|
Replies: 63
| visibility 1
|
Orange Blooded [4020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4312
Joined: 10/6/03
|
I’m ok with enforcing the laws and the indictment
4
Jun 9, 2023, 5:27 PM
|
|
I just ask that the laws be enforced blindly and with out bias
They found a bunch of classified documents in Biden’s garage next to the old mustang - no one is disputing that, right?
I’ll hold my breath while they work on that indictment
This double standard is a complete freaking joke
|
|
|
|
 |
Orange Blooded [3017]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3181
Joined: 2/3/23
|
Re: I’m ok with enforcing the laws and the indictment
2
Jun 9, 2023, 5:47 PM
|
|
You’re asking for equal justice that the FBI, and DOJ is not going to allow.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7210]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9446
Joined: 12/18/13
|
Re: I’m ok with enforcing the laws and the indictment
1
Jun 9, 2023, 6:18 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2053]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 2989
Joined: 11/29/22
|
Re: I’m ok with enforcing the laws and the indictment
Jun 9, 2023, 6:02 PM
|
|
Do you really not know the difference?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4312
Joined: 10/6/03
|
Re: I’m ok with enforcing the laws and the indictment
2
Jun 9, 2023, 6:53 PM
|
|
No, tell me
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2053]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 2989
Joined: 11/29/22
|
Re: I’m ok with enforcing the laws and the indictment
2
Jun 9, 2023, 9:58 PM
|
|
Well... Biden immediately gave them back when asked.
Guess who didn't? Guess who also ignored a subpoena? And guess who also showed said classified documents to people who don't have clearance to?
Trump was given the same opportunity to return them without any fanfare. Nobody had to know.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24815]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42569
Joined: 7/31/10
|
"Guess who didn't?"... Hillary. She destroyed the evidence.***
1
Jun 9, 2023, 10:12 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111721]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73799
Joined: 9/10/03
|
Re: "Guess who didn't?"... Hillary. She destroyed the evidence.***
Jun 9, 2023, 10:27 PM
|
|
I bet some of the emails involved the Clintons' involvement in orchestrating 9/11, but now we will never know because they are gone.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24815]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42569
Joined: 7/31/10
|
Doubt it... but I'm sure she profited like the rest of the
1
Jun 9, 2023, 10:31 PM
|
|
TREASONOUS CROOKS!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4312
Joined: 10/6/03
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7159]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 9717
Joined: 10/6/21
|
Re: Excuses….
1
Jun 10, 2023, 12:24 AM
|
|
Trump’s ‘refusal’ to hand over the documents was actually part of legal negotiations with the FBI.
From what I can gather, one aspect of Trump’s legal team argument was “The president, however, has “the ultimate classification and declassification authority,” says Pfeiffer. The president is the only person with access to all levels of classified documents, and who can unilaterally decide if a document should be labeled “Top Secret” or made public.”
(Quote taken from History magazine, Feb. 6, 2023 article “ Top Secret, Secret, Confidential: How Are US Government Documents Classified?”)
Until such time that there is a legal decision that, indeed, the presidential documents must be turned over to FBI, then there is a legal justification for not simply turning over documents. I also suspect that document turnover rulings can be appealed by the party that loses.
It’s not just as simple that Trump didn’t turn over the documents when the FBI and DoJ told him to do so. The legality of such requests may infringe upon presidential authority to declassify any document(s). That is why such document requests are litigated before any surrender of those documents is required to take place.
BTW, Hillary was never president, yet possessed classified documents. However, our biased DoJ and FBI simply conducted a sham investigation and found Hillary to be ‘careless’ instead of criminal.
Hillary had no legal standing to possess classified documents in her home. Nada.
Trump at least has the presidential authority to declassify confidential documents on his side.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [828]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 3982
Joined: 4/14/09
|
Re: Excuses….
Jun 12, 2023, 2:30 PM
|
|
Danny, it was just Trump falsely claiming they didn't have to get them back. "Negotiations?" The FBI would willingly accepted the documents in a timely manner but got tired of screwing around and went in and got them themselves.
It's like the cops waiting for the bank robber to come out. You want it to be as peaceful and easy as possible. But, at some point, you just go in and get him.
Trump has had this false sense of "I can do anything I want and not live under the law of the land" since he was first elected. It wasn't true when he was president and is especially not true now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1198]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 1878
Joined: 6/13/99
|
Re: Excuses….
Jun 11, 2023, 9:13 PM
[ in reply to Excuses…. ] |
|
There are mountains of evidence for one but not for the other.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4312
Joined: 10/6/03
|
Re: Excuses….
