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Army recruiting is a total disaster right now so what did the Army just do?
General Boards - Politics
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Replies: 39
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Army recruiting is a total disaster right now so what did the Army just do?

10

Nov 2, 2023, 9:00 AM
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Sent a no warning email (no personal phone call from DA) to about 800 NCOs ordering them to report next week to Army Recruiting school at Fort Knox. Once these guys finish the 7 week Army Recruiter course they will have to uproot their families and scatter to destinations throughout the USA.

These NCOs will have to pull their kids out of school mid-year, tell spouses to quit their jobs and for some - put their houses on the market immediately. Seeing how haphazardly this is happening, I bet the Army hasn't told most (if not all) of these NCOs where they are going to be stationed 8 weeks from now and probably won't sort that out until the NCOs are mid-way through the recruiting course. So I'm betting most of these NCOs have no clue where they will end up 8 weeks from now and cannot even have their spouses get a jump on house hunting, future child care, and contacting schools about mid-year enrollment at their new duty stations.

Gee.. ain't it a great idea to c.r.a.p. all over the very people and their families you are counting on to sell civilians on the benefits and advantages of joining the Army??... What utter stupidity and incompetence by our Army GO's...

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/11/01/army-suddenly-and-chaotically-told-hundreds-of-soldiers-they-have-be-recruiters-immediately.html

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Re: Army recruiting is a total disaster right now so what did the Army just do?

1

Nov 2, 2023, 9:02 AM
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I saw the Air Force just raised tge max age to 41 too. We must be worried.

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Hamas is recruiting well on college campuses.***

6

Nov 2, 2023, 9:08 AM
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Re: Hamas is recruiting well on college campuses.***

3

Nov 2, 2023, 9:11 AM
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Sadly. They don't even have to recruits. The professors and students do it for them. My theory is this. The profs and the students minds have become so warped that they see brown people as always the oppressed and white people the oppressors or always in the wrong. Israel must be the worst of the two. No way it is Hamas. No way it could ever be radical religion. It had to be the white man again. Just my speculation.

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Re: Hamas is recruiting well on college campuses.***

5

Nov 2, 2023, 9:32 AM
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College can be a very dangerous place for a young impressionable mind. I think we are seeing that played out right in front of us. It’s disgusting and troubling for our future.

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Re: Hamas is recruiting well on college campuses.***

1

Nov 2, 2023, 9:33 AM
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Spoken like someone who's never gone to college...

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Re: Hamas is recruiting well on college campuses.***

1

Nov 2, 2023, 9:36 AM
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I have been to a couple and I am liberal, but I have seen muvh of what worries him. I didn't see it so much at Clemson, but I did see it in San Francisco while take summer classes once. It happens though in college campuses. I don't agree with Tardawg much, but there is some truth to what he writes.

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Re: Hamas is recruiting well on college campuses.***

4

Nov 2, 2023, 9:48 AM
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Thanks for back up. Lol. Yes, it can be pretty bad. Sadly it’s infecting even southern universities. I have 2 granddaughters currently at Clemson and they e shown me some of what they are exposed to in terms of socialist ideology. Of course I’m sure it’s nothing like many other schools.
As for the comment by CIA, no, it’s spoken like someone who has 3 college degrees from 3 different schools.

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Re: Hamas is recruiting well on college campuses.***


Nov 2, 2023, 10:19 PM
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Do not confuse CIA with facts

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Re: Hamas is recruiting well on college campuses.***


Nov 3, 2023, 5:55 AM
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It’s not hard to confuse him.

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Re: Hamas is recruiting well on college campuses.***


Nov 2, 2023, 11:43 AM [ in reply to Re: Hamas is recruiting well on college campuses.*** ]
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I don't recall a professor ever bringing up politics during my tenure at Clemson. Is this mainly for political science students?

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Re: Hamas is recruiting well on college campuses.***


Nov 2, 2023, 3:59 PM
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Its not really a southern thing.

