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CU Medallion [58597]
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Bottom line on realignment ...
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Sep 29, 2023, 10:25 AM
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Larry Williams and some other pretty reliable people have said Clemson leaving the ACC is imminent. David Hood, who I trust on this more than any other, says it's not.
Either way, the important thing is that we know that Clemson is actively looking for a way to leave the ACC.
If that weren't the case, and we were firmly committed to the ACC long-term and honoring the GOR, either Neff or Clements would put all that to bed immediately with a short and simple press release to that effect. The fact that they are not doing that tells us all we need to know. They would say "We are not looking to leave the ACC". Therefore when you combine that with other factors that would indicate Clemson would benefit from leaving, or that it may even be necessary to the survival of the program at a high level, then it's not just wishful thinking, but perfectly reasonable to think that Clemson and others will be leaving the ACC at some point in the next year or so, if not sooner.
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CU Guru [1047]
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Re: Bottom line on realignment ...
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Sep 29, 2023, 10:31 AM
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Honestly, we aren't leaving. I understand they might be trying, but trying doesn't change the fact that it's basically contractually not feasible, and there isn't really anywhere to go.
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CU Medallion [58597]
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LOL!***
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Sep 29, 2023, 10:32 AM
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All-In [44091]
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There is always a way out of contracts of this magnitude.
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Sep 29, 2023, 10:34 AM
[ in reply to Re: Bottom line on realignment ... ] |
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You can bet that Clemson's team of lawyers will find a way to challenge the harsh terms.
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CU Guru [1047]
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Re: There is always a way out of contracts of this magnitude.
Sep 29, 2023, 10:37 AM
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Ther isn't always a way out, because they way out is too expensive.
People who keep saying there is way out if any contract fail to answer this question. If you can get out of any contract, why doesn't the ACC just get out of the contract with ESPN, and sign with someone else for more money.
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110%er [8124]
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Re: There is always a way out of contracts of this magnitude.
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Sep 29, 2023, 12:25 PM
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Ther isn't always a way out, because they way out is too expensive.
People who keep saying there is way out if any contract fail to answer this question. If you can get out of any contract, why doesn't the ACC just get out of the contract with ESPN, and sign with someone else for more money.
You seem to be missing the fact that the ACC as a whole, is fairly valued in terms of compensation from ESPN. My evidence is the amount of money offered to the Pac10 and the amount of money being paid to the Big12. There is no one out there who will pay the ACC as a whole, more than the current ESPN contract. The rub is some schools in the ACC are worth much more than one share of the payout and some are worth much less than one share even though the payouts to member schools are divided evenly. So the top schools want out as their viewership numbers would be appealing to the Big two conferences who offer a much higher payout. If BC, Cuse and Wake type schools were smart they would be willing to take a 3/4 share to keep Clemson, FSU and UNC in the fold and the conference together. Even a 3/4 share would be more than they will receive once the ACC disbands.
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CU Medallion [58597]
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CU Guru [1047]
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Re: tdqtiger needs to let them know that they are wasting their
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Sep 29, 2023, 10:41 AM
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Just because you try something doesn't mean it's guaranteed to work. The ACC has been trying to increase revenue for awhile, but it's hasn't worked.
I prefer to deal with reality, and not live in fantasyland.
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CU Medallion [64621]
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The reality is....
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Sep 29, 2023, 10:47 AM
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you have no idea what you're talking about.
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CU Guru [1047]
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Re: The reality is....
Sep 29, 2023, 11:00 AM
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Actually I do.
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CU Medallion [64621]
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No you don't...
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Sep 29, 2023, 11:28 AM
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You have an opinion and you're certainly entitled to it, but it is not based on facts.
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Legend [18352]
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Re: The reality is....
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Sep 29, 2023, 12:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: The reality is.... ] |
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Actually unless you’re in the building with them with absolute specifics you don’t know jack ####
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CU Medallion [58597]
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I'm not guaranteeing anything - you are the one doing that.
