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Re: And another story of an illegal killing an American
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Mar 11, 2024, 9:33 PM
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You prefer "Status quo" over the Senate Border Bill, correct?
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CU Guru [1419]
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Re: And another story of an illegal killing an American
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Mar 11, 2024, 9:53 PM
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Just stop
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Orange Blooded [4024]
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Re: And another story of an illegal killing an American
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Mar 11, 2024, 9:58 PM
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You can't answer the question.
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Orange Blooded [2032]
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110%er [5712]
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Orange Blooded [4978]
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All-In [42385]
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I'd get how someone would think that if they can't read.***
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Mar 13, 2024, 7:28 AM
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Hall of Famer [24922]
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Orange Blooded [4024]
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Re: No. I prefer HR2 over the Senate BS.***
Mar 11, 2024, 9:59 PM
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"Status quo" vs Bipartisan Senate Border Bill. Whatcha got?
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Hall of Famer [24922]
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HR2... Now, F off.***
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Mar 11, 2024, 10:02 PM
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Orange Blooded [4024]
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Re: HR2... Now, F off.***
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Mar 11, 2024, 10:07 PM
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Hr2 not an option. Is "status quo" better than the BIPARTISAN Border bill?
#checkmate
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CU Guru [1419]
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Re: HR2... Now, F off.***
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Mar 11, 2024, 10:30 PM
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Man I’ve explained to you so many times why that bill was bs. If that’s the best shot in your chamber you’re toast. Your border bill comments just make me shake my head and smile. 1.8 million a year
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Orange Blooded [4024]
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Re: HR2... Now, F off.***
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Mar 12, 2024, 12:16 AM
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You have not explained how "status quo" is better than the BIPARTISAN Border Bill. You have no rational answer for this. You're toast. You don't give 2 chits about the border. It's strictly a political talking point for you and that is all. Your feigned outrage is laughable.
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CU Guru [1419]
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Re: HR2... Now, F off.***
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Mar 12, 2024, 7:20 AM
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Actually I’ve explained it to you multiple times. When I have explained it you never respond. I guess I’ll do it again. There should’ve never been a need for a bill. The day Biden got in office he ended the remain in Mexico policy and during the campaign trail he invited immigrants to come through the border. Illegals have been released into the U.S. to await asylum trials that they will most likely fail to appear. If he just reinstated the remain in Mexico policy and continued border wall constructed. It would cut encounters in half. He refuses to do that because Trump was the one who started it.
This “bill” still allows for 5,000 illegals to come through a day. 1.8 million a year. Which is already happening. That’s why the bill is not getting passed. It makes no sense.
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Orange Blooded [4024]
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Re: HR2... Now, F off.***
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Mar 12, 2024, 8:56 AM
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That entire wall of text does not say how "status quo" is BETTER than the BIPARTISAN Border bill. It's a pathetic and laughable tap dance to justify you making political hay rather than actually caring about fixing the border.
Facts about "Remain in Mexico".
1. It doesn't apply to Mexicans (WHOOOOPS)
2. It remained in effect till May 2023. Uh oh.
3. It requires the cooperation of Mexico, who only agreed for it to be temporary, not permanent. So this doesn't work when Mexico refuses to cooperate. Ooooops
4. It encourages illegal Border crossings rather than "legal entry".
Do you believe we should rule by law? You're simultaneously saying that we "don't need to change the law", but the "law sucks and we need to go around it with measures that don't work".
Keep dancing
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CU Guru [1419]
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Re: HR2... Now, F off.***
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Mar 12, 2024, 10:56 AM
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1.Mexicans are the least of the worries at the border
2.Citing widespread reports of severe human rights violations and seriously logistical problems caused by the program, the Biden administration suspended, and then terminated, the program after President Biden took office. A “reinstated” Remain in Mexico program returned 7,505 people to Mexico from December 2021 to August 2022 as the result of federal court order which was eventually overturned by the Supreme Court. On January 20, 2021, the same day that President Biden took office, DHS suspended all new enrollments in MPP, preventing any new people from being sent back to Mexico.
Beginning in February 2021, the Biden administration began formally winding down MPP. The first phase of this “wind down” involved processing into the United States those waiting in Mexico who had pending MPP cases.
3. Cool story. We can still just turn them around. What is Mexico gonna do?
4. Apparently not. The number of illegal crossings has increased dramatically since it has been rescinded.
I’d rather we rule by law. That border bill is no better than what’s going on now. The same numbers will be let through. You realize before Biden, 1.8 million in a year was a record? Now they are wanting to make that the norm? Weird. It wasn’t just the remain in Mexico policy. Trump had a zero tolerance policy.
