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Hall of Famer [21652]
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Other than paying for coaching and facilities to attract
May 17, 2012, 1:28 PM
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talent.... how does money help a football team?
Cuz... I thought money was hugely important ONLY BECAUSE it's necessary to compete for the best coaches and talent. So what's my point?
FSU and Clemson have the talent, right now, to play with anyone...
FSU and Clemson pay our coaches as much as anyone.
Clemson and FSU's recent mediocrity can't be blamed on conference affiliation because the money gap hasn't actually made a difference yet.
So unless we plan on buying touchdowns, money doesn't begin to explain the weakness (over the last decade) of the ACC's top teams. Maybe money is holding Virginia Tech back but they are the best team in the conference already.
The ACC is capable of beating up on SEC teams right now. There is no magical TV contract, at this point, holding us back from that. The contract gap will hurt us down the road, but we can alleviate that by not sucking so badly in big non-conf games right now. Boise State owned UGA in Atlanta. Why? Coaching. Alabama is a national powerhouse. Why? Coaching. Clemson beat Auburn last year by 2 touchdowns. Why? Talent and coaching. Clemson got blown out in the Orange Bowl last year. Why? Coaching!
The money gap won't kill us for another 4 or 5 years. Maybe longer. We need to demand success from our coaches now...not wasting our time crying about Swofford. Prioritization folks.
Message was edited by: Completely Solid Orange®
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Legend [19248]
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I would say competition. It is easy to get up for Auburn or
May 17, 2012, 1:40 PM
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FSU--but then--that's it. What's left on the schedule? Duke? BC? Virginia?
In the SEC they go back to back weeks against great foes alot. Other than last season when was the last time Clemson faced a slate like Auburn, FSU, and VT in back to back games?
Competition builds a better program. JMHO.
GO Tigers!
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Athletic Dir [872]
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Agreed. Iron sharpens iron, and keeps you sharp each week***
May 17, 2012, 1:42 PM
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Hall of Famer [21652]
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Explain how that applies to Boise State. Go.
May 17, 2012, 2:43 PM
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Explies how that applied to one of the most dominant dynasties in CFB history FSU in the 90's. Go again.
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Legend [16230]
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BSU is an anomaly and they know it, that is why they have
May 17, 2012, 2:52 PM
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openly campaigned to join BCS conferences and the 90s ended 12 years ago...
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Hall of Famer [21652]
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Wait, huh? BSU exists right?
May 17, 2012, 2:57 PM
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What makes them an anomaly? Magic? Do you think by saying "they are an anomaly" means that they are not an example of a team that does not play down to competition? Are you not going to rationally engage the example at all? Do you not agree that coaching has overcome the lack of competition?
And what does the 90's being 12 years ago have to do with anything? Is that an argument against the fact they were an elite powerhouse despite a bad conference? Because that did happen. And there are other examples.
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Legend [16230]
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BSU is the exception...And FSU could not stay on top
May 17, 2012, 3:05 PM
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forever playing the likes of WFU,Duke, and the other bottom feeders...They were a powerhouse when they got here, they couldn't sustain it eating white meat...They built their powerhouse by playing anybody anywhere(BSU has a similar ascension) and when they got away from that, their reputation took a hit...
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Hall of Famer [21652]
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Are you aware of the coaching staff changes after 2000
May 17, 2012, 3:11 PM
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for Florida State? They were playing for the national championship in 2000, then they lost a huge chunk of their elite staff, and then they go 8-4 the very next year. And you think it has more to do with conference affiliation? Seriously?
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Legend [19248]
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I don't know but I do know when we played UGA every year
May 17, 2012, 3:27 PM
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in the 1970's and 80's we got better as a program. We wanted the success of UGA and we really hit a high point with them going 6-6-1 during the period (1977-1991). We have made a point of beating FSU and finally after more than 2 decades we can say we have outcompeted them from 2003 to the present. VT is another. Competition drives desire--I am not taking away from the coaching part because 10 years of TB proved that very well--but competition counts for some of it.
