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All-In [25097]
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Was the 1998 team really that bad?
Oct 30, 2023, 10:57 AM
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I was a tad too young to really recall that seasons. (99 or 00 the first season I remember.)
But looking over the schedule of those 8 losses only 2 were blowouts. The others were..
18-20 @ Virginia
19-29 to Wake
14-21 @ UNC
23-28 @ Duke
39-46 to NC State
21-24 to Georgia Tech
That looks like just a few plays away to me!
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Tiger Cub [10]
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Re: Was the 1998 team really that bad?
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Oct 30, 2023, 11:01 AM
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I was a student at Clemson in 98. This team reminds me of that team with the close losses.
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CU Guru [1550]
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Re: Was the 1998 team really that bad?
Oct 30, 2023, 11:05 AM
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I mean... there's losses to Duke (finished 4-7 that year) and Wake (finished 3-8 that year) in there. What more can be said?
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Orange Blooded [2340]
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Re: Was the 1998 team really that bad?
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Oct 30, 2023, 11:11 AM
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You folks remember 1998 but forget what we did in 1997. That made the 1998 team bearable. And all of you muscle heads that want to get rid of Dabo can explain who you are going to get to replace him.
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110%er [6070]
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Re: Was the 1998 team really that bad?
Oct 30, 2023, 11:07 AM
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That was a helluva season for the Tigers. No breaks that year...some might say we were "6 plays away"
but reality is the team could not finish a game, much like 2023.
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110%er [5650]
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Re: Was the 1998 team really that bad?
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Oct 30, 2023, 11:14 AM
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There were some good players on that team. Much like this team, the talent was on the defensive side of the ball. I would argue that this year's team is more talented except on the OL.
Rahim Abdullah LB
Keith Adams LB
Michael Allen CB
Alex Ardley CB
Javis Austin RB
Chad Carson LB
Gary Childress DL
OJ Childress LB
Antwan Edwards CB
Robert Carswell S
Rod Gardner WR
DeMarco Fox S
Chris Jones LB
Charles Hafley S
Damonte MCkenzie DL
Eric Meekins S
Will Merrit OG
Brandon Rouse LB
Akil Amith DL
Brian Wofford WR
Kyle Young C
Travis Zachary RB
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Orange Blooded [2976]
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Re: Was the 1998 team really that bad?
Oct 30, 2023, 1:23 PM
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Was thinking Emmitt Smith little brother was on that team. Must been 97 when Emory left.
I went to school with Eric Meekins and his brother Donnie. Eric was a beast at RB in HS.
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All-TigerNet [10991]
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Re: Was the 1998 team really that bad?
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Oct 30, 2023, 11:15 AM
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I believe West was told he would not be coming back the next year the week before the SCAR game which was his last. So we would have been 2-8 at that point. Tommy Bowden was the trendy hottest candidate with his undefeated Tulane team.
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110%er [5650]
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Re: Was the 1998 team really that bad?
Oct 30, 2023, 11:26 AM
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Yep. TB was a hot commodity and has the Bowden name. Remember Danny Ford took out a full page add to apologize to Clemson Administration in hopes of getting another shot.
Although TB never got us over the hump so to speak he did make us somewhat relevant again and brought in Dabo. Spent some time with TB at the high school coaching clinics.
Got to know him in 2006 at the spring clinic. All of our coaching staff had to cancel last minute due to an event at school but I was allowed to go.
Was eating by myself at the table during lunch break while all the others staffs were eating together. TB brought his trey and came and sat down with me. Couldn't have been any nicer. Sat with me and ate for an hour.
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All-In [44120]
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If I recall, Danny offered to coach the team for free.***
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Oct 30, 2023, 11:28 AM
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Legend [16948]
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Re: Was the 1998 team really that bad?
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Oct 30, 2023, 11:41 AM
[ in reply to Re: Was the 1998 team really that bad? ] |
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Tommy peaked in year 2. And what should have been the giant red flag is that we got worse and worse over the back half of the season. We lost 3 out 4 to close after looking like a juggernaut for the first half of the season. The term “Clemsoning” was born under Bowden. We were only as “relevant” under Bowden as every middle third ACC team from 1999-2008 - which isn’t at all relevant.
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110%er [5650]
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Re: Was the 1998 team really that bad?
Oct 30, 2023, 11:48 AM
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In terms of performance I agree. It was past time for TB to go.
However, the whole Bowden Bowl alone got us back in the national spot light.