1
Jun 11, 2023, 9:23 PM
|
|
Are you talking about Hunter’s laptop that the FBI spent 3 years trying to suppress instead of investing it?
If only the same effort and resources had been deployed in both instances and the evidence were lopsided, you would have a decent argument
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4021]
TigerPulse: 68%
Posts: 8048
Joined: 12/9/01
|
Re: Excuses….
Jun 12, 2023, 8:10 AM
|
|
What's the smoking gun in the laptop that's going to bring the big guy down?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [12259]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5400
Joined: 9/12/04
|
Some of you guys seem to think Biden did some kind of noble thing
3
Jun 11, 2023, 7:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: I’m ok with enforcing the laws and the indictment ] |
|
by "immediately returning" the classified documents once the FBI found them. Newsflash - that ain't being noble nor is it a justification for Biden's decades of mishandling classified documents/information and is irrelevant to his breaking the law by having them in the first place.
It has been reported that some of the Biden classified documents date back to his time as a Senator - that is at least 15 years ago. So the fact that Biden, once caught, now says "oops - my bad here ya go" provides no justification, excuse, or mitigation from prosecution for having been careless with classified documents to begin with. Besides - I'm pretty sure Joe knew those documents were sitting beside his vintage Corvette for way more than a few months while never lifting a finger to get them back to the Government. So this "Biden returned his classified documents the moment he was confronted with them" narrative is BS.
To put it into perspective... If I had classified materials from my time in the military stored in my garage and the FBI dropped by and found them - do you think they would let me off if I simply said: "Oops... here ya go - please take these classified materials back"? Not on your life as I'm quite sure my willingness to give the classified materials back would do nothing to prevent the FBI/DOJ from prosecuting me...
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7159]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 9717
Joined: 10/6/21
|
Re: Some of you guys seem to think Biden did some kind of noble thing
1
Jun 11, 2023, 7:23 PM
|
|
So committed to the Team Democrat cause are the apologist hoard of Biden supporters that they either will feign to not understand what you are saying or privately applaud that THEIR team can break the law and steal classified documents with impunity.
Despite Biden’s sordid (and unindicted) history of selling Americas’s interests for financial gain to the Biden crime family, we will not hear from a single Biden supporter any second thoughts about someone who stole classified documents which would bring big bucks from foreign governments.
Any suggestions of such about Biden will be shouted down as a nut job conspiracy theory.
Cue call …
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [828]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 3982
Joined: 4/14/09
|
Re: Some of you guys seem to think Biden did some kind of noble thing
Jun 12, 2023, 2:35 PM
|
|
I think the more reasonable people on here take the same approach to Pence's situations they do to Biden's, despite Pence being a Republican.
And I said it when this stuff started surfacing, I suspect that many, many Senators have inappropriately taken home classified docs for review and not bothered returning them. The whole thing has been a learning experience for Washington.
It doesn't change the fact that Trump was the one obstructing the FBI.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [20542]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 11689
Joined: 10/15/02
|
Re: Some of you guys seem to think Biden did some kind of noble thing
Jun 14, 2023, 5:07 AM
[ in reply to Some of you guys seem to think Biden did some kind of noble thing ] |
|
We don't really know what Joe had, though. Pence had stuff too, and I'd be surprised if a good many Senators or reps on key committees didn't have stuff floating around as well. But the government has been criticized a good bit for being ridiculously zealous about classifying certain kinds of non-essential and often mundane documents, too. There's a big difference between a merely "confidential" government document related to, say, soil erosion patterns on the coast - one NOAA guy I know told me even some of that stuff is rated "confidential", which sounds fairly ridiculous - and Top Secret stuff that can't be allowed out, ever, because it pertains to critical nuclear or military matters.
Three of the documents Hillary had, though, apparently did have classification markings...and one of them apparently was Top Secret. That should have been more than enough. At least one of Joe's documents was supposedly Top Secret as well. (Pence's tranche was apparently more innocuous, which is probably why he's already been cleared.)
Trump, though, still had fifteen boxes of the stuff when the Feds raided his resort. And he willfully defied repeated requests from the Archives, and then a Federal subpoena. (And he was waving the stuff around like door prizes at a raffle, which is an entirely different level altogether.)