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Hall of Famer [21652]
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I totally agree that competition is important to the health
May 17, 2012, 3:36 PM
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of a football program. I am one of those who desperately want to play UGA all the time. I believe that playing big schools every year is important.
My only point is that, as long as we play two solid non-conference opponents (SCAR and UGA) and FSU, Miami, Virginia Tech and other get their act together, then Clemson and the rest of the ACC can save itself and eliminate the scary future it has coming to it.
At this moment, we have the recources to compete. That slowly erodes by the day, as the new money being pumped into other conferences makes clear.
I also believe that with better coaching that what we have been used to since Danny Ford leaving, Clemson could have easily overcome the mediocrity of the conference over the last quarter century and become a powerhouse.
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Athletic Dir [872]
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Someone said it best earlier this week.
May 17, 2012, 1:41 PM
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The ACC and Clemson have been chronic underacheivers. It sucks but it is true.
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CU Guru [1053]
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Re: Other than paying for coaching and facilities to attract
May 17, 2012, 1:41 PM
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I'd would expect that all the SEC assistant coaches will soon be paid in line with what the ACC pays its head coaches. Retaining good coaches (assistants included) is going to be a problem.
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Hall of Famer [21652]
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So then they will catch up? That's not been the argument. If
May 17, 2012, 2:45 PM
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you follow the arguments posted on this board lately about WHY the ACC is so down, you have to believe that the ACC has been hopelessly outspent already.
That is not the case, thus the argument is BS.
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CU Medallion [64755]
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So you don't think....
May 17, 2012, 1:43 PM
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$20 million more in annual revenue and more appealing television kick-off times equates to a competitive advantage?
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Athletic Dir [872]
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Re: So you don't think....
May 17, 2012, 1:45 PM
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certainly appeals to a 18-23 year old to be on primetime TV.
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CU Medallion [68610]
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Re: So you don't think....OUR TRADITIONAL NOON STARTS
May 17, 2012, 1:48 PM
[ in reply to So you don't think.... ] |
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are 11am central time. we wont get squat for exposure in the Big II. 
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Starter [379]
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Re: So you don't think....OUR TRADITIONAL NOON STARTS
May 17, 2012, 2:17 PM
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Uh, if we join the Big 12, don't you think we'd start at 1:00 or 2:00pm? And as I recall, 12:00 is not "traditional"- TV started that, we went off a 1:00pm for the first 90+ years of Clemson Football...
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Athletic Dir [872]
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Why the Paw points at 1 o'clock for you "youngins" haha***
May 17, 2012, 3:50 PM
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Hall of Famer [21652]
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Yes, but that money is going to be spent on what?
May 17, 2012, 2:42 PM
[ in reply to So you don't think.... ] |
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Think about it.
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Rock Defender [52]
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Re: Other than paying for coaching and facilities to attract
May 17, 2012, 1:45 PM
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Agree, it is all about coaching. Championships don't begin with scholarships, they begin with coaching. The SEC has more top notch coaches. Coaches that have won multiple national championships. Look at what Petrino did at Arkansas......one of the better coaches in the game and they become a top 10 team. Bama, same with Saban, Miles at LSU, Meyer when he was at Florida and so on. The ACC does not have the same caliber of coaches. This is why ACC basketball was at the top and now has fallen.......the league does not have the caliber of coaches that it once had top to bottom. It is why you see NC State making a move and bringing in top talent now......they upgraded the coaching staff significantly. VT has been the best football team in the league because Beamer and Bud Foster are probably the best. VT does not get top talent but a top notch coaching staff has been enough for them to win in the ACC. They don't have the talent to compete with the big boys out of conference. You have to have the money to compete in facilities and to attract the best coaches who can in turn attract the best players. This is why some of us wanted to hire a big name coach when we finally made a move from Bowden. To his credit, Dabo has proven that he is an outstanding recruiter and I hope he grows into being an outstanding coach.