This is an excerpt from the heavy left leaning Washington Post:
Last month 249,785 illegal crossings were recorded along the U.S.-Mexico border, the highest monthly total ever, and Biden officials acknowledge the majority of the migrants were released into the United States with pending claims for protection. The latest influx has worsened strains on New York, Chicago, Denver and other cities whose Democratic mayors are pleading for more federal aid to shelter and assist the newcomers, including the thousands of migrants sent by Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R).
#### like this wasn’t happening under Trump or Obama. This is a Biden problem.
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Orange Blooded [4024]
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Re: HR2... Now, F off.***
Mar 12, 2024, 11:20 AM
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1. Why are Mexican the "least of our worries?" What makes them less of a concern than let's say Venezuelan's?
2. Remain in Nexico did not end until May, 2023. There isn't any evidence that it worked as those sent back just kept crossing without penalty.
3. LoL. You have no clue and you're making stuff up. Take the "L".
4. Crossings increased dramatically way before RIM ended. The surge started around the time of Covid ending along with post Covid civil unrest in many Central/South American countries. Nice try Baw, but fail.
You STILL can't explain how "status quo" is better than the BIPARTISAN Border Bill. It's all political to you just like we've always known. Maybe you can help Murph out with the "codify" explanation. Too funny. 😁 😆
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110%er [5712]
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Stop trying
Mar 12, 2024, 2:42 PM
[ in reply to Re: HR2... Now, F off.*** ] |
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it's clear his IQ is less than his height (in inches).
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Orange Blooded [4024]
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Re: Stop trying
Mar 13, 2024, 7:06 AM
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Maybe you can help him out. How is "Status quo" better than the BIPARTISAN Border Bill? 😆
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Orange Blooded [2032]
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CU Medallion [58598]
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Now you have to apologize for saying "illegal", even if it's true and
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Mar 11, 2024, 10:57 PM
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relevant. There's no room for truth and relevance when idiots are controlling the message.
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All-In [42385]
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These are cheap attempts at pathos
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Mar 12, 2024, 7:40 AM
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And pathos is always the cheapest route when discussing important national issues. Y'all don't actually care this much about the Laken Riley or this boy. If you did, y'all would have (and I know you're not one of the traditional folks I'm talking about here so it's just the collective y'all) exhibited the same outrage when an unarmed man is killed by police. Or when a child is killed in some American military endeavor. Or when a woman is murdered by her husband in a state like SC that historically sits on its thumbs and pretends it doesn't have a major domestic violence problem.
It's selective fake outrage over a specific issue to drum up some cheap amount of pathos and guilt people who you falsely think support lax borders. Which they don't and you know they don't.
If you opposed the border bill, you share a piece of this responsibility, because the only reason it was opposed is because Trump opposed it. Yes, it was. Yes. It was.
But what, we care about car accidents now? Right.
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Lot o points [156198]
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Cmon, this is politics in general.
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Mar 12, 2024, 7:45 AM
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One almost always cares more about what an incident represents than an incident itself.
Do people ever care more about someone killed than about the probability it could have been someone they know or the direct relatability of the incident?
Every side in the history of politics does this, so it’s not suddenly some sort of point nullifying gotcha.
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All-In [42385]
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Is it a new tactic? Hardly
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Mar 12, 2024, 8:01 AM
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But still worth calling out. These people here don't really care about Laken Riley or this boy.
Especially bengaline
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Orange Blooded [4829]
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Re: These are cheap attempts at pathos
Mar 12, 2024, 8:23 AM
[ in reply to These are cheap attempts at pathos ] |
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Oh please. Leftist kooks would eagerly lump in 75 million Americans with anyone who murdered someone while wearing a MAGA hat. Wanna see fake outrage? Go look in the mirror.
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All-In [42385]
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Interesting analogy
Mar 12, 2024, 8:42 AM
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So, are you saying that when a MAGA mouth breather commits a violent crime or marches down the street in a white nationalist parade, he isn't representative of the entire group of Trump supporters?
Interesting logic. Maybe try applying that to other groups of people.
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CU Guru [1419]
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Re: Interesting analogy
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Mar 12, 2024, 8:50 AM
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I can only speak for myself but I’m not judging all illegal immigrants based on the actions of one. That’s not my problem. My problem is that illegals should never be here in the first place. I wouldn’t call it outrage, just makes me sad. I can only imagine what the families are going through. And yes I feel sad when anyone who didn’t deserve it is killed. Unarmed citizens by the hands of law enforcement or a woman by the hands of an abusive husband. Unarmed citizens being killed by cops is extremely rare though, especially when you look at total police/citizen encounters.