So does it show an abject double-standard that our politicians are not being held to the same level of accountability as our military leaders? To me, you betcha. At the very least, anybody who did what Hillary did, for instance, which was inexcusably, dangerously, sloppy if not actually criminal, should have had their security clearance yanked on the spot...and if Hillary couldn't hold a security clearance, she'd also have had to have been fired as Secretary of State and should have never been allowed to run for president to begin with in 2016. Likewise, if there was anything remotely critical in the tranche it turned out Joe or Mike Pence were holding, the same thing should have happened to them...and it appears in Joe's case there were. (It's not clear this was the case with Pence.) And again, if you can't hold a clearance, you certainly shouldn't be allowed to hold a critical public office. As you pointed out, it'd have been a career-ender for either of us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [840]
TigerPulse: 67%
Posts: 1085
Joined: 10/19/21
|
Re: Some of you guys seem to think Biden did some kind of noble thing
Jun 14, 2023, 7:54 AM
[ in reply to Some of you guys seem to think Biden did some kind of noble thing ] |
|
They usually prosecute mishandling only if they can prove you intended to mishandle them. And that’s almost always when there is a bigger crime they may not be able to prove. Ask any AUSA.
Yes, if you happened to find an old document, turned it in, and there was no suspicion of something bigger or intentional, you would not be prosecuted. But you already know that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13160]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14157
Joined: 11/2/15
|
It was a corvette
1
Jun 9, 2023, 6:20 PM
|
|
It’s the one Hunter sits in and pretends to drive to town.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24815]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42569
Joined: 7/31/10
|
Rides his niece around and then her mother. Real POS.***
1
Jun 9, 2023, 10:13 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Rides his niece around and then her mother. Real POS.***
1
Jun 9, 2023, 10:23 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24815]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42569
Joined: 7/31/10
|
Did.***
Jun 9, 2023, 10:38 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4021]
TigerPulse: 68%
Posts: 8048
Joined: 12/9/01
|
Re: I’m ok with enforcing the laws and the indictment
1
Jun 10, 2023, 8:19 AM
|
|
These are the charges on Trump. Which one of these apply to Biden?
31 counts of willful retention of classified documents
1 count of conspiracy to obstruct justice
1 count of withholding a document or record
1 count of corruptly concealing a document or record
1 count of concealing a document in a federal investigation
1 count of scheme to conceal
and one count of making false statements and representations
https://jnslp.com/2022/12/02/willfulness-and-the-harm-of-unlawful-retention-of-national-security-information/
"Critically, not just any retention of NDI is illegal. Section 793(e) only punishes a defendant who unlawfully retains NDI “willfully.” Willful retention is not accidental, negligent, or reckless. Rather, a defendant only retains NDI willfully if he or she knows he or she possesses it and knows that such possession is prohibited due to the nature of the information. See, e.g., United States v. Hitselberger, 991 F. Supp.2d 101, 106-07 (D. D.C. 2013)."
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4312
Joined: 10/6/03
|
Re: I’m ok with enforcing the laws and the indictment
1
Jun 11, 2023, 8:00 AM
|
|
Ok, I’ll play…
Willful retention
&
Conspiracy to obstruct justice
The difference is that trump posses and existential threat to the Washington establishment of special interests and the military industrial complex
The other is the Washington establishment owned by special interests and the military industrial complex
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4021]
TigerPulse: 68%
Posts: 8048
Joined: 12/9/01
|
You don't have faith in Hur?
Jun 11, 2023, 8:06 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4312
Joined: 10/6/03
|
Re: You don't have faith in Hur?
1
Jun 11, 2023, 6:07 PM
|
|
Hur? Is that your preferred pronoun now?
Or a typo?
Never can tell with you
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4021]
TigerPulse: 68%
Posts: 8048
Joined: 12/9/01
|
Re: You don't have faith in Hur?
Jun 11, 2023, 7:16 PM
|
|
Robert Hur. You don't have much faith, do ya? LOLOLOLOL
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [34113]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33621
Joined: 9/13/99
|
Let's start with the willful retention charge.
1
Jun 11, 2023, 8:15 AM
[ in reply to Re: I’m ok with enforcing the laws and the indictment ] |
|
To prove the case, you need to show knowledge and intent.
The indictment sets forth those elements against Trump. Is there similar evidence with respect to Biden?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4021]
TigerPulse: 68%
Posts: 8048
Joined: 12/9/01
|
Re: Let's start with the willful retention charge.
Jun 11, 2023, 8:22 AM
|
|
He has no idea. He's just stomping around mad because someone is attempting to hold DADDY accountable. It's amazing how outraged these clowns were about Hillary a few years ago, yet they so badly want DADDY to slide on this. The party of "law and order" is a joke. The melts from MAGAts never get old.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4312
Joined: 10/6/03
|
Re: Let's start with the willful retention charge.