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CU Medallion [55882]
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Re: Other than paying for coaching and facilities to attract
May 17, 2012, 1:46 PM
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Don't you know how much Referees cost these days. Well its a lot once the head reff gets his cut....
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110%er [9711]
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ANY SEC team could offer The Chad $1 million more
May 17, 2012, 1:50 PM
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next year to be their OC than we can. He's ours only until someone in the SEC wants him.
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Hall of Famer [21652]
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He is the highest paid OC in the country dude.
May 17, 2012, 2:43 PM
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What is the basis for your comment?
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110%er [9711]
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I'm aware. Speculation on my part. The coach salary database
May 17, 2012, 4:07 PM
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on USAToday shows the total salaries (in millions) of all coaches are:
Texas $8.8
Alabama $8.5
Auburn $7.6
LSU $7.6
Oklahoma $6.7
Florida $6.3
Arkanasa $5.9
SC shows up in 15th place at $5.2
Clemson shows up in 20th place at $4.7 (behind 9 SEC schools).
It certainly looks like the SEC in willing (and able) to pay more for coaches than the ACC. There is a huge discrepancy in HC coach salaries and it will trickle down to the coordinators next.
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CU Guru [1895]
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Well look at the coaches.
May 17, 2012, 4:26 PM
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Mack Brown
Nick Saban
Gene Chizik
Les Miles
Bob Stoops
Will Muschamp
Bobby Petrino
Steve Spurrier
Just about all of these guys have won a national title. Muschamp was the coach-in-waiting at Texas, and Petrino was a head coach in the NFL.
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110%er [9711]
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Bama was able to pay Saban $4 million per year to get him
May 17, 2012, 4:38 PM
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from the Dolphins. I don't think any ACC school could have done that.
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110%er [9110]
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You're right that money let's you buy the best coaches.....
May 17, 2012, 1:54 PM
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and have the facilities to attract the top talent but then IMO it's attitude from there on out. Sure, it's easier to get up for Auburn than for Duke but good coaches and top talent find a way to get up for playing Duke. Also, the bar gets set high to where less than the best by both coaches and players isn't acceptable.
Also, having the right attitude means you have the confidence to play your best instead of being shaky and unprepared (like we were in the OB).
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All-In [27310]
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Re: Other than paying for coaching and facilities to attract
May 17, 2012, 1:56 PM
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I would say the money would probably help us most (immediately, that is) in the baseball program. There are some much-needed improvements that need to occur there.
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Hall of Famer [21652]
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We are breaking ground on a major project after this season.
May 17, 2012, 2:46 PM
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We just made a massive renovation a couple years ago. I agree with you about more money helping... but I am saying we already have enough money to compete over the last few years.
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Member [20]
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Re: Other than paying for coaching and facilities to attract
May 17, 2012, 2:09 PM
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> FSU and Clemson pay our coaches as much as anyone.
If you're talking about head coaching salaries, that wasn't true last season. I'm not sure what Dabo's salary is for the 2012 season, but at least 10 SEC head coaches were paid more than he was last season (Vanderbilt's James Franklin's salary wasn't listed in the source I found). Dabo only made more than Kentucky's Joker Philips. Florida was able to pay $3.2 million to a first year unproven head coach, more than $1 million more than Dabo's salary.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/story/2011-11-17/cover-college-football-coaches-salaries-rise/51242232/1
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Hall of Famer [21652]
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Why would you isolate head coaching? I'm talking about money
May 17, 2012, 2:47 PM
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spent on coaching. I think we all know that one coach is worthless. Good staffs win championships. When FSU's coaching staff broke up, FSU fell of the wagon.
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Legend [18135]
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Actually, Saban makes as much as our whole staff combined.
May 17, 2012, 2:59 PM
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That's one way, right there, that the discrepancy in $$$ will hurt us sooner, rather than later. we're in good shape with facilities for now, but we won't be able to pour money into new facilities moving forward like the $EC schools will.