I’m not sure what to do about abusive husbands but I do know that the border was not this bad until Biden got in office. Almost 2 million a year and that’s just the ones that border patrol has encountered. This administration is letting illegals in the country to await asylum hearings and paying for their housing. So this is different than unarmed citizens being shot by cops and women being beat by husbands. This has a clear solution. Biden needs to reinstate Trumps border policies and quit being a baby.
The border bill is a joke that still allows 5,000 illegals through a day. 1.8 million a year. That’s a no fn go.
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All-In [42385]
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Re: Interesting analogy
Mar 12, 2024, 9:09 AM
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I lost someone I cared about to a LEGAL immigrant because of his idiocy behind the wheel. What good would it be for me to harp on that detail about him? The person I cared about could have just as easily died at the hands of an American, and griping about how this Brit shouldn't have been here cheapens the argument--and that person's life.
I 100 percent agree with you on the border problem, but cherrypicking cases like this doesn't help the discussion.
Let's focus on the big picture and the numbers--which you're spot-on to have an issue with--and stay away from these attempts to drum up pseudo-sympathy (and then levy an attack against others) over these specific incidents that, let's be honest, no one is really THAT upset about.
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Orange Blooded [4024]
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Re: Interesting analogy
Mar 12, 2024, 2:52 PM
[ in reply to Re: Interesting analogy ] |
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If illegal immigrants make you 😔, then you would support the BIPARTISAN Border Bill. Sorry Baw, the gig is up and you outed yourself. 😆
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CU Medallion [58598]
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All-TigerNet [12299]
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Re: These are cheap attempts at pathos
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Mar 13, 2024, 7:42 AM
[ in reply to These are cheap attempts at pathos ] |
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If you opposed the border bill, you share a piece of this responsibility, because the only reason it was opposed is because Trump opposed it. Yes, it was. Yes. It was.
Ummm.... point of order.... Unlike a lot of people, I actually took time to read the Senate "border" bill. Actually it wasn't really a border bill but a Ukraine/Israel funding bill that jammed this "bi-partisan" Senate groups backdoor dealing border stuff in it. By the way - aren't all funding bills supposed to be initiated in the House?? but I digress...
I opposed that bill because it essentially codified a level of illegal immigration as "acceptable" through its ridiculous number games and manipulated counting methods of illegals. Children, for instance would not count towards those daily illegal "contacts" etc...etc... Furthermore it did nothing to really address securing the border. It also restricted all challenges to these loop-holed border rules to the DC Circuit courts... I can't imagine why....
So no - this border bill was bad from soup to nuts and deserved the derision it received from those of us looking for real border security. Trump had nothing to do with my opposition to it.... No he didn't, no he didn't....
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110%er [9083]
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Re: These are cheap attempts at pathos
Mar 13, 2024, 7:49 AM
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democrats dont negotiate in good faith, they just lie, cheat and steal to weaken america
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All-TigerNet [12299]
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The truth is that we have gotten to such a place of wide ranging Executive
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Mar 13, 2024, 8:08 AM
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Branch "discretion" (actually more like "dysfunction") that the Executive Branch of Government simply selectively enforces the laws/regulations of which they approve. The laws the Executive branch doesn't like - they simply ignore but get away with it as Executive "discretion". Either way - it has the same result of not enforcing laws already passed by our elected officials.
Both Republican and Democratic administrations are guilty of this and it has gotten worse over the years. It potentially defangs any law our elected Representatives pass because the law can be rendered "unenforceable" by Executive Branch discretion and the Federal courts just seem to shrug when the Executive Branch refuses to do their Constitutional duty.
Quite frankly, I believe this overuse of discretionary enforcement is contributing to the decline of our Government institutions. It is turning them into political bodies who ignore established law upon the alter of their political affiliations. It contributes to an ever growing feeling that our Government is becoming a lawless body unaccountable and unbound to anyone/anything other than their own political desires.
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Hall of Famer [24922]
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Executive power greatly accelerated due to vagaries of the Patriot Act and EOs.
Mar 13, 2024, 1:48 PM
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"Ongoing investigations" and "national security" are some of the most used of the examples of Executive branch obfuscation.
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All-In [42385]
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All-TigerNet [12299]
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A bad bill is a bad bill - I don't care who wrote it...
Mar 13, 2024, 1:25 PM
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Conservative, leftist - it's immaterial when the actual bill is hot garbage. Did you read the proposed legislation and actually know what you are defending?? If not then maybe I'm not the doofus...
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All-In [42385]
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Yep, I did. You know what else is bad?
Mar 14, 2024, 8:01 AM
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Continuing the status quo so people flood across the border while jack holes in Congress sit around and desperately wait for their little orange despot to return in January so they can pass his ineffective and stupid ideas.