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Sep 29, 2023, 10:49 AM
[ in reply to Re: tdqtiger needs to let them know that they are wasting their ] |
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I do not guarantee it will work; never have. But you do guarantee that it can't work. If it's guaranteed to fail, then you need to let Neff and Clements and the BOT and their team of lawyers know that they are in fantasyland, and save them the embarrassment and wasting all of their time, since you know more than they do.
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CU Guru [1047]
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Re: I'm not guaranteeing anything - you are the one doing that.
Sep 29, 2023, 11:11 AM
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I didn't say it was guaranteed to fail. By your logic, none of us can come on here and say, "We will beat Syracuse," or "Dabo will correct these problems" or anything like that. I also don't see you correcting people who have posted that it's "guaranteed" that Clemson will leave the conference.
I explained my position. Just because you try something doesn't mean it's guaranteed to succeed. A GOR isn't something that just got made up by the ACC. GOR contracts have been around for decades. They are used in the music industry, the movie industry, the publishing industry, just to name a few. They are solid legal contract. This idea that we will just hand the ACC 10 bucks and be done is simply not realistic.
That doesn't even address the issue of having somewhere to go. Looking at this objectively, there is a serious question as to whether the Big Ten or SEC actually want to add any ACC teams, much less Clemson and Florida St.
I prefer to see things objectively and not bury my head in the said. And yes, making snide comments to avoid the substance of the issue is burying your head in the sand.
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CU Medallion [58597]
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Okay, you didn't use the word "guarantee" when you expressed
Sep 29, 2023, 11:32 AM
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your opinion and made your proclamation that "we aren't leaving". You got me, and I stand corrected. You did, however, imply that I was guaranteeing that we were leaving: "Just because you try something doesn't mean it's guaranteed to work." I never guaranteed anything.
You then implied that you are dealing with reality, while I am in a fantasyland: "I prefer to deal with reality, and not live in fantasyland" because I think it's likely, and reasonable (never guaranteed) to think that Clemson will leave the ACC based on the fact that Clemson is currently actively pursuing a way out of the ACC, and remaining in the ACC is unsustainable (unless something major changes) if Clemson is to remain a serious football power.
I have never said or implied that it's just a matter of handing the ACC 10 bucks and leaving. Ever. I realize it's a legal nightmare, and may indeed be impossible. However, the fact that the president of the university, the athletic director, the BOT, and our team of lawyers are actively pursuing a way out, tells me that they do not think it is "fantasyland" (your words) and does not equate to burying our heads in the sand. I trust their knowledge and expertise on this matter more than yours.
I think you have experience in contract law in some form or fashion, and just want to make sure everybody on here knows about it.
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CU Guru [1558]
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Re: Okay, you didn't use the word "guarantee" when you expressed
Sep 29, 2023, 3:03 PM
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your opinion and made your proclamation that "we aren't leaving". You got me, and I stand corrected. You did, however, imply that I was guaranteeing that we were leaving: "Just because you try something doesn't mean it's guaranteed to work." I never guaranteed anything.
You then implied that you are dealing with reality, while I am in a fantasyland: "I prefer to deal with reality, and not live in fantasyland" because I think it's likely, and reasonable (never guaranteed) to think that Clemson will leave the ACC based on the fact that Clemson is currently actively pursuing a way out of the ACC, and remaining in the ACC is unsustainable (unless something major changes) if Clemson is to remain a serious football power.
I have never said or implied that it's just a matter of handing the ACC 10 bucks and leaving. Ever. I realize it's a legal nightmare, and may indeed be impossible. However, the fact that the president of the university, the athletic director, the BOT, and our team of lawyers are actively pursuing a way out, tells me that they do not think it is "fantasyland" (your words) and does not equate to burying our heads in the sand. I trust their knowledge and expertise on this matter more than yours.
I think you have experience in contract law in some form or fashion, and just want to make sure everybody on here knows about it.
Does anybody know the law firm we are using?
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CU Medallion [58597]
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I don't.***
Sep 29, 2023, 4:09 PM
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CU Medallion [64621]
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but you're not objective...
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Sep 29, 2023, 11:35 AM
[ in reply to Re: I'm not guaranteeing anything - you are the one doing that. ] |
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and you can't offer an objective and informed assessment because you have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what is taking place behind the scenes.
