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110%er [6161]
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What's the worst that happens if we move on from Brownell?
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Feb 13, 2023, 11:36 AM
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We don't improve and are in the middle of the ACC or get worse and are at the to backend of the ACC (have we really been far from that most seasons anyway). IMO, it'd be better to shoot for the moon and fail, then continue to get in low orbit but can't get passed it.
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All-TigerNet [14424]
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Re: What's the worst that happens if we move on from Brownell?
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Feb 13, 2023, 11:38 AM
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PJ HALL LEAVES, NO DOUBT.
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110%er [6161]
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Re: What's the worst that happens if we move on from Brownell?
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Feb 13, 2023, 11:42 AM
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He has 1 year left? We haven't accomplished much with him yet. Maybe we go a run late this season, but we're looking NIT bound. Not sure that not getting the right coach here is worth one season of a player that isn't going to take us very far anyway.
Message was edited by: RC Tiger®
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All-TigerNet [14424]
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Re: What's the worst that happens if we move on from Brownell?
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Feb 13, 2023, 12:27 PM
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User Logo
RC Tiger®
Orange Blooded [4302]
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Re: What's the worst that happens if we move on from Brownell? 1
Feb 13, 2023, 11:42 AM
Reply
He has 1 year left? We haven't accomplished much with him yet. Maybe we go a run late this season, but we're looking NIT bound. Not sure that not getting the right coach here is worth one season of a player that isn't going to take us very far anyway.
GUESS YOU MISSED THAT PART THAT HE HAS HAD 2 SERIOUS INJURIES AND IS YET 100%. BUT HEY IT GIVES YOU GOOBERS MORE AMMO TO BASH COACH BROWNELL. SO HAVE FUN.
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CU Guru [1487]
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Has he had injured players the other 12 years too?
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Feb 13, 2023, 2:50 PM
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Are we the only team in America to have injuries?
Brad has supplied his own ammo, GOOBER.
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Orange Blooded [2448]
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Legend [17984]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Agreed
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Feb 13, 2023, 1:59 PM
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CU Guru [1487]
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No doubt?
Feb 13, 2023, 2:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: What's the worst that happens if we move on from Brownell? ] |
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According to you?
Even if true, you don't keep a failing coach because of fear someone might transfer.
PJ deserves better than to sit at home his entire career, watching other teams in the NCAA tournament.
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All-In [31460]
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110%er [5194]
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Re: We Will Be Back To Irrelevancy....... ---
Feb 13, 2023, 11:40 AM
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..... secondary lower deck of the bottom of the inner barrel.
Its dark down there 😱😱
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All-In [27444]
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Re: What's the worst that happens if we move on from Brownell?
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Feb 13, 2023, 11:45 AM
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If Brownell left. Clemson would hire what would be perceived as an upgrade. The chances of the program regressing would be extremely low.
Of course anything could happen but a change in HC would add value in other places as well such as new energy and ticket sales.
From a business standpoint the pros of making a change far outweigh the cons. And the risk reward factor is so low.
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CU Medallion [64736]
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I'd say it depends who they hire to replace CBB.***
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Feb 13, 2023, 11:48 AM
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CU Medallion [58737]
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That's the unquestionable choice: Clemson basketball has
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Feb 13, 2023, 11:52 AM
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a lengthy record under Brownell; it is what it is, nothing more, nothing less. The ONLY question is, and has been, do we want more of the same, or do we expect things to magically change for the better, after more than a decade of the same?
It's pretty simple.
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110%er [8179]
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Re: That's the unquestionable choice: Clemson basketball has
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Feb 13, 2023, 12:09 PM
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a lengthy record under Brownell; it is what it is, nothing more, nothing less. The ONLY question is, and has been, do we want more of the same, or do we expect things to magically change for the better, after more than a decade of the same?
It's pretty simple.
things hardly ever magically change. this is true about CBB and is also true about Clemson basketball history. throughout our history we have done little for the program except cycle through coaches. a coach is hired and does poorly and is replaced. a coach is hired and does well leveraging this success to move to a better program. so there is never any stability reflected in the boom and bust cycles we have seen. Regardless of who might be the HC next year perhaps the other drivers should be addressed else we will get what we have always got as you stated.
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CU Medallion [58737]
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It may very well be that Brownell has done as good as
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Feb 13, 2023, 12:36 PM
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anybody could do at Clemson over that time period, given the history and limitations of the program. For the sake of argument, let's assume that's true. I still think we need a new coach. We need to commit to the basketball program with adequate $$$ and facilities, and we desperately need a new face for the program, to convince fans and recruits alike that things are different with Clemson basketball, that mediocrity is no longer acceptable, and that competing for the conference championship and being a regular in the NCAA tournament are realistic expectations.
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CU Guru [1487]
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Orange Blooded [4610]
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Re: That's the unquestionable choice: Clemson basketball has
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Feb 13, 2023, 1:58 PM
[ in reply to That's the unquestionable choice: Clemson basketball has ] |
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If Neff and the University and fans are happy with the somewhat better than .500 basketball under Brownell, may as well keep Brownell. He seems to have run a decent program without a lot of drama and few off-court issues and seems to mostly graduate players (those who stay). He's probably overpaid if that's the outcome.
