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CU Guru [1404]
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So if Clemson was to fire...
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Mar 5, 2023, 4:03 PM
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Coach BB after this year, what do you think that shows other potential candidates?
If you were a strong, up and coming coach who is a great recruiter, motivator, teacher, developer and strategist, why would you look at coming to Clemson if Coach BB is fired after finishing 3rd in league when projected to be 11th and wining more conference games ever in Clemson history while dealing with several key injuries to start the season and during middle of season?
These decisions impact future decisions and opportunities.
So if the Administration makes a tough decision, then every year the new coach better average top 6 or better in ACC, win on average 11 or more conference games in ACC, and win an average of 19-20 total games across their tenure.
Achieve that would be slightly better than what Coach BB teams have averaged playing in ACC with 12 or 15 teams in the conference. And Coach BB teams have averaged at least, but usually better than Coach Purnell teams which played in an ACC Conference of only 9 teams or 11 teams or 12 teams.
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Orange Blooded [3380]
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Re: So if Clemson was to fire...
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10
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Mar 5, 2023, 4:04 PM
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It shows 13 years of mediocrity isn’t acceptable anymore.
But spin it however it makes you feel better.
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Orange Blooded [3420]
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Re: So if Clemson was to fire...
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Mar 5, 2023, 4:32 PM
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It would show that expectations for Clemson Men’s basketball are high. That Clemson will no longer settle for mediocre play and that the players need to populate the NBA when they leave.
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All-In [34810]
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good luck***
Mar 5, 2023, 5:21 PM
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Legend [16044]
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Re: So if Clemson was to fire...
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Mar 5, 2023, 5:31 PM
[ in reply to Re: So if Clemson was to fire... ] |
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Then you and other fans would have to back up your statement “ that Clemson will no longer settle for mediocre play and that the players need to populate the NBA when they leave.
If you are saying the BOT , the AD and fans have high expectations then our fans need to increase the attendance at home games as well as away games those especially on weekends. The BOT and AD should start making plans to funnel more money into the basketball program. If you fire Coach Brownell after this year the next HC would expect more money.
My big questions are, if FSU is complaining about finances stating that there is a large difference between the haves and have nots. A conversation that included Clemson and Miami indicating they are getting the financial shaft. Next, where does the money come from to buyout BB’s contract, the additional funds I am sure a new HC would expect into basketball. We have new women’s sports to support too. A new HC would probably expect to make at least what Brad is making. Unless AD’s started building a coach’s contract based on incentives. IMO thats how all contracts should be structured. Let them earn that big money.
What do others think about waterboyll’s post as well as mine ???
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CU Guru [1404]
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Re: So if Clemson was to fire...
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Mar 5, 2023, 4:54 PM
[ in reply to Re: So if Clemson was to fire... ] |
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Well then "mediocrity" is a funny ord for you because averaging a finish above 8th is better than half the league.
I thought mediocre meant average. So if you were above the average you were better
So are you saying Clemson is ready to have and support a basketball program that will consistently finish in top 1/3 of ACC and go to NCAAs 3 of every 5 years ?
Because it has yet to do that at any level for Clemson basketball no matter the coach.
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All-In [30526]
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13 Years
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Mar 5, 2023, 5:07 PM
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How many ACC titles?
How many NCAA invites?
How many NCAA wins?
How many top recruiting classes?
How many players has he put in the NBA?
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CU Guru [1410]
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Re: 13 Years
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Mar 5, 2023, 6:39 PM
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Good news is that two of these are in his contract incentives. Three are not. If they are that important, it’s on Neff to include them. If not, he will stay. Contract has an incentive for going to the NIT, this should be removed if not acceptable performance. Neff needs to raise the bar. If not, Brownell is not the issue, our expectations are!
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Orange Blooded [3978]
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Re: 13 Years
Mar 6, 2023, 7:19 AM
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Haha I would absolutely remove the NIT as an incentive if I were Neff.
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CU Guru [1404]
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Re: 13 Years
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Mar 5, 2023, 10:50 PM
[ in reply to 13 Years ] |
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Better yet, count how many in last 50 years.
Then, determine if it hasn't much or ever routinely and consistently occurred, why it is expected.
Of course, we would want all the things you list.
But shouldn't fans pressure Clemson's BOD, AD and community to finally improve Clemson basketball to reach exactly what you want?
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Orange Blooded [3978]
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Re: 13 Years
Mar 6, 2023, 7:22 AM
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Why do fans point to our history as a reason to accept what BB has done? Bunch of Tommy Bowden supporters on here.
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CU Guru [1502]
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Re: 112 Years
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Mar 6, 2023, 12:01 AM
[ in reply to 13 Years ] |
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How many ACC Titles?
Officially: Zero
Unofficially: 1 (1990)
How many NCAAT invites?