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But they'll break the law and pay for your abortion!!***

1

Nov 2, 2023, 9:28 AM
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If she's a hollerer, she'll be a screamer.
If she's a screamer, she'll get you arrested.


Re: Army recruiting is a total disaster right now so what did the Army just do?

3

Nov 2, 2023, 9:34 AM
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It does seem...uhm, not good.

How is it that the Marines are beating their recruiting quotas while everyone else is tanking? What are they doing differently?

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For starters - the Marines have a much lower recruiting requirement than all the

6

Nov 2, 2023, 10:44 AM
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other services. The Army generally has to recruit 3 times the number of people as the Marines.

The Marines are also a "niche" group that attracts a certain kind of recruit. The Marines don't sell themselves as a stepping stone to life after the Marines (i.e. a means to get money for college, get a skill in the Marines to use in a civilian job later etc...) like the other services tend to do.

The Marines sell the "elite" warrior bit (physically fit, tough fighters etc..) and that only the "few" can be among them. That appeals to a certain crowd of young people who are already predisposed to join the military. The Marines can usually find enough of these young people in the general population to meet their needs which is considerably less than the Army's recruiting needs.

For those interested I might make a thread on the overall military recruiting disaster that has been going on for the last two years. There's a lot more to the bad recruiting numbers than the publicly blamed "the civilian job market is good" and "young people are too fat". There's a lot of things not being discussed and or course corrected that are affecting the military's ability to get recruits and if this trend continues our national defense is going to be in serious trouble.

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Re: For starters - the Marines have a much lower recruiting requirement than all the

1

Nov 2, 2023, 10:49 AM
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Start that thread. I am interested.

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Re: For starters - the Marines have a much lower recruiting requirement than all the

2

Nov 2, 2023, 12:31 PM [ in reply to For starters - the Marines have a much lower recruiting requirement than all the ]
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I would definitely be interested. You always write great stuff and it's obvious you're as knowledgeable as it gets in your field.

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Undoubtedly poor leadership & management. Wonder if Senator Tubervilles .


Nov 2, 2023, 9:40 AM
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…. grandstanding has disrupted the chain of command or perhaps contributed to the mismanagement? Regardless of reasons, it appears to be a questionable move that may not improve recruiting and retention rates.

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Don't buy into the politics of the Tuberville thing...

4

Nov 2, 2023, 10:16 AM
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The Army already has more than enough GOs to fill the right positions to keep the Army staffed and moving forward with the important stuff on their plates. Are some GOs doing a job above or below their paygrades?? I imagine so but that is no different than what every Officer and NCO has encountered multiple times throughout their careers. Nothing about serving in positions above one's paygrade is that unusual or crippling to the US Army. In fact - it is so common that it is almost normal.

IMO this recruiting thing, plain and simple, is a failure of senior leadership. Coming up 800 recruiters short doesn't happen over night. One of two things happened: either Senior leadership (COL through GO level) in Army Recruiting Command lost track of their own personnel needs and failed to report it along the way to the Army... OR... DA ignored their requests for personnel along the way and didn't act on it until it is now a d.amned emergency.

Either way, senior leaders failed in their most basic duty - resourcing - and now 800 NCOs are being forced to immediately upend their lives to pay the price for these leaders' "lack of attention" to the details. I call it incompetence but that's just me....

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Too busy hobnobbing with 'K Street' about their future position on some

2

Nov 2, 2023, 10:47 AM
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DC/NOVA think tank and what kind of influence they can pull ala the Pentagon...and of course, what they're gonna get for it.

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Don't get me started on the Flag Officer "life after the military" jobs programs

4

Nov 2, 2023, 10:59 AM
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The amount of cashing in that some (well... most) retired Flag Officer's do through the Military Industrial Complex and lobbying firms is sickening. I call it "the club" and boy does it pay well to be in "the club" who already make more than enough to live very comfortably from their military pensions.

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I can buy that. However, just on principle.