You have an opinion and that's it, but feel free to champion it to your hearts content. Just don't be surprised or offended when others disagree with you.
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CU Guru [1047]
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Re: but you're not objective...
Sep 29, 2023, 12:09 PM
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Nobody is disagreeing with me based on a factual or logical basis. People are disagreeing wirh me because of an emotional reaction. People are afraid of Clemson being left on a situation where we cannot compete, and they are trying to convince themselves it won't happen.
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CU Medallion [58597]
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In your opinion, it's not logical.
Sep 29, 2023, 12:55 PM
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In my opinion, it is very reasonable to think that Clemson is likely to leave the ACC in the next year or two. And that is not, as you claim, based on emotion or fantasy. You are flat out wrong about that. Again, here is what I am basing it on:
1. Unless something significant changes, and Clemson stays in the ACC They will be unable to compete $$$-wise at a high level. I am confident that Clemson will do everything possible to make sure that does not happen.
2. We know that Clemson has a team of lawyers who are actively exploring opportunities to get out of the ACC. You say that's a fantasy and can't happen, but obviously they think it can, or they would not be wasting their time. I trust their knowledge and opinions more than I do you and yours.
So, we have established that Clemson has to leave the ACC or become irrelevant, and their legal team and negotiators are actively pursuing that objective.
Based on that reasoning, not emotion, I think it's reasonable that Clemson will leave the ACC at some point over the next couple of years. Again, I guarantee nothing; it may not happen. I am just giving my opinion based on the facts mentioned above.
Your opinion regarding the legal inability to get out of the GOR and subsequent outcome of having to remain in the ACC may be correct. You are incorrect, however, unless you are "in the room" and have confidential information, to claim with any certainty that it can't happen, or that it won't happen.
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CU Medallion [64621]
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110%er [5049]
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All-In [26387]
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Re: I'm not guaranteeing anything - you are the one doing that.
Sep 29, 2023, 12:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: I'm not guaranteeing anything - you are the one doing that. ] |
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ANY, REPEAT, ANY contract can be broken. That is the real world. If you want to be technical. The consequences of breaking a contract may be severe, but to say a contract cannot be broken is incorrect.Clemso any FSU AND ANY OTHER TEAM WISHINV TO LEAVE THE ACC will find a way out of the contract.
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CU Guru [1466]
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Re: There is always a way out of contracts of this magnitude.
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Sep 29, 2023, 11:13 AM
[ in reply to There is always a way out of contracts of this magnitude. ] |
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If someone can find a way out of the Massey prenup, then someone can find a way out of this! Let's just hope they're as smart as Catherine Zeta-Jones.
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Associate AD [845]
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110%er [5049]
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You wailling to put $$ on that statement?
Sep 29, 2023, 11:42 AM
[ in reply to Re: Bottom line on realignment ... ] |
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I will bet you that Clemson will announce they are leaving the ACC by 2026 or earlier.
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CU Guru [1047]
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Re: You wailling to put $$ on that statement?
Sep 29, 2023, 12:01 PM
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Yes. I'm willing to bet any amount of money you want to name.
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Orange Blooded [4111]
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Commissioner [914]
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Re: Bottom line on realignment ...
Sep 29, 2023, 12:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: Bottom line on realignment ... ] |
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Maryland got out for 30mil when contract said 50mil. So anything is possible
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110%er [8009]
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Re: Bottom line on realignment ...
Sep 29, 2023, 1:37 PM
[ in reply to Re: Bottom line on realignment ... ] |
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Tdqtiger, just so I can better understand all sides, what is your opinion of which conference Clemson should be in going forward. In other words, if there was no contractual obligation and any conference was an option, would you prefer Clemson join SEC, BIG, B12, or remain the the ACC?
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CU Medallion [64621]
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It is no secret...
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Sep 29, 2023, 10:36 AM
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that Clemson is pursuing an ACC exit strategy. The sooner the better, but I think it's fair to say that Clemson, among others, leaving the ACC will eventually happen. The bigger questions are when and where do we land.