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Hall of Famer [24922]
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Orange Blooded [2694]
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All-In [42385]
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The Ukraine stuff wasn't why it was opposed
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Mar 13, 2024, 9:23 AM
[ in reply to Re: These are cheap attempts at pathos ] |
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Trump opposed it because it wasn't HIS bill and he knew it would be possibly be effective to the benefit of Biden. Pubs who supported it immediately turned on it the moment Trump denounced it. And Trumpkins followed right behind.
I opposed that bill because it essentially codified a level of illegal immigration as "acceptable" through its ridiculous number games and manipulated counting methods of illegals.
Then you fell for Trump's lie. Under the current system, there is NO limit at all on contacts and NO required shut down action. This bill would have established that and created a legal method for completely locking down the border to everyone.
So, yes, you did. Yes. You did.
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Orange Blooded [4024]
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You got him
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Mar 13, 2024, 1:35 PM
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Hall of Famer [24922]
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All-TigerNet [12299]
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It sounds like you never actually read the bill yourself and are simply echoing
Mar 14, 2024, 7:37 AM
[ in reply to The Ukraine stuff wasn't why it was opposed ] |
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Democrat talking points because it affirms your deep seated opposition to Trump. Obviously - if Trump is against the bill then there is no way that anyone else who opposes this bill could have possibly come to their own conclusion that this bill is garbage. It seems your position is that anyone who opposes the bill has to be a stupid MAGA loyalist that can't form their own opinions. Not a very intellectual response and quite frankly unworthy of your normal depth of conversation.
FYI...Obed and I had actually started discussing some specific paragraphs of the bill in the following thread when I first started reading it. You were noticeably absent from this discussion...
https://www.tigernet.com/clemson-forum/message/if-you-want-to-read-the-senate-bill-you-can-get-it-here:-34391816#34391816
So once again... Trump had nothing to do with my opposition to this "border bill" because I can read and think for myself... No he didn't, No he didn't....
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All-In [42385]
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Re: It sounds like you never actually read the bill yourself and are simply echoing
Mar 14, 2024, 7:54 AM
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Democrat talking points because it affirms your deep seated opposition to Trump. Obviously - if Trump is against the bill then there is no way that anyone else who opposes this bill could have possibly come to their own conclusion that this bill is garbage. It seems your position is that anyone who opposes the bill has to be a stupid MAGA loyalist that can't form their own opinions. Not a very intellectual response and quite frankly unworthy of your normal depth of conversation.
This was a GOP conservative bill pushed by Republicans, and opposition to it didn't occur until AFTER Trump came out to oppose it. Nobody on this board opposed it until AFTER Trump opposed it. I've read the bill, and I've stated it's certainly not the perfect solution, but it's at least something during a time of crisis instead of nothing. Under the current system, there is no plan to shut down the border after a certain number of contacts. This bill would have created a plan to do so.
Trump flat out lied about how many people it would supposedly allow to cross, and you've repeated a variation of that lie. So while you may not be regurgitating Trump out of loyalty (even thought you've said you still support him), you're at least repeating his falsities.
And maybe it's not on-par with usual discussion, but man, you haven't exactly been swinging for the fences this week when it comes to making sweeping generalizations and faulty claims. I mean, the Haiti post was a big whiff.
FYI...Obed and I had actually started discussing some specific paragraphs of the bill in the following thread when I first started reading it. You were noticeably absent from this discussion...
I've discussed this topic ad nauseum on this board, including in other threads with Obed. Sorry I didn't get into the specific one you wanted me to. I dunno what else you want from me.
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All-TigerNet [12299]
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No... the Conservative bill is HR2...
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Mar 14, 2024, 9:11 AM
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https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2
Which was a DEDICATED border security/immigration bill (not something jammed into a Ukraine/Israel funding bill) sent to the Senate almost a year ago in MAY 2023 where the Democrats in control refused to even look at it. No negotiating with the House over it...nothing. The Democrats didn't even try. Yet, the media and anti-Trumper's act as if the Senate bill was the only thing being proposed about the border and summarily ignore what one whole legislative body already passed in HR2 that has been sitting in the Senate for almost a year.
PS... I've been in Williamsburg VA all week exploring the early settlements and Revolutionary battlefields and only catch up on T-net in the mornings and evenings. My Haiti take ain't based on thin air but time on the ground trying to help them. Most folks that I've talked to that have actually spent real time on the ground in the real Haiti (not Labadee) tend to have relatively the same opinion of the Haitian culture/society as I have expressed. Sorry it doesn't conform with the more sunny "Haiti's great - no problems with their society/culture let's hold hands and sing kumbya" take where we just continue giving them money and turn a blind eye.
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Orange Blooded [4024]
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All-In [34132]
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