As a fan and supporter who want to win every game (and I root for the team and CBB to win every game, I've never even thought anything like "I hope we lose so we can fire CBB"). So I'd always wonder if someone else could do better. And I want to see if someone can do better.
But if Neff and the University decides to keep CBB, I'll probably grumble quite a bit and be back supporting them all next year during every game, and wondering why we expected anything different.
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110%er [7145]
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Ok, but if that’s the case…
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Feb 13, 2023, 4:24 PM
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we should reduce CBB’s salary to $100,000 a year. Use the money taken from him to pay for what we really care about - football. Hire a top-tier DC to go with the upgrade at OC. Get us back competitive with bama, uga and the bucknuts in signing blue chip players and winning national championships.
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All-TigerNet [13732]
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Re: What's the worst that happens if we move on from Brownell?
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Feb 13, 2023, 11:53 AM
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I want to see how the rest of the season plays out before establishing a hard opinion. At its core, this is probably the second-best team Brad has had in his 13 years. I do think firing him now risks several guys leaving and breaking up this core.
However, I think we are at a juncture where if we really found a special coach that would come in and put everything he has into producing a consistent winner then I think we'd probably move on but I don't want us to just bring in another coach that isn't special.
I could live with Brad for one more year as long as we don't extend him until after next season and only if he produces a Big Dance appearance and a strong ACC Tournament next season.
Having said this, if we could be assured we bring in a coach that the guys will want to hang around and play for then I'd be inclined to pull the trigger now and move on. Maybe we finish strong and all of this becomes moot but I am concerned we've lost the momentum we need to do that.
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Orange Blooded [3620]
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Re: What's the worst that happens if we move on from Brownell?
Feb 13, 2023, 9:33 PM
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This.
This season has been a series of runs—a typical slow start Q4 loss at So Kar because our freshmen contributed almost nothing, followed by good freshmen development and surprising offense in our pre-conference schedule (except when Loyola played their game of the year). Then we took advantage of the beneficial ACC schedule during the first half.
But we have now hit a plateau, and we’ve lost our consistency just when we’re playing mostly upper tier conference foes. The deeper, more athletic teams in the league are coming together and rising to the top of the standings, and we have yet to prove we belong with them. We may have peaked early, such as it was.
It seems like Coach B has gotten significant help from the assistants this year. I’d like to have a chance for that to continue and wonder what might have been if he’d made those changes before.
At the very least, we have a good chance of being a Top 4 seed for the ACC tourney. Not sure if it’s likely we could be playing our way into the Dance any more.
Seems like the best teams have coaches that trust their players. Coach B seems to have difficulty with that at times, but since we are rarely the most athletic team on the floor, we all expect the coach to do all he can to make up the difference.
One thing is sure: when a team plays 4 guards against us, we’re in trouble no matter how good they are.
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Hall of Famer [21648]
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That would be the team getting worse.
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Feb 13, 2023, 12:02 PM
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In other words, reverting to the mean.
16.6% of every year-end top-25 ranking in the history of our program happened under Brown L.
23% of every NCAA tournament appearance in the history of our program has happened under Brown L.
Brown L has been our coach for 11.6% of our program's history.
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Orange Blooded [2287]
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Re: That would be the team getting worse.
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Feb 13, 2023, 12:30 PM
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Two slight problems with your calculations:
1. The AP has only been ranking basketball teams for the last 72 years, making Brownell our coach for around 18% of this time. He has performed at best average in this comparison.
2. The NCAA tournament expanded to 64 teams in 1985, making it only 38 years we can use to make an accurate comparison of tournament appearances. So, Brownell has been the coach for 34% of the time that there has been an expanded tournament. Clemson made the tournament 9 out 25 years of the expanded tournament prior to Brownell (or 36% of the time), while only 25% of the time so far with Brownell.
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Hall of Famer [21648]
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Good response***
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Feb 13, 2023, 12:36 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81703]
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I'd love to find out.***
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Feb 13, 2023, 12:27 PM
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Orange Blooded [2974]
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Re: I'd love to find out.***
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Feb 13, 2023, 12:41 PM
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How many of the young players would transfer? Godfrey, Wiggins, D. Hunter? The new coach may need to start from scratch from the portal. Thus, that coach better have good D1 recruiting skills or it’s a multi year rebuild. C. Hunter and Hall might move on as well (assuming Hall doesn’t decide to test the draft waters).
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Oculus Spirit [81703]
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Truthfully, I bet we would lose a few players but I wouldn't
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Feb 13, 2023, 12:45 PM
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let that fear prevent us from bringing in a new coach. We know what we have at this point after 13 years. I'd like to have someone new breathe some fresh air back into the program.
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CU Guru [1159]
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Re: I'd love to find out.***
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Feb 13, 2023, 2:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: I'd love to find out.*** ] |
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Love the way PJ plays but he is not testing any draft waters. He is not an NBA player.
