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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Hunter Johnson vs Tua Tagovailoa
Jan 9, 2018, 6:28 PM
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People keep comparing TT to HJ, thinking if we simply inserted HJ in the bama game we would have won. Well HJs season was completely different than TTs season as far as playing time. HJ only threw 27 passes the whole season. He never played more than 2 consecutive series before being replaced. On the other hand, TT played entire half’s of football on a few separate occasions when bama was winning big. Saban knew what he had in TT a lot more than dabo knew what he has in HJ.
For example, TT played the whole second half of the vandy game, going 8 for 10 and 103 yards and 2 tds. Also ran for 22 yards.
He also played almost the whole second half of the tenn game. He was 9 for 12 with 134 and a td. He also played the whole second half of the Mercer game.
This is invaluable experience gained against conference opponents, not just cupcake group of five teams and fcs teams. He was adjusted to the speed of the game much better than HJ was. Those weren’t just garbage minutes for TT, they were pressure packed because that was how a they me to show what he could do. Those minutes were his super bowl (at least he thought).
In conference games, HJ only attempted 9 passes. NINE. That’s just not enough time on the field for dabo to make the move to him like saban did. Saban knew what he had, dabo didn’t.
TT ended up 49 for 77 with 636 yards and 11 passing tds.
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: Hunter Johnson vs Tua Tagovailoa
Jan 9, 2018, 6:32 PM
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*Those weren’t just garbage minutes for TT, they were pressure packed because that was his time to show what he could do. Those minutes were his super bowl (at least he thought).
I suck at not proof reading, sorry.
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All-TigerNet [10787]
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Re: Hunter Johnson vs Tua Tagovailoa
Jan 9, 2018, 10:22 PM
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HJ wouldn't have gotten anymore time to pass than KB did.
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CU Guru [1298]
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Re: Hunter Johnson vs Tua Tagovailoa
Jan 9, 2018, 10:32 PM
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But he would not have needed it either. HJ plus fast pace that he does well would have effected Bama just like it effected Ga
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All-TigerNet [10787]
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Re: Hunter Johnson vs Tua Tagovailoa
Jan 9, 2018, 10:37 PM
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still think the ol was our Achilles heel.
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Hall of Famer [23994]
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Re: Hunter Johnson vs Tua Tagovailoa
Jan 10, 2018, 8:57 AM
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If he gets the ball out quicker than KB then the OL doesn't matter as much
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Letterman [290]
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Re: Hunter Johnson vs Tua Tagovailoa
Jan 10, 2018, 5:38 PM
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Who was he going to get the ball out quicker to? No one was open and when they were they dropped passes or didn't fight for them.
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CU Guru [1898]
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110%er [6692]
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Orange Blooded [2182]
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110%er [5436]
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Re: Hunter Johnson vs Tua Tagovailoa
Jan 9, 2018, 6:40 PM
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Are you going to eat that dead horse
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: Hunter Johnson vs Tua Tagovailoa
Jan 9, 2018, 6:45 PM
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Dabos fault for not getting him in there more and there were plenty of opportunities. KB had some pretty bad games throwing the ball.
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110%er [5436]
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Re: Hunter Johnson vs Tua Tagovailoa
Jan 9, 2018, 6:51 PM
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What games?
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CU Guru [1322]
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vs Alabama***
Jan 9, 2018, 8:19 PM
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110%er [5436]
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Re: vs Alabama***
Jan 9, 2018, 8:32 PM
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You said games
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110%er [5977]
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If BAMA was only down 10 to 6 at the half TT doesn’t start
Jan 9, 2018, 6:49 PM
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The 2nd half. KB2 wasn’t the reason we lost the game and this love affair with the backup QB is getting a little ridiculous.
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110%er [6508]
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Re: If BAMA was only down 10 to 6 at the half TT doesn’t start
Jan 9, 2018, 7:41 PM
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Nothing new. I remember some of our "fans" regularly booing Woody Dantzler. You are correct, it has gotten very, very, old.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Wow. Missed the booing but I guess Woody was SO
Jan 9, 2018, 9:47 PM
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exciting to watch that I was not observing the crowd.
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110%er [6281]
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: If BAMA was only down 10 to 6 at the half TT doesn’t start
Jan 10, 2018, 8:11 AM
[ in reply to If BAMA was only down 10 to 6 at the half TT doesn’t start ] |
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Is that what you got out of my op? A love affair with the back up qb? Because in no way was I claiming HJ should have played instead of KB and I’m really confused how you came to that conclusion. I was actually claiming the exact opposite.
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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Re: Hunter Johnson vs Tua Tagovailoa
Jan 9, 2018, 6:52 PM
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Maybe we should start steeping in throats like they do at Bama. There were plenty of games on the schedule Hunter should have gotten into. Saban basically said in plain language that Hurts didn't give them enough in the passing game and that's why he made the switch.
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Standout [305]
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Re: Hunter Johnson vs Tua Tagovailoa
Jan 9, 2018, 7:58 PM
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Dabo's fault for not playing HJ against Syracuse
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Rock Defender [59]
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Re: Hunter Johnson vs Tua Tagovailoa
Jan 11, 2018, 12:22 AM
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Would Dabo have pulled out KB for the Syracuse game and started Hunter? We all know the answer!!! Dabo is way too conservative to do that! Sure cant see him do what Saban did!
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CU Guru [1263]
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Re: Hunter Johnson vs Tua Tagovailoa
Jan 9, 2018, 8:53 PM
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I def see what your saying but just to be a counter to your argument and your right you can't compare the two but answer me this, how come Tua came in and got those good reps you are talking about, these halfs against decent competition, is it HJ fault that he didn't get those kinda reps when we were up big against teams, even the cupcakes don't you think we would have known a little more of what we had if the staff would have left HJ more than the 2 consecutive series like you said. Is that HJ fault that he didn't get a shot to come in and play clean up for a long enough period to tell what he was able to do? He had ample opportunity against Uscjr, Kent st, UL those were all games that HJ could have came in and played more than a series or two can't expect anyone to really get going if they get taken out every other drive and don't get to throw when they do come in. I'm not saying it would have made a difference in the sugar bowl but just wanted to play the opposite side of the coin. Just a thought
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: Hunter Johnson vs Tua Tagovailoa
Jan 10, 2018, 8:23 AM
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You’ve got to remember HJ wasn’t even the backup coming out of fall camp, he was third string. ZC was the backup, but it wasn’t like he was far and away better than HJ. Saban has his clear cut backup qb. Dabo needed to get both ZC and HJ reps, so I guess that’s why he rotated them. That helps because they both get to play, because it also takes reps away from the other. I would have liked to see one of the other have gotten a majority of the game reps, but that’s not dabos style. He likes to play everyone. It works out sometimes and it hurts us sometimes.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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We played a much tougher schedule than Bama...
Jan 10, 2018, 10:50 AM
[ in reply to Re: Hunter Johnson vs Tua Tagovailoa ] |
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And didn’t have as many blow out games as Bama did. HJ did get opportunities. He looked so so most of his appearances. Played really crisp against the Citadel, but was inaccurate when he got in against the gamecocks. Tua also plays behind a physical oline, where as we have a finesse oline which showed against Bama
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110%er [9661]
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So it seems we could be suffering from
Jan 9, 2018, 9:42 PM
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a crowded stable. maybe we have too many QB's for one to get the attention they need. I suspect that changes in the coming weeks. One or 2 will transfer because they can start anywhere else.
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Legend [16342]
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My first Tua sighting but he looked the part of a freak
Jan 9, 2018, 10:31 PM
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athlete last night. HJ has looked like he can dish it but I haven't seen that kind of command out of anyone but KB this season behind center.
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: My first Tua sighting but he looked the part of a freak
Jan 10, 2018, 8:24 AM
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I agree. TT looked much better than HJ ever looked when he got in games.
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All-In [44121]
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Then that begs the question: why didn’t Dabo play Hunter more?
Jan 9, 2018, 10:49 PM
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We had multiple games when we put the game away early. Did Dabo feel the Bryant needed more experience? Did he think Cooper deserved backup minutes more than Johnson? Did he not think Johnson was ready?
I just don’t undrstand the complacency shown by our coaches sometimes.
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All-In [48078]
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Maybe he was just using Bryant to bridge the gap until TL*****
Jan 10, 2018, 5:38 AM
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: Maybe he was just using Bryant to bridge the gap until TL*****
Jan 10, 2018, 8:51 AM
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I hope. We aren’t winning a natty with KB. The 2 best defenses we faced all year held us to 14 and 6 points. He threw 13 td passes in 14 games, in an offense that features the passing game. Go back to when chad Morris came and starting qbs had season td totals of 33, 36, 34, 23 (stoudt and Watson combined as starters), 35, and 41. KB has THIRTEEN (only 9 in 12 games against power 5 teams). That’s just not going to get it done.
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110%er [6692]
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Re: Maybe he was just using Bryant to bridge the gap until TL*****
Jan 10, 2018, 10:52 AM
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We did have 10 more rushing TD's than last year though, as they changed up the scheme slightly to run the ball more.
That being said you're spot on with the discrepancy in passing TDs, 28 fewer in one year is astounding.
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110%er [6075]
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Coaching staff made a huge mistake not playing him vs cuse
Jan 10, 2018, 8:28 AM
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Cost us the game and valuable experience for HJ
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110%er [6692]
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Re: Coaching staff made a huge mistake not playing him vs cuse
Jan 10, 2018, 10:48 AM
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And you know this cost us the game how?
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110%er [8093]
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you are wrong!
Jan 10, 2018, 8:30 AM
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Because everything I read on tigernet says Saban runs up the score and never puts in his backups. Cmon man!
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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A first time for everything lextiger551 makes a non trolling post...
Jan 10, 2018, 10:45 AM
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and one based on actual available information. Congrats lextiger551 on your continuing rehabilitation process, don’t fall off the wagon
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110%er [6692]
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Re: A first time for everything lextiger551 makes a non trolling post...
Jan 10, 2018, 10:49 AM
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He makes a "non-trolling" post but you're here to make sure one isn't missed, congrats!
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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I’m giving him credit for his post, learn how to read***
Jan 10, 2018, 10:54 AM
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110%er [6692]
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Re: I’m giving him credit for his post, learn how to read***
Jan 10, 2018, 11:08 AM
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I can read just fine, my statement still stands.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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It’s not standing I knocked it down***
Jan 10, 2018, 1:52 PM
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110%er [7719]
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Orange Blooded [2248]
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Maybe cupcake conference opponents
Jan 10, 2018, 10:45 AM
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"This is invaluable experience gained against conference opponents, not just cupcake group of five teams"? Do you realize that Tennessee and Vandy won 1 SEC game between them and they played each other?
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Varsity [243]
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Re: Hunter Johnson vs Tua Tagovailoa
Jan 10, 2018, 1:12 PM
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I disagree. I do not think very many at all think simply inserting HJ in the game against Bama would have won the game for us. It was way to late by then, as you accurately point out. I think that is the issue most are having. There is a reason that HJ was a 5* QB that was higher rated than both Tua and Fromm coming out of HS, it is because experts watched all three of them during their careers and at the many camps they went to and collectively ranked them that way. Those rankings aren’t perfect but there is no reason, at this point, to think they got it wrong either.
We pay our coaches millions of dollars to recognize talent, recruit that talent, and develop that talent and we have one of if not the best coaching staff’s in CFB. That said, if HJ wasn’t ready to play by the end of the year, it is completely on the coaches. If it is truly about Championships, the it is the coaches job to recognize what will give us the best opportunity to win them. That unfortunately is not KB and it was obvious to anyone watching that we were one dimensional. The whole offensive scheme was changed to a run first O to Taylor it to KB because the coaches knew he was a better runner than passer. I will ask just one question now, how many teams have consistently been able to run on Bama? No team has beat Bama without an elite passing QB and passing O. We have basically the same OL we had last year and even with DW making them play the pass, we still couldnt rush for 100 yards on them. What would make anyone think we would be able to run on them this year with the same OL? IMO our coaches should have known this.
Now I will be the first to admit that ZC probably looked better in practice than HJ early, he already had a year in the system to learn it. I will also state that there is no doubt in my mind that KB absolutely tore it up in practice. Why wouldn’t he, it was his third year in the system. He did an outstanding job until we met a team that we couldn’t out talent and run on. Yet, if you are being honest, you have to remember several things as well. This is also the same KB who couldn’t beat Schuessler out to claim the #2 spot behind Watson. You also have to remember the way they practice and prepare today is way different than it used to be. How many times do they actually go full speed in pads O vs D where you could actually judge the QBs ability to react under pressure and make the right reads? How many times is the D actually allowed to hit the QB? How much actual practice is anything like a real game to judge them? The answer is not very much. What was obvious was when they actually got into a game, ZC looked lost while HJ looked like a QB.
All that brings me to the question I have asked all year, If our coaches should have known that no team has run consistently on Bama and no team has beat them without having an elite passing QB why were we not concentrating getting HJ ready to take over for KB? He was the #2 ranked QB after all and if Bama can have Tua ready and thUGA can have their starting QB go out and have Fromm ready to step in, then surely our staff should have been able to recognize that HJ had the most potential and highest ceiling of all three of our QBs and gotten him ready.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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So Clemson allows you to attend practice***
Jan 10, 2018, 1:54 PM
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Rock Defender [59]
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Re: Hunter Johnson vs Tua Tagovailoa
Jan 11, 2018, 12:27 AM
[ in reply to Re: Hunter Johnson vs Tua Tagovailoa ] |
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It was 100% on the coaches to get Hunter mentally ready for Alabama and put him in there!!
No way KB could have run on Alabama and got us home
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Legend [17759]
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If you're saying Bama outprepared & outcoached Tigers
Jan 10, 2018, 10:16 PM
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in terms of preparing QB's and most freshman players, regrettable I would agree with you. Dabo is one he11uva coach and a recruiter, but Nick is still the GOAT. Lets hope Nick goes to the NY Giants. We wasted HJ's potential this year IMHO.
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