13
How many NCAA wins?
Officially: 1400
Unofficially: 1402
(Incidentally, Florida State has 1172, and they didn’t start playing basketball until 1956.)
How many Top Recruiting Classes?
Zero
(Incidentally, it’s only happened in football like one time either).
How many players has Clemson put in the NBA?
According to this site (basketball.realgm.com) 18
(Incidentally, there have been 3 players to play in an NBA game who have played for Brownell at Clemson. However, only 1 lasted more than 1 season).
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110%er [7191]
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No it shows we are crazy and a no win situation
Mar 5, 2023, 10:32 PM
[ in reply to Re: So if Clemson was to fire... ] |
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We’ll be back to the 11-12 play-in game in thecACc tourney. Pick a better year to gripe.
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Orange Blooded [2868]
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The Lunatic Fringe hates CBB
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Mar 5, 2023, 5:10 PM
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And will never give him any credit. This is one of the best teams in Clemson history. Firing him after this season would be a stupid, redneck move. It is not going to happen. Fourteen wins in the ACC means you have a man who can coach. You can say the league sucks, but CBB is only responsible for Clemson. This season was one of his best coaching jobs.
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All-In [27443]
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Re: The Lunatic Fringe hates CBB
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Mar 5, 2023, 5:19 PM
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In his best coaching year ever he managed to lose to the worst team in the country. A team that 3/4ths through to season had only won 3 total games. A team that has still only won 3 games (other than beating Clemson in their coaches best coaching year ever).
I don’t care how you try and spin that…if you’re saying Brad Brownells best coaching year is this year and that stain is on his resume, then I say this team simply out talented most wins, not out coached.
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110%er [9292]
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Re: The Lunatic Fringe hates CBB
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Mar 5, 2023, 6:05 PM
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The sad thing is that this guy doesn’t even realize he’s making everyone else’s argument that wants to move on from BB with his “one of the best teams in Clemson history” comment… if this is one of our best teams in history and we don’t even make the tournament or barely squeak in, is that who you want leading our program? Is that the kind of program we are satisfied with year in and year out? It’s an embarrassing argument to even try and make.
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Freshman [-98]
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Re: The Lunatic Fringe hates CBB
Mar 5, 2023, 5:46 PM
[ in reply to The Lunatic Fringe hates CBB ] |
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Once again, Cobbox is correct. If you can’t admit that this team had a good season, you can just imagine how chapped the rear ends of Duke/UNC nongraduates that take over their boards must feel!
For the masses, when a team is predicted to finish in the lower quarter of the league, yet gets the tourney #3 seed, that is a good season by any standard, OTHER than the “gamecocks live rent free in my head” standard that our nongraduates feel is the best way to stay unhappy over things you can’t change.
Obviously, now we need a new baseball coach - what’s that payout?
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Walk-On [131]
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Re: The Lunatic Fringe hates CBB
Mar 5, 2023, 10:05 PM
[ in reply to The Lunatic Fringe hates CBB ] |
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#### right. With the players that ANY coach can get to come to Clemson, Brownell does a helluva job.
He's a class act, also.
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Orange Blooded [4610]
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Re: So if Clemson was to fire...
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Mar 5, 2023, 5:39 PM
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The additional asterisk will be that the best year was a product of unprecendented additional years of COVID bonus eligibility for Hunter Tyson and Brevin Galloway.
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110%er [8159]
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Re: So if Clemson was to fire...
Mar 5, 2023, 7:12 PM
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The additional asterisk will be that the best year was a product of unprecendented additional years of COVID bonus eligibility for Hunter Tyson and Brevin Galloway.
Every team has the same opportunity/benefit in terms of an extra Covid year so the playing field is level. It does show what a difference an extra player or two can make if we had the will plus NIL to make it happen
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Orange Blooded [4610]
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Re: So if Clemson was to fire...
Mar 6, 2023, 9:14 AM
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My point was simply that we should wonder what this season would have been like without Tyson and Galloway...because without the bonus COVID year, the team would be without their leadership and scoring.
Sure, every team has had equal chances to leverage COVID years, but how many teams depend SO MUCH on the players who came back to use their COVID years?
I give CBB credit for getting them to stay/transfer, just like I blame him for getting outcoached at LSV, Loyola-Chicago, SCAR...and that's just this year.
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110%er [8159]
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Re: So if Clemson was to fire...
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Mar 5, 2023, 7:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: So if Clemson was to fire... ] |
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The additional asterisk will be that the best year was a product of unprecendented additional years of COVID bonus eligibility for Hunter Tyson and Brevin Galloway.
Every team has the same opportunity/benefit in terms of an extra Covid year so the playing field is level. It does show what a difference an extra player or two can make if we had the will plus NIL to make it happen
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Legend [16970]
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Re: So if Clemson was to fire...
