Re: Traitors

The EU, USA, and NATO had a full 6 months to easily negotiate peace between Ukraine and Russia that would have resulted in more loss of territory to Ukraine than where the battle lines had been from Jan. 2023 through Dec. 2023.

Ukraine would have remained an independent country with the large majority of its pre-2022 territory. Ukraine would have also had at least some decent piece of their male / 20 - 35 year old demographic remaining from which Ukraine could start the recovery.

But the US Congress was greedy and didn’t then … and still doesn’t … give a rip about Ukraine other than as a corrupt country that is ‘open for business’ for our elected officials and selected bureaucrats to enrich themselves by being ‘partners’ in Ukraine’s industries, giving Ukraine old US weapons so that America’s defense industry has to make new weapons (at taxpayer expense or via inflationary spending) to enrich our defense contractors (and thus allow congress to hit the investment lottery via insider trading). Almost forgot … for America’s dumbest politicians, they simply use family members and family friends to blackmail Ukraine or solicit bribes from Ukraine via simple shell companies in exchange for US taxpayer paid ‘nation building’ disbursements.

The whole narrative that ‘Ukraine will be taken over by Putin’ is a specious trope that has been repeated endlessly by the Uniparty’s MSM propaganda apparatus. Much of America’s citizenry fails to recognize that the MSM is BS’ing them on behalf of Congress and the WH; thus, these duped citizens become Ukraine flag waving useful idiots.

Those flag wavers who know the truth, but will never admit it, are waving those flags anyways in hopes that the OBiden Handlers Admin will get their first foreign policy ‘success’ by prolonging the war until after the 2024 election.

My heavens. So much of America is populated by idiots. At least they are easy to identify. They waive Ukraine flags.

RememberTheDanny

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Re: Ah yes,

Apr 21, 2024, 3:55 PM

History provides examples of how this works.

Note: Wars of ‘total victory’ or ‘absolute surrender’ are very scarce in world history. WW II is the only major conflict more in recent history when ‘total victory’ had been achieved.

Franco-Prussian War of 1870. Prussia (the country which unified various other Germanic regions into what formally became Germany) won the war, yet France remained as an independent world power. France ceded the territories of Alsace and Lorraine to Germany. France was mad about ceding Alsace Lorraine, but that was the price for peace. France survived and thrived. BTW, France had zero shot at ‘winning back’ Alsace Lorraine had they kept fighting. Pre-Germany Prussia did not have the power or will to both conquer -&- to permanently occupy France. But, had the fighting gone beyond 1871, then France would have ended up ceding much more territory than just Alsace Lorraine. (*). More fighting would have been worse for France than just losing Alsace Lorraine. France was smart enough … and independent enough … to make peace because that was the best outcome for France.

WW I. France (with mucho help from their allies) beat Germany. Germany ceded Alsace Lorraine back to France. The Allies forced Germany to cede a major hunk of the eastern part of Germany to become part of the newly formed country of Poland. Germany survived and thrived. Had Germany kept fighting, they would have lost more territory instead of winning back that which they ended up losing in the negotiated peace. (*). Germany was smart enough … and independent enough … to make peace because that was the best outcome for Germany.

First Iraq war when the USA won, Saddam Hussein was run out of Kuwait, but Iraq remained independent. Notice that Saddam Hussein didn’t attempt any more conquests.

Second Iraq war. The US goes after Iraq, kills S.Hussein and ‘wins’ the war. Total victory, right? All of Iraq was conquered, that means we won, right? Uhhhh, no. We coukdn't 'wun' the iccupation. Iran won that.

(*). The moral of this story? Most of the times, it is better to lose something (Ukraine) in a limited war … and better to win (Russia) something tangible in a limited war … than it is to lose everything in an 'existential' war (as, in effect, the USA did via 'total vuctory' in Iraq.

Here we return to Ukraine. Ukraine, when (not “if,” but “when”) the inevitable peace with Russia arrives, along with the territory that Ukraine has already lost in the war to Russia, then Ukraine will thrive again. If Ukraine’s was truly an independent nation as opposed to the proxy war state of USA dominated NATO, then Ukraine would have gladly ceded the part of Donbas region that they had already lost as opposed to keep on fighting until their blood ran out. If Ukraine’s blood runs out, then they will simply become a permanent vassal state of the USA dominated NATO. An independent Ukraine, on the other hand, would be grateful that NATO (I.e. American) military aid had allowed them to reach av(temporary) stalemate with Russia, and would recognize that it would still be an independent country with enough remaining valuable territory to continue to thrive.

History illiterate Americans deceive themselves with the WW II era ‘pump America up’ narrative that the good guys always win as long as they don’t give up. When the time comes that the US government sees it in the government’s best interests to promote a war or to keep a war going, out pops the ‘America will bring victory and peace’ to the victim’s of dictator (insert S.Hussein / Taliban / Putin / Ho Chi Min / etc) aggression. Americans, it is your patriotic duty to ‘save’ these victim countries and keep forking over taxpayer money to do it. That is, until being in a cannot-win-war becomes too embarrassing for the govt, at which time the ‘let’s go war’ loudspeakers go silent.

it is past due for Americans to shake themselves out of the faux patriotic / faux moralistic fantasy that only a binary outcome is on the table for a moral conclysiin to the Ukraine / Russia war. This steady diet of government propaganda is not good for America's .., or Ukraine's … health.

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Traitors

Re: Traitors

Re: Traitors

Re: Traitors

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Re: Traitors

Why not try debating the points instead of petty attacks.***

Re: Why not try debating the points instead of petty attacks.***

You're blind to the MIC/Intel lobbyists and their lust for war profiteering.***

Re: You're blind to the MIC/Intel lobbyists and their lust for war profiteering.***

Name my 'conspiracies'... Back up your statement.***

I guess my favorite is that "someone" is in charge of the government

"often wrong, never in doubt"***

For the record, the poster you are defending called those who disagree, idiots***

In his case, he articulated his points first... (and he was right).***

Re: Why not try debating the points instead of petty attacks.***

Ah yes,

Re: Ah yes,

Re: Traitors

Re: Traitors

No, the idiots are the Red Hats....

A traitor to what?***

Re: A traitor to what?***

So you guys now support states that secede?***

Re: So you guys now support states that secede?***

Ukraine won their independence.

Who did they fight?***

Bolsheviks mostly.***

Y'all sure do invent some pretty stupid nuggets of "logic"

lol the takes you come up with are so dumb***

Oh please....

Why did Brandon block Poland from giving MIGs to Ukraine?

Liar. You wouldnt support Ukraine regardless***

Why did he block them? Is winning not the goal? ### are we doing then???***

Even if he'd approved the MIG's, you still wouldn't support it....

ANSWER THE QUESTION.***

Quit lying, you little fasci. You know #### well you'd never support Ukraine...***

Re: Quit lying, you little fasci. You know #### well you'd never support Ukraine...***

Reading comprehension isn't your friend...

Re: Reading comprehension isn't your friend...

First....

Re: Traitors

Good Photoshop of the Crime Shop.***

Re: Traitors

~$9B for Israeli "defense" and ~$9B for Gaza relief. Minus $18B from US taxpayer

Re: Traitors

Real question...In your mind is it at all possible that...

So that's why Billary sold Russia the uranium...? Or is that why much of the EU

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