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Orange Blooded [3255]
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Re: I'd love to find out.***
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Feb 13, 2023, 2:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: I'd love to find out.*** ] |
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Hall isn't an NBA quality player. He might be successful in Europe but not in the NBA.
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110%er [5544]
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Re: What's the worst that happens if we move on from Brownell?
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Feb 13, 2023, 12:42 PM
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The worst that could happen is good.
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110%er [5515]
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Re: What's the worst that happens if we move on from Brownell?
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Feb 13, 2023, 12:57 PM
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Honestly don’t believe it could be any worse than it has been over his time here. Most likely it would be an improvement.
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110%er [8637]
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Re: What's the worst that happens if we move on from Brownell?
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Feb 13, 2023, 1:49 PM
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The worst would be to hire a low mid major coach (College of Charleston or Furman for example) who is not a National name. The head coach job at Clemson is a really tough job but if we move on, we need to write a big enough check to get a big name that recruits know.
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CU Guru [1487]
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Brad makes the 38th biggest salary in America, all
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Feb 13, 2023, 2:56 PM
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while finishing in the top 40 twice in his entire career.
He's overpaid. He makes a lot more than dozens of other coaches making less than him with less to offer from a school standpoint.
We could pay someone else the 38th biggest salary and achieve so much more. Doesn't need to be a "name" to help recruiting. Recruiting ability and coaching will take care of that.
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All-TigerNet [13477]
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Re: What's the worst that happens if we move on from Brownell?
Feb 13, 2023, 2:27 PM
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We could end up with a coach like usuc did.
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All-In [31460]
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Re: What's the worst that happens if we move on from Brownell?
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Feb 13, 2023, 4:58 PM
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And they beat us. 🤬🤬🤬
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110%er [6109]
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let the season finish, but if we don't make NCAA this year
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Feb 13, 2023, 2:41 PM
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he should be gone.
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110%er [7145]
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The worst thing that happens?
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Feb 13, 2023, 4:16 PM
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We have an actual shot at having a basketball program with the potential of competing for quality recruits… like that MBB powerhouse Alabama has done in recent years.
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Associate AD [828]
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Let's see how the season plays out...
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Feb 13, 2023, 4:36 PM
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What gives me pause is when I see a program like Texas Tech, which hardly had a better history than Clemson (despite having a run with Bobby Knight), they hired the right guy (Chris Beard - I get that he turned out to be a bad guy) but he got them to the NCAA finals in his third year. Freakin' Butler made two straight finals when they were in a minor conference, because they had the right coach.
Basketball shouldn't take forever to turn around.
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All-In [31460]
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Re: What's the worst that happens if we move on from Brownell?
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Feb 13, 2023, 4:40 PM
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JK and Mountaineer would need a defibrillator.
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110%er [5989]
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We could promote D!ck Bender
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Feb 13, 2023, 4:46 PM
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Don't know anything about him as a coach, so nothing against him, but I bet he would become a rather popular coach. It would be interesting to see how many announcers would shy away from saying D!ck Bender on air.
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All-In [31460]
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Re: We could promote D!ck Bender
Feb 13, 2023, 4:48 PM
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I know I would! His mom must have hated him. Can’t imagine going to school with that name.
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Hall of Famer [22389]
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nuttin honey... same old same old, with or without him.
Feb 13, 2023, 5:18 PM
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110%er [5712]
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Re: What's the worst that happens if we move on from Brownell?
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Feb 13, 2023, 9:43 PM
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We could rehire Larry Shyatt.
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Legend [17847]
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Excitement, attendance, and basketball pulse return ...***
Feb 13, 2023, 10:27 PM
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Orange Blooded [2873]
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Everybody Transfers
Feb 14, 2023, 8:20 AM
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We start from ground zero with an unheard of coach (who will leave after having one successful season) and we wander around in the college basketball wilderness for another 40 years.
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Orange Blooded [2287]
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Re: Everybody Transfers
Feb 14, 2023, 9:50 AM
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This seems to further emphasize how badly we have to start looking for a Caleb or Joshua immediately. Somebody can lead the basketball program out of this wilderness we have grown too accustomed to!
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Oculus Spirit [94324]
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Judge Keller won't stop ranting about how good we....
Feb 14, 2023, 11:17 AM
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had it before BB got fired. That will be the worst that could happen.
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Orange Blooded [3978]
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Re: What's the worst that happens if we move on from Brownell?
Feb 14, 2023, 11:18 AM
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Bingo! He gets it.
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Head Coach [762]
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Re: What's the worst that happens if we move on from Brownell?
Feb 14, 2023, 11:19 AM
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We are paying CBB $229K a month. If Neff is going to fire him look for it to happen before 5/1 when CBB's buyout goes up $720K. If Neff does make the change we still owe CBB $2.34M.
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CU Guru [1156]
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Re: What's the worst that happens if we move on from Brownell?
Feb 14, 2023, 11:24 AM
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We would be less than mediocre.
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