Mar 5, 2023, 11:00 PM
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Extra Covid eligibility is not spread equally so your premise is flawed. It is also a one time variant that no one could have prepared in advance - meaning is not like opting not to redshirt players while another team does. If your roster was predominantly upperclassmen in 2020 you may have some real disparity with other teams in your conference through no fault of your own.
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110%er [8159]
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Re: So if Clemson was to fire...
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Mar 5, 2023, 11:18 PM
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Extra Covid eligibility is not spread equally so your premise is flawed. It is also a one time variant that no one could have prepared in advance - meaning is not like opting not to redshirt players while another team does. If your roster was predominantly upperclassmen in 2020 you may have some real disparity with other teams in your conference through no fault of your own.
So you think only certain players or schools were given the extra year and some were not allowed the extra year? Can you provide a link?
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Legend [16970]
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Re: So if Clemson was to fire...
Mar 6, 2023, 8:25 AM
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That’s not what I said. But some programs have had their covid eligible players move on while others haven’t. It was a one off, luck of the draw. Unlikely redshirting that is a constant ongoing concern for all teams. Schools laden with super-seniors have an obvious advantage. Think Pitt football 2 years ago. But isn’t something coaches could build a recruiting strategy/philosophy around.
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Orange Blooded [2868]
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So what?
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Mar 6, 2023, 7:04 AM
[ in reply to Re: So if Clemson was to fire... ] |
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Who got Tyson to stay? Who got Galloway to come to Clemson? Give CBB some credit. That’s the problem with the Lunatic Fringe — all negative, can’t see the positives
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Legend [16071]
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Shows them we expect to make the NCAA Tourney...
Mar 5, 2023, 6:07 PM
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And that should be their goal too.
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Rock Defender [71]
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Re: So if Clemson was to fire...
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Mar 5, 2023, 6:09 PM
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If I were a coach I’d think #### they gave him 13 years. The man had 1 great season on his own and they gave him 13?
His first season he inherited a pretty good roster. This year he benefited from the worst ACC season ever and has players that shouldn’t have eligibility.
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110%er [6153]
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He also made the Sweet 16 in between, so there’s that.
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Mar 5, 2023, 8:46 PM
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Credit where credit is due.
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CU Guru [1404]
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Re: So if Clemson was to fire...
Mar 5, 2023, 10:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: So if Clemson was to fire... ] |
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He did not get a team of talent when he took over.
OP did not recruit high level talented basketball players. He had Trevor Booker. That's it.
He recruited athletes who played basketball so he could press all game. But his players did not shoot well consistently not FTs, 2Pts or 3Pts.
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Legend [16970]
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Re: So if Clemson was to fire...
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Mar 5, 2023, 11:04 PM
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The freshman class Brownell was left with was the highest rated recruiting class in Clemson history. But please continue.
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Legend [16182]
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That class was a joke...Devin was lazy, Milton was overrated
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Mar 6, 2023, 3:03 AM
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Noel was an unrepentant chucker and Donte couldn't even dribble...OP's BEST class was the Hammonds, Mayes, Perry class
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Legend [16970]
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Re: That class was a joke...Devin was lazy, Milton was overrated
Mar 6, 2023, 8:19 AM
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Wonder who coached them?
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Legend [16182]
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OP coached them for a year and decided he was better off
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Mar 6, 2023, 1:04 PM
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going to Depaul Einstein...Noel had about 3 coaches and never improved and Donte had to go to ODU to average 8 points a game...The only two players who showed any improvement were the two that Brad coached for 3 years...You must not have seen any of them actually play
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Legend [16970]
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Re: OP coached them for a year and decided he was better off
Mar 9, 2023, 8:23 AM
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Hey “Einstein” (I assume you meant that as a positive affirmation as anything otherwise would be a violation of tos). Booker and Jennings. They combined for a single start their one year under Purnell. Booker’s per 40 min points improved .8 points from his freshman year to senior year. Jennings’ productivity declined his Junior and, then again, his senior year. I’m sure you meant well.
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Orange Blooded [2868]
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Legend [16970]
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Re: He also got stuck with Milton Jennings
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Mar 6, 2023, 8:20 AM
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Yes, the coaching he received later absolutely no role in his development. The McDonalds’s All-American was so terrible that super star player development coach Brownell couldn’t salvage him.
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Orange Blooded [2868]
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ACC
Mar 6, 2023, 7:09 AM
[ in reply to Re: So if Clemson was to fire... ] |
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You play who is put in front of you. Third seed. 14-6. School record for conference wins. CBB is responsible for Clemson, not the rest of the league.
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All-In [40130]
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Should’ve been fired last year. Doubt you can for him this year.***
Mar 5, 2023, 6:38 PM
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110%er [8159]
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Re: So if Clemson was to fire...