Nov 2, 2023, 10:55 AM [ in reply to Don't buy into the politics of the Tuberville thing... ]
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Disconnected political issues and agendas should not impact promotions or other functional activities of the Armed Forces. Bad precedent IMO. Others can play the same card in the future.

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Isn't that what they signed up for?***


Nov 2, 2023, 11:43 AM
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"something in these hills..." -joe sherman


The short answer is an emphatic "no"....

3

Nov 2, 2023, 12:00 PM
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My understanding is that every one of these 800 NCOs are being pulled from their MOS (military occupational specialty) jobs (what they signed up for) to be made into an involuntary recruiters. Apparently not enough guys volunteered for recruiting duty and now the Army is "drafting" NCOs involuntarily. I'm not going to pretend this hasn't happened before but I don't know that it has happened on this scale with only six days notice.

Everyone joins the military knowing that they can be deployed at any time - that goes with the territory. But when a Soldier gets deployed - it doesn't usually require uprooting the family and moving them to a new location. Most, if not all of the time, the family stays at the current duty station while and until the deployed Soldier returns.

This ain't what's happening. These NCOs are essentially being told they gotta move lock, stock and barrel with minimal notice in the middle of the Holiday season and school year. If the NCOs had known this was coming 2 or 3 months ago - they could have done some level of planning for it. As it is this is gonna be a jug screw on these NCOs because most recruiting stations are far away from military bases and lack the support structure of a military community to assist with a move.

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In the military it's call voluntold***

1

Nov 2, 2023, 12:28 PM
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"something in these hills..." -joe sherman


I think the short notice is the bigger deal.


Nov 2, 2023, 12:46 PM [ in reply to The short answer is an emphatic "no".... ]
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What were the carrer jammers thinking. I don't know how it works for y'all, but for our career enlisted, they all have to do a recruiting, DI, or MSG assignment. It seems like at a minimum, these have to be Joes who have reenlisted cause they need enough time left to do the school plus whatever a recruiting tour is (guessing 2 or 3 years). It even says that a big chunk of those affected are being diverted from drill school. As you say, it's a senior leadership problem since they know well in advance who they're losing.

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The less than a week immediacy is pretty much the whole issue

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Nov 2, 2023, 5:12 PM
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I'm willing to bet the lower levels of Recruiting Command have been sounding off for more than six months with: "hey boss - we are losing recruiters left and right at our station with no replacements programmed to come in - we need some help down here".

To get to a situation where 800 NCOs are told to report to school within 6 days speaks to senior leaders not acting on the voices bubbling up from below AND not paying attention to their own personnel stats. Whether that was happening inside Army Recruiting Command or at DA itself (or possibly both) I don't know...

It should never have gotten to this point of an "oh shiit - we gotta get 800 recruiters in the pipeline as of yesterday". There should have been a ramping glide path in assignments for the past 5 months giving these NCOs ample notice that their time in recruiting purgatory is coming.

True to their calling, I imagine these 800 NCOs are going to salute the flag and do their damndest to get through recruiting school, move their families and hit the recruiting trail running. It just irritates me to no end that no one in leadership will be held accountable for jerking these NCOs and their families around like this.

The lack of accountability at the senior ranks is one of the biggest problems we have in the military and has been for some time now. It has gotten progressively worse since Rumsfeld took it upon himself to rid the services of any Flag Officer who dared espouse a professional opinion contrary to his own. From there Rummy made sure the Flag Officer success path was one of "Corporate/DC yes men Flag Officers" which is what we largely have today.

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Re: The less than a week immediacy is pretty much the whole issue

1

Nov 2, 2023, 6:21 PM
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It's only gonna get worse now that they promote based primarily on DEI initiatives. You think anybody who has enough boxes checked will be held accountable for anything like what you're discussing? Of course not and none of the folks having their lives destroyed will be valued in any way more than a DEI candidate who wouldn't cross the road to do their job any better. And THATS why they suddenly can't find recruits. Who wants to go to war being led by a guy in a dress who is only in his position because of that dress he's wearing. Nobody. That's who.

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Is declining interest in the Academies a reflection of Leadership?