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All-TigerNet [13053]
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We also barely played anyone with a pulse during that 8-0 start
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Oct 30, 2023, 12:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: Was the 1998 team really that bad? ] |
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The lost to the three best teams we played that year.
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Legend [16948]
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Re: We also barely played anyone with a pulse during that 8-0 start
Oct 30, 2023, 1:51 PM
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It wasn’t just that we lost. The team was playing sloppier as the season went on. GT shouldn’t have beaten us. Then FSU absolutely demoralized us. I think enough time has passed we can’t admit we only beat a mediocre USC team because of Gardner’s push off. And the score is not nearly reflective of just how bad Virginia Tech pummeled our ##### in the trenches. If this team had a junior Woody Dantzler, and that was the only difference, I think we’d be undefeated - seriously.
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All-TigerNet [10991]
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Re: Was the 1998 team really that bad?
Oct 30, 2023, 1:05 PM
[ in reply to Re: Was the 1998 team really that bad? ] |
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I guess similar to BV leaving Dabo - Bowden's Oh Chit moment was Rich Rod leaving for WVU.
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All-In [25097]
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Crazy how good RichRod was at West Virginia
Oct 30, 2023, 1:09 PM
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For that 2000s period
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Legend [16948]
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Re: Was the 1998 team really that bad?
Oct 30, 2023, 2:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: Was the 1998 team really that bad? ] |
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The shelf life on novelty offensive systems wears off pretty fast. We maintained a high level for a long time. I think one of Dabo’s biggest mistakes was being reactionary and grabbing the big name last year rather than finding the guy best fit to make a change with the pieces on hand. Chad Morris nor Brent Venables were the big name when they were hired. Chad had our offense humming but was putting too much stress on our defense and Kevin Steele had no idea how to adapt. Venables system was designed to get his players off the field with a high risk reward style of play. Dabo’s gamble was that such a system - against less dynamic ACC offenses - would be impactful. He was right and doesn’t get nearly enough credit for the move. Everyone just gives all the credit to BV and pretends he was an obvious choice at the time. I wish Dabo and Neff would have sat down and truly figured out what would have been best for Clemson, not just get the big name that everyone wanted.
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110%er [7123]
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Bowdens teams had talent but generally
Oct 30, 2023, 2:03 PM
[ in reply to Re: Was the 1998 team really that bad? ] |
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were soft. They took on his persona as a coach. That fat lop of chit coach at Maryland figured it out and called him out on it publicly. That’s where the “Clemsoning” stuff came from. He was a mistake from day 1.
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Oculus Spirit [81313]
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Yep, then he beat the coots and there was a photo of him bawling on the
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Oct 30, 2023, 11:30 AM
[ in reply to Re: Was the 1998 team really that bad? ] |
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field in the postgame interview and it was on the front page of the Greenville News.
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All-In [44120]
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Yes, they were really that bad.***
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Oct 30, 2023, 11:27 AM
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Oculus Spirit [81313]
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Absolutely, it was brutal. Worst season that I can remember.***
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Oct 30, 2023, 11:28 AM
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All-In [25097]
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When was it known that West would be gone?***
Oct 30, 2023, 12:52 PM
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CU Guru [1536]
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Zachery and Wyatt would have started at almost any school..
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Oct 30, 2023, 12:13 PM
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they were clear 4 star players. But I remember Clemson was small on the OL. D played hard, but they were slow and small (see Alex Ardely). TB brought a good energy to the program for the first few years.
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110%er [7542]
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I think that UVA game was the one with the BS call on Antwan Edwards. If that's
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Oct 30, 2023, 1:10 PM
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the case, we were 4-7 in my book
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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I remember that too well for my own mental health.
Oct 30, 2023, 1:27 PM
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ugh. bad memories.
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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That team played solid defense and abysmal offense
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Oct 30, 2023, 1:26 PM
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with plenty of turnovers, bad luck, and inability to complete a win when it was possible.
And as often happens, once a team starts losing they keep losing because they no longer have any belief or confidence.
This year is more like 2010, but still similar to '98.
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Standout [336]
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Re: Was the 1998 team really that bad?
Oct 30, 2023, 1:27 PM
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2-8 prior to the SC game
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All-Conference [403]
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Re: Was the 1998 team really that bad?
Oct 30, 2023, 3:14 PM
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Yes. They were by far the worst Clemson football team of my life. I was pretty young myself (9 years old) that season, but I remember them being truly atrocious. The Tommy West years were GRIM. His '95 and '97 teams were solidly above average, but the '98 team is where the bottom absolutely fell out.
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