g before V. Tech got a hold of him.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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To be fair he was here criticizing the loss
Feb 10, 2020, 11:29 PM
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to Wake. Just because you didn’t see it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
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All-Conference [404]
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Re: Mrs Brownell Keller,
Feb 11, 2020, 10:01 AM
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Oh look touchthecock69 with another unfounded personal attack based on his own stupidity.
Change the record.
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Oculus Spirit [77466]
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Re: Mrs Brownell Keller,
Feb 11, 2020, 8:04 PM
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Dang, that was funny, ??
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Mrs Brownell Keller,
Feb 11, 2020, 8:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: Mrs Brownell Keller, ] |
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Oh look touchthecock69 with another unfounded personal attack based on his own stupidity.
Change the record.
Oh hey TinCock 14! ( Jcock83) I knew it was you!
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Replies: 45
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