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Athletic Dir [869]
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What do we actually gain
Sep 29, 2023, 11:03 AM
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if we leave?
Before so-called re-alignment, both the ACC and the Big10 were more geographically compact than the SEC. Now geographically if the Clemson were to leave the ACC the SEC is actually the best fit. Joining the Big 10 makes every game we play for every sport, a major travel game via airplane. With the SEC most of the travel would be within 6 hours and just 6 teams out of that range.
Another perhaps odd commonality is that 100% of SEC schools are in states that have a version of a southern accent as their native way of speaking. Not that it matters much, but perhaps cultural commonality does matter to some extent.
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Legend [19635]
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Money......a lot of it***
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Sep 29, 2023, 11:05 AM
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Asst Coach [712]
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Re: What do we actually gain
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Sep 29, 2023, 11:54 AM
[ in reply to What do we actually gain ] |
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How do people just not realize the whole reason anyone is leaving their conference is MONEY??! I swear how does that fact elude people’s minds?
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Athletic Dir [869]
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Re: What do we actually gain
Sep 29, 2023, 12:33 PM
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Perhaps I was misunderstood....All things being equal what would be the advantages of one conference over another?
It was noted in a couple of articles about the recent ACC expansion that student athlete travel was the #2 reason Clemson voted no.
So money is not the only thing. Why join the Big 10 over the SC if the travel costs in terms of TIME and MONEY are significant? If the vast majority your fans/students can only afford to go to home games that also has an impact.
How many fans will make the drive to Columbus Ohio vs Tuscaloosa? Knoxville Vs Ann Arbor?
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CU Medallion [58597]
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It's simple. Everything is based on the assumption that
Sep 29, 2023, 1:28 PM
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all other things will not be equal. As it stands, the SEC and B1G have TV contracts that will bring those schools a LOT more money than other conferences. ACC teams would quickly fall behind and be unable to keep up and compete. Clemson would therefore no longer be a serious playoff contender, and probably not even a top 25 team. There would be the haves, and the have-nots, and Clemson and the rest of the ACC would be have-nots. The difference would be so great that travel cost and things like that would be irrelevant. Now, if it comes down to choosing between the B1G and the SEC, then those other things may play into it.
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Legend [17860]
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Your bottom looks gorgeous with the realignment.
Sep 29, 2023, 11:41 AM
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So #### sexy!!!!
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Standout [340]
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For legal reasons it will happen after the new SEC contract
Sep 29, 2023, 12:43 PM
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kicks in if we go B1G. It could happen at any time ESPN decides if we go SEC.
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Head Coach [762]
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Re: For legal reasons it will happen after the new SEC contract
Sep 29, 2023, 1:05 PM
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Clemson wants to leave and join the B1G for 2 major reasons.
1) Athletic revenue
2) Overall Academic Status advancement , increased research opportunities and a wider student recruitment pool.
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Freshman [-79]
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Standout [340]
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If ESPN wants to let us out of the GOR at nil or discounted
Sep 29, 2023, 3:12 PM
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value, then, yes, they will have a huge voice in where we go. I did not mean to imply the decision was purely theirs.
No matter what happens, to get to the B1G there will be legal wrangling. ESPN can make that hard or easy since they own the GOR. That’s all I was saying.
AllOrange247365
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Freshman [-79]
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So yeah they dont dictate anything. They dont have a voice in it.
Sep 29, 2023, 6:35 PM
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Sorry.
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Standout [340]
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They own the GOR - they tell us how much to pay when we
Sep 29, 2023, 6:45 PM
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leave or that they're suing for full payment. They are indeed the major player in the scenario, even beyond the ACC itself.
But I never said the word "dictate".
Don't know why you've got a burr up your ### today, but you can backpedal yourself a little just to be a little human with your response.
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Freshman [-79]
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There will (4) superconferences of (16) team each.
Sep 29, 2023, 1:41 PM
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(4) divisions of (4) teams within each conference. The winners of divisions advance to a (16) team playoff.
We will be going to the “SEC” whatever that ends up being called.
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Replies: 43
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