Jun 14, 2023, 11:28 AM
|
|
No, I just don’t like 2 standards of justice that are blatantly applied
You Hillary you have intent and willful destruction of evidence.
It’s getting to be like Russia where Putin jails his opponents and let’s his friends get away with murder.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7159]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 9717
Joined: 10/6/21
|
Re: Let's start with the willful retention charge.
Jun 11, 2023, 10:02 AM
[ in reply to Let's start with the willful retention charge. ] |
|
Biden is a sitting president and cannot be indicted.
Impeachment has become nearly meaningless ever since Clinton was impeached and the Senate did not vote to have him removed.
We won’t know about details of Biden’s retention charge details until after Biden is out of office and a new AG replaces M.Garland starting 2025.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [34113]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33621
Joined: 9/13/99
|
Re: Let's start with the willful retention charge.
1
Jun 11, 2023, 6:25 PM
|
|
I agree he can't be indicted now, but I also don't know about any direct evidence of knowledge or intent.
If the elements are met and the prosecution thinks they can prove it, indict.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7159]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 9717
Joined: 10/6/21
|
Re: Let's start with the willful retention charge.
1
Jun 11, 2023, 7:26 PM
|
|
Since none of us will hear of any specific details until after the 2025 election, we’ll all have to just wait it out.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [40353]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 23466
Joined: 7/2/13
|
armchair attorney here
2
Jun 11, 2023, 8:34 PM
[ in reply to Re: I’m ok with enforcing the laws and the indictment ] |
|
I know that ignorance isn't a defense, but I have to ponder this part:
Rather, a defendant only retains NDI willfully if he or she knows he or she possesses it and knows that such possession is prohibited due to the nature of the information.
He didn't think that their possession was prohibited, so it kinda rules out the willful retention? My apologies if I missed the part where he says he knows that he shouldn't have them. If that's the case, then yeah it sounds like willful retention fits.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [828]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 3982
Joined: 4/14/09
|
Re: armchair attorney here
Jun 12, 2023, 2:41 PM
|
|
I think the couple of meetings (like with the unnamed writer cough-bobwoodward) when he was waving around papers and saying they were top secret was evidence that he knew.
But I also think he's such a clueless dolt that it probably didn't register with him, deep down. Someone said it above, I'm less inclined to think he took docs so he could sell state secrets and more inclined to think that he was a braggart who wanted to wave around papers to show people how important he was.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7159]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 9717
Joined: 10/6/21
|
Re: armchair attorney here
Jun 12, 2023, 11:33 PM
|
|
The key part of fluffhead’s puzzlement was that if Trump didn’t know that he wasn’t supposed to have the still classified documents, then how would he be guilty of intent to possess any and all categories of classified documents?
That Trump would foolishly hope to impress giant killer Bob Woodward by waving around documents that Trump KNEW that he did not have the Article 2 authority to possess is essentially proof that Trump was not trying to hide anything.
At least that’s how I understand fluffhead’s question.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [47750]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30414
Joined: 11/15/99
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4021]
TigerPulse: 68%
Posts: 8048
Joined: 12/9/01
|
Re: All the above plus bribery and racketerring.
Jun 12, 2023, 1:28 PM
|
|
Please link the evidence that will guarantee a conviction.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31908]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37202
Joined: 11/22/03
|
Who "they" is is the big difference here...
2
Jun 12, 2023, 8:48 AM
|
|
In the case of Trump, "they" is the FBI/federal government, after requesting the documents many times and being assured that all documents had been returned, they (FBI) raided his home and found a lot more. Further, they are asserting Trump knew he had them and obstructed and misled the government regarding their whereabouts.
In the case of Biden, "they" were Biden's lawyers that voluntarily disclosed that Biden had documents at his home as a result of Biden ordering them to search his properties/offices.
Should Biden have had the docs? No and there is a special council looking into it.
Is it the same thing as what Trump is accused of doing? Heck no
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3213]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1204
Joined: 5/8/03
|
Re: Who "they" is is the big difference here...
1
Jun 12, 2023, 10:47 AM
|
|
Trump, Biden, Clinton, Pence and anyone else that had classified documents in their possession when not authorized should be nailed to a cross for it. I've have had military counterparts lose their careers over leaving a safe unlocked and not be in the same room for a 5 minute bathroom break. The difference in the normal guy and the "elite' punishment is ridiculously unfair and disproportionate.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31908]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37202
Joined: 11/22/03
|
I get that sentiment...