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Hall of Famer [21652]
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He was paid that before the TV deal. Alabama was not a power
May 17, 2012, 3:02 PM
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house until they went for the big coach.
Alabama is one team of 12 (now 14) in the SEC.
We have out-recruited most SEC schools over the last 5 years. So... the money gap has yet to figure into the equation which is my point. I'm not arguing about the future. I even said in my post that it would hurt us down the road.
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Legend [18135]
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Hasn't the SEC been out-earning the ACC for several years
May 17, 2012, 3:04 PM
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already? Attendance alone has not made 'Bama richer than us.
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Legend [16230]
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Correct...***
May 17, 2012, 3:06 PM
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Hall of Famer [21652]
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Yes, which speaks to my point in the original post.
May 17, 2012, 3:08 PM
[ in reply to Hasn't the SEC been out-earning the ACC for several years ] |
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1. SEC teams earn more money than us each year.
2. Money itself doesn't help college football teams, it is spent on certain things.
3. the things that are bought with money are coaches and facilities (for talent)
4. Despite Clemson not being in the SEC, Clemson spends MORE on coaching than most SEC teams and has better talent than half of them.
5. My point is, the reason Clemson has struggled lately has nothing to do with our conference, because our conference can't coach for us. We have the most expensive coaching staff we are capable of having regardless of conference. We have superior talent. Yet we are not a powerhouse.
6. Conclusion, Money and conference affiliation is NOT the reason Clemson is in its current situation. and the ACC can save itself by winning games now.
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Legend [16230]
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Other than the two most important things?***
May 17, 2012, 2:52 PM
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Addict [413]
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Re: Other than paying for coaching and facilities to attract
May 17, 2012, 3:12 PM
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The problem is that you are thinking only in coaching, the answer is in your own question. What facilities do you think we could build with 20 MILLION dollars extra every year. Are you kidding me? How do you not see this as an advantage? Yes, we are managing to build an indoor practice facility now, but with the money we would have made in another conference it could have been done YEARS ago. Also, it is not only in terms of football, the extra 20 mil a year can go to other non-revenue sports. Also having more money for flying coaches around for a more national recruiting approach cannot hurt in the least bit. So since you have had some smart ### comment to everyone elses attempts to try and convince you that 20 million dollars a year is better (come on seriously how do you not get this?)
More possibilities for facilities and facility upgrades, yes we are doing them but they could be done faster and debt free. e.g. WEZ, IPF, Video boards, sound upgrades for Death Valley.....
Recruiting budget, flying coaches around and official visits are not cheap, and no I am not saying we need more money to recruit dirty, I am saying that more money will allow for more recruiting opportunities and ultimately successes.
Coaching - yes, we have been able to get some of the highest paid coordinators in the country, what you are neglecting to show is what that money could have been used for otherwise. Paying chad 1.3 and brent 800k is ultimately the right thing to do because it comes down to coaching and talent. But wouldn't it have been nice to have 20 MILLION DOLLARS more to not have to sweat those contracts as much and willingly give it to them without having to sacrifice other areas of interest.
In conclusion, I NEVER thought I would see a comment wondering why it would be nice to have 20 extra million dollars. Unbelievable
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Hall of Famer [21652]
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You missed the point entirely. Read it slower next time.***
May 17, 2012, 3:13 PM
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Addict [413]
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Re: You missed the point entirely. Read it slower next time.***
May 17, 2012, 3:16 PM
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You are trying to say that "money doesn't matter" and that winning is what is lacking in the ACC. Trying to say money does matter, for the reasons that you have said, talent, and coaching and facilities. I too believe that winning is the answer to our problems in the ACC, but winning only gets more and more difficult with less and less money to use, especially since the gap is going to widen.
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Hall of Famer [21652]
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Um... no I'm not trying to say that "money doesn't matter"
May 17, 2012, 3:19 PM
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I'm saying that money cannot be blamed on our current situation. It was a response to those who blame the ACC affiliation for our mediocre recent past.
Money does obviously matter and if you read my post, you would have seen I already said that.
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