1

Nov 2, 2023, 8:54 PM [ in reply to The less than a week immediacy is pretty much the whole issue ]
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This is only anecdote, but here goes.

My second cousin is a super student, is a good athlete, is very popular, has a fascination with military history, and is in JROTC. He is also a nature and wildlife aficionado. He is unusually mature for his age and is OK with not getting a smart phone until college.

His family is very comfortable financially; he doesn’t need the military as a platform through which to finance his education.

My first cousin (the boy’s dad) had thought the boy was of a caliber to maybe get accepted into West Point or Annapolis. We’ll never know. Despite having an affection for environmental matters, he has lost interest in being in the military. His dad, who is also ‘environmentally conscious,’ says that the boy doesn’t understand why our top military leaders cite climate change as America’s most critical national security issue. Like most kids these days, he is aware of homosexuals in society and is not concerned about them. Transexuals, though, do not seem normal to him. He doesn’t understand why the military places so much public emphasis on transsexuality and not as much emphasis on soldierly bearing. The boy also perceives that those in the military are not respected by most in the general public, although he recognizes that many Americans are still respectful of their military men.

Putting it all together, the boy has decided that a career in the military is not what he wants.

(?). Do you perceive any negative trends of talented youngsters eschewing a career as an officer in the military? Is so, then what factor(s) might be prominent in discouraging young people from pursuing a career in the military?

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No Christian should sign up to be a stormtrooper for the


Nov 2, 2023, 2:39 PM
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evil empire that is the former USA.

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Which religions should sign up?***

2

Nov 2, 2023, 3:21 PM
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Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it, so that when men come to be undeceived, it is too late; the jest is over, and the tale hath had its effect: like a man, who hath thought of a good repartee when the discourse is changed, or the company parted; or like a physician, who hath found out an infallible medicine, after the patient is dead.
- Jonathan Swift


Re: No Christian should sign up to be a stormtrooper for the

4

Nov 2, 2023, 3:29 PM [ in reply to No Christian should sign up to be a stormtrooper for the ]
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If you truly feel like what you often post about the US, why not move to a different country that is more to your liking?

Life is short and you're not going to fundamentally change anything, certainly not by espousing your views on Tigernet.

If we're the evil empire what countries do you admire?

Russia it would appear is pulling at your heartstrings.

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I've asked this many times. Never get an answer.

1

Nov 2, 2023, 4:33 PM
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I've suggested a paradise that doesn't have a functioning government; somewhere like countries in Africa that are run by drug cartels and/or warlords.

Perhaps that is more his style.

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You are lying. I've answered many many times, and you repeat


Nov 2, 2023, 9:41 PM
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the same moronic question as if I haven't.

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OK, then it should be easy to answer again.


Nov 3, 2023, 12:13 PM
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Why would you stay somewhere you hate?

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You are the one who sucks, you leave.***


Nov 4, 2023, 8:33 AM
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"here" is not the same thing as the government.


Nov 2, 2023, 9:40 PM [ in reply to Re: No Christian should sign up to be a stormtrooper for the ]
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I'd expect someone with an IQ over room temperature to understand that. The government is evil, but there's still a lot of good people here, especially in the South.

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Re: "here" is not the same thing as the government.


Nov 3, 2023, 8:02 AM
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LOL.Sorry I can't match up to your blinding brilliance 'cause you're sure not baffling anyone with your BS.

Please give me some non evil members of the government.

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Re: Army recruiting is a total disaster right now so what did the Army just do?

1

Nov 2, 2023, 3:41 PM
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*Joe should resign just on the basis of national security

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Re: Army recruiting is a total disaster right now so what did the Army just do?


Nov 6, 2023, 10:41 AM
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If you're retired Army why is this a shock to you? Recruiting has always been and will always be a hard to fill billet. It's not unusual to have non volunteers in that role. Maybe the number shocked you?

Edit - I replied to your initial post and didn't see your other two statements.


Message was edited by: ecsguru®


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Replies: 39
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