Jun 12, 2023, 11:20 AM
|
|
and I don't claim to be an expert on classification and protection requirements.
I've gotta assume (and could be 100% wrong) that as part of their executive duties that the mentioned people might legitimately need classified docs outside of their "office" as anormal course of their job. I'm guessing there are levels which dictate what is acceptable and perhaps they indeed do have different rules for some of these things than others. I guess we'll see what the IC says about Biden.
As for Clinton, the whole mess was mishandled by the FBI, no matter what side of the issue you fall on.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: I get that sentiment...
1
Jun 12, 2023, 2:14 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4021]
TigerPulse: 68%
Posts: 8048
Joined: 12/9/01
|
Re: I get that sentiment...
Jun 12, 2023, 2:51 PM
|
|
Should Durham have been appointed instead? Lol
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [840]
TigerPulse: 67%
Posts: 1085
Joined: 10/19/21
|
Re: I get that sentiment...
Jun 12, 2023, 11:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: I get that sentiment... ] |
|
Both Biden and Pence had controlled areas in their personal homes for generating, discussing, and viewing classified info while VP. Biden’s DE home has the same thing now, but the old documents were found outside of it. It’s easy to understand how a few documents got misplaced at their homes. The documents at the penn biden center need a little more explanation.
We have to wait a few more hours to see if the Trump cult burns down Miami over his arraignment. At the least, we have another syphilis outbreak coming, just like after Jan 6.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: I get that sentiment...
1
Jun 13, 2023, 12:02 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7159]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 9717
Joined: 10/6/21
|
Re: I get that sentiment...
1
Jun 13, 2023, 1:06 AM
[ in reply to Re: I get that sentiment... ] |
|
Your arguments to excuse Biden’s possession of classified information from his pre-presidential days lacks consistency.
“Both Biden (during his pre-presidential years) and Pence had controlled areas in their personal homes for generating, discussing, and viewing classified …”
This implies that, in your understanding, a person without presidential privilege may legally possess classified documents, but only so long as they are all secured at all times.
Then you opine “Biden’s DE home has the same thing (controlled, secured areas in the home) now, but the old documents were found outside of it. It’s easy to understand how a few documents got misplaced at their homes.”
So it is therefore OK for a non-president to use the ‘ooops, I forgot to secure the classified documents in my home as I should have’ excuse to absolve himself from any criminal charges?
I can assure you that if a non-president bureaucrat (a military officer, for instance) had a security lapse with respect to the custody of confidential information, and was caught while failing in his stewardship of that information, then hard time would be the result.
I’ll admit to not knowing if people ranging from mid-level bureaucrats to VPs have special privileges to mishandle classified material with impunity. I do know that Article 2 of the Constitution only confers that privilege upon the president.
Other: Do yourself a favor and don’t get worked up by the arraignment. The D.C. district was not the legal venue for the grand jury to be held. The correct venue for the grand jury was that of the 11th district in S.FL. The magistrate who presides over the arraignment will probably not cause a fuss, but any judge worth his salt will say ##### about this glaring technical error.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [840]
TigerPulse: 67%
Posts: 1085
Joined: 10/19/21
|
Re: I get that sentiment...
Jun 13, 2023, 12:05 AM
[ in reply to I get that sentiment... ] |
|
Clinton wasn’t accused of having classified documents, that is, paper or electronic documents with standard header/footer markings and that have been formally classified. She was accused of having emails on an unclassified system where she and others discussed classified or sensitive info.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: I get that sentiment...
1
Jun 13, 2023, 12:20 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7159]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 9717
Joined: 10/6/21
|
Re: I get that sentiment...
Jun 13, 2023, 1:23 AM
[ in reply to Re: I get that sentiment... ] |
|
Exfoliation of evidence is one set of grounds for Hillary to be guilty of unauthorized possession of classified documents.
From uslegal.com - definitions:
“Spoliation of evidence refers to intentional or negligent withholding, hiding, alteration or destruction of evidence relevant to a legal proceeding. Accordingly, it is inferred that a person who destroys such evidence does it with consciousness of guilt.”
The simple act of destroying flash drives, hard drives, etc. is the act of destroying evidence. Standard rule of law means that when the accused does this, then the accused has admitted to being guilty of the alleged crime.
That the FBI and DoJ conspicuously avoided accusation of Hillary possessing classified documents (which, by her behavior in destroying all of those ‘strictly personal, non-sensitive government’ records) proves the illegality with respect to the FBI and DoJ as far as equal prosecