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Replies: 27
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110%er [9813]
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It's time we talk about this for real
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Jun 29, 2023, 10:24 AM
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I've seen a couple different posts now about the number 4 and that it should stay retired under Steve Fuller's name.
I also saw a take that no number should be retired and we shouldn't lose a recruit off a number (I kind of agree) but I like the system we have where incoming players have to have a conversation with the retired jersey wearer to be able to wear the number.
However, I think if we are retiring numbers, the number 4 should be re-retired for Deshaun.
Let's look at the numbers and yall tell me.
Steve Fuller:
Freshman- 22 of 46; 354 yds, 2 TD, 3 Int, 47 carries 148 yds
Sophomore- 58 of 116; 835 yds, 5 TD, 6 Int, 157 carries 503 yds 6 TD
Junior- 106 of 205; 1655 yds, 8 TD, 8 Int, 178 carries 437 yds 6 TD
Senior- 101 of 187; 1515 yds, 7 TD, 4 Int, 153 carries 649 yds 10 TD
Senior year was his best by far but let's look at Deshaun now.
Deshaun Watson:
Freshman- 93 of 137; 1466 yds, 14 TD, 2 Int, 63 carries 200 yds 5 TD
Sophomore- 333 of 491; 4109 yds, 35 TD, 13 Int, 207 carries 1105 yds 12 TD
Junior/Senior- 388 of 579; 4593 yds, 41 TD, 17 Int, 165 carries 629 yds 9 TD
Deshaun arguably had a much better 2nd year than the last one, but he also brought home the natty on the last one.
In Fuller's whole career at Clemson he scored 44 TD's for the tigers with no titles won. In Deshaun's second year alone he had 47 and barely lost to Bama in the title game.
It's pretty clear who wore the number better and who it should be retired under. But yall let me know what you think.
*Disclaimer* Steve Fuller was one of the best Tigers to come through Clemson and he deserves the ring of honor for sure this is not a derogatory post towards him in any way.
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110%er [8592]
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Re: It's time we talk about this for real
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Jun 29, 2023, 10:39 AM
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Sorry, if Steve Fuller, Jerry Butler and the guys from those teams in the 70's did not Clemson the map, who knows if the Championships of 81, 16 and 18 would have happened. Steve was very gracious to allow Deshaun to wear #4 but you do not unretire a number or take a monument off the stadium.
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110%er [9813]
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Re: It's time we talk about this for real
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Jun 29, 2023, 10:42 AM
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I definitely disagree with this take.
Yes those guys put Clemson on the map and Danny Ford's championship in 81 was a very significant moment for our program.
However, the Hatfield and Bowden years made us irrelevant again and if it weren't for Dabo being who he is and changing the culture of our program then we wouldn't have the 16, and 18 trophies.
What Deshaun did for our program was much more significant.
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110%er [6978]
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Don’t recall Fuller having off the field issues.***
Jun 29, 2023, 12:27 PM
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CU Medallion [57782]
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At Clemson?***
Jun 29, 2023, 2:33 PM
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All-In [29046]
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I'd argue
Jun 29, 2023, 1:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: It's time we talk about this for real ] |
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Hatfield/West were captains during the decline, and Bowden actually did a good job building us back up toward respectability.
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All-American [584]
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Orange Blooded [3414]
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Re: It's time we talk about this for real
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Jun 29, 2023, 10:40 AM
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I like the idea of honoring great past players but not retiring their numbers. Clemson could put the jersey in a prominent place with the name and number to honor the player. But with the talent that is coming through Clemson now, soon players will be limited to 3 digit numbers.
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Orange Blooded [2361]
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Re: It's time we talk about this for real
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Jun 29, 2023, 10:41 AM
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Apples and oranges
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All-TigerNet [10900]
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Re: It's time we talk about this for real
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Jun 29, 2023, 10:47 AM
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Keep number 4 retired for Steve Fuller, he earned it. You can't re-retire the number for someone who asked Fuller to use his number.
I'd have no problem if we open the books on a new number 04 for future use.
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Orange Blooded [4249]
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Re: It's time we talk about this for real
Jun 29, 2023, 5:13 PM
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How about .4 ?
No more retired numbers, honor those that have been and NEVER ask a former player to have his number “unretired.”
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CU Medallion [64693]
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The numbers aren't really comparing apples -to-apples...
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Jun 29, 2023, 10:53 AM
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The offense that Clemson ran during Fuller's tenure was vastly different than the offense we ran with DW4.
As an example, DW4 attempted more passes during his final season than Fuller did during his entire four-year Clemson career.
Just a different era and a totally different style of football.
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Freshman [-98]
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True
Jun 29, 2023, 3:26 PM
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Plus Fuller called the plays unless I’m remembering incorrectly.
Just a poor comparison.
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CU Medallion [66092]
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The "Fuller vs Watson" argument is fundamentally flawed.
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Jun 29, 2023, 10:59 AM
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It's just like the old "Marciano vs Ali" argument. You can't really compare the two, because the eras and offenses are so different.
You could make a counter argument that if Watson had been around running the offense that Fuller had to run, he would not have survived until the end of a season, from getting hit on virtually every play.
I say, let's just be very grateful that we had TWO great #4's, and leave it at that!
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Starter [397]
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Re: It's time we talk about this for real
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Jun 29, 2023, 11:08 AM
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If I understand you correctly, your post is twofold. One, If Clemson is going to retire a number, who gets the honor of that retirement. And two, should we "un-retire" a number in the event a recruit wants to wear that number.
I remember this coming up years ago concerning the number "66". Banks McFadden was number 66, probably one of the greatest Clemson athletes ever. William Perry was also number 66 while at Clemson. But he is probably more famous as number 72 for the Chicago Bears. 66 was retired for McFadden.
If the jersey number is a deal breaker for a recruit, I'm not so sure I want him. Really? you can't play unless you have "your" number? please.
We could get into a situation where we simply run out numbers that are acceptable (under the rules) for that position. Why not retire the number under the period jersey of the time? Fuller, Watson, McFadden, Perry, et al are worthy.
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CU Guru [1156]
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Re: It's time we talk about this for real
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Jun 29, 2023, 3:45 PM
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Remember the Anthony Downs “I’m not coming unless I can wear number 4 fiasco”
How did that work out?
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Orange Blooded [4249]
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Orange Blooded [4249]
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Re: It's time we talk about this for real
Jun 29, 2023, 5:18 PM
[ in reply to Re: It's time we talk about this for real ] |
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I agree….do we really want a player that insists on a certain number? Let him choose from these:
@$!;/%#<*>
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All-In [47840]
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Re: I'm going of memory on this.
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Jun 29, 2023, 11:16 AM
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I've heard in the past that Clemson doesn't retire numbers, only jerseys.
This was during the Tommy West era when a recruit wanted to use the number 4 and was granted it. I believe Steve Fuller wasn't happy about this at all. Either way this player didn't stay at Clemson long.
When DW4 came and wanted #4 I think the administrators, coaches, Steve Fuller, and Deshaun Watson had a chat. Steve gave his blessing and and a commemorative patch was used on Watsons jersey.
The same situation with Tavien Feaster and the #28 with C.J. Spiller.
I personally don't like the retiring of numbers. Clemson has the "Ring of Honor" for the purpose of honoring past players and other contributors.
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CU Guru [1156]
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Re: I'm going of memory on this.
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Jun 29, 2023, 3:47 PM
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My understanding was that they are not retiring any more numbers. Just jerseys
Seems like Sterling Sharpe refused to un retire No 2 at coots
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All-In [27434]
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Re: It's time we talk about this for real
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Jun 29, 2023, 11:20 AM
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Bigger disappointment in my opinion is that number 28 was taken out of retirement.
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CU Guru [1935]
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Re: It's time we talk about this for real
Jun 29, 2023, 12:41 PM
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Why have this discussion? Lets celebrate them both, and thank God both chose Clemson. Clemson football had languished form the late 60s through the mid 70s. I sat through some very poor teams {1974} the exception. Along comes Steve Fuller, Butler, Stuckey... Fuller was my first Clemson hero. The Valley became electric again. Deshaun, like Fuller, was the key that made the engine roar. Both are worthy. a Clemson man needs no introduction, let them both have their place, both are deserving!
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Hall of Famer [23112]
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Re: It's time we talk about this for real
Jun 29, 2023, 12:52 PM
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I agree with this. I think it would be better to just honor players in the ring of honor and not retire jersey numbers. Then we don’t have this discussion.
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Orange Blooded [4074]
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CU Guru [1861]
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Re: It's time we talk about this for real
Jun 29, 2023, 12:51 PM
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While I kind of agree....Fuller played in a different era of run first offense, but DW4 was the primary reason we were able to play for back to back Nattys. I wouldn't object to retiring the #4 again.
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Hall of Famer [24648]
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Not fair....
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Jun 29, 2023, 4:36 PM
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They didn't throw the ball back then like they do now....
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Orange Blooded [2034]
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Re: It's time we talk about this for real
Jun 29, 2023, 4:49 PM
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No number should ever be retired in any sport. It’s completely stupid. Go ahead and put the number up on the rafter with their name, that’s fine, but don’t retire the number. There’s only a limited number of numbers available. Eventually you run out of numbers.
And Watson’s lack of character should preclude him from having his number retired, even it previously was under Fuller.
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Re: It's time we talk about this for real
Jun 29, 2023, 6:33 PM
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I watched them both play every game at Clemson. Steve Fuller was a fine player and had a huge part in turning the entire program around to the national power it is today. It was awful when he arrived on campus. But to be honest, Steve was not anywhere near the player that DW4 was.....not even close. Let's just say they might have jumped the gun a bit on retiring the #4. DW4 was a generational talent. Steve, was not.
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