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Mar 5, 2023, 8:51 PM
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NCSU is a good example when they fired Herb Sendek. He was there 10 years and won 59% of his games but that was not enough so he got the boot. The next two coaches won 52% & 58%, both receiving hefty buyouts. Their current coach is winning 65% in his first two years but got destroyed by CBB at home this year.
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Legend [16970]
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Re: So if Clemson was to fire...
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Mar 5, 2023, 11:03 PM
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The old reliable “mediocrity forever” defense. Why risk being bad when the coach you have can insure you aren’t outright terrible. If 3rd in conference while being considered outside the ncaa bubble is good then Brad is your guy - and that apparently is the acceptable standard for many of our so called basketball fans.
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Orange Blooded [2868]
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20 Plus Wins and 14 ACC Wins
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Mar 6, 2023, 1:42 AM
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Is not a fireable offense anywhere. Would be the dumbest move in Clemson athletic history. It would say to the rest of the country — those people know zero about hoops. Again, all you Lunatic Fringe torch burners — check the history of the program. Go ahead I’ll wait. No matter how you cut it, no matter what happens next Sunday, this has been a historic season for Clemson.
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CU Guru [1487]
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Yet again
Mar 6, 2023, 1:59 AM
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In 12 years we've had an average NET of 76th.
In 12 years we've had two top-40 finishes, and one of those was with OP's players.
We are currently on the bubble at best. We must win Thursday and likely the next game. Either way, lose to NC State and the bubble will have burst.
IF we don't make the tournament again that will mean another year of not finishing in the top 40.
Brad collects the 38th largest salary in America.
I hope like heck we make a run.
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Orange Blooded [3978]
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Re: So if Clemson was to fire...
Mar 6, 2023, 7:16 AM
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Hahah he says dang I’d love to go coach at a school where I can stay for 13 years and only make the tournament 1 out of 4 or 5. Sounds like a great deal.
The Hangup for any coach coming to Clemson is can they recruit here? I’d like to say yes but who knows.
To me BB has had his shot. He’s been given PLENTY of time. He’s not going to magically change who he’s been. With one of his best teams we still may not make the tournament. What’s that say?
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CU Guru [1723]
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Re: So if Clemson was to fire...
Mar 6, 2023, 7:25 AM
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We won 11 games with an OC in football that was fired and think we found a good replacement (though time will tell). If you’ve got a person lined up, you make the move. If not, you structure BB contract renewal in a way that pays for top 4 league and NCAA tournament attainment, so the buyout is low on the base if needed.
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Orange Blooded [4049]
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It clearly shows extreme patience
Mar 6, 2023, 7:36 AM
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Your take is wrong.
It shows that you don’t have to be good for 13 years while making a ton of money.
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Legend [16379]
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Brad still has an opportunity to do something he's never
Mar 6, 2023, 8:15 AM
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done before in his 12 prior years - win 2 games in the ACCT. If he does that, and makes the ACCT final for the first time since OP led us there, then we would make the NCAA tournament and the argument is moot. We'd tack on an extra year, and hopefully keep everything else the same on the buyout and guarantee side. His new assistants were given 2-year deals, so hopefully let those ride out also.
Failing that, a 'strong, up and coming coach who is a great recruiter, motivator, teacher, developer and strategist' would see an incredible opportunity in Clemson basketball.
- We're paying in or very close to the top 10% in the game with what we have today
- We're a national brand with an entire generation of kids knowing exactly where Clemson is on the map
- We have a fan base that will sell out the arena and pack the house for a winning team
- We are in a premier basketball league that is in transition and there for the taking longer term
- We have an AD with a windshield mentality and focus on what's possible ahead, not mired in what has failed in the past
- We are a big time, major, sports school that has firmly established itself over the past decade as a national heavyweight
- A new coach would be following the losingest basketball coach in Clemson history, far from any type of legend with impossible shoes to fill and a fan base spoiled with success.
Clemson basketball is largely an afterthought for the ACC media folks that do those pre-season projections. Finishing higher in league play than projected is less a matter of 'overachieving' and more a matter of the sad, ho hum status our program holds in the sport year in and year out. I would ask that you look into the times we've actually been projected 6th or higher in the ACC coming in (maybe twice?), after one of our better seasons the year prior, and where we wound up finishing after those. Knowing Brad has never strung together any type of consistency on the winning side, you can probably do the math there without looking.
Go Tigers! Go Tiger Basketball!
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All-In [27409]
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I am going to type this real slow
Mar 9, 2023, 8:07 AM
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So that you avid fans of Clemson can understand what I am saying. Coach Brownell is NOT going to be relieved of his position as the head coach of men’s basketball. Regardless of what happens tonight. He will be right back at Clemson next year. Sorry to break it to you so bluntly but there is another team within the state who would love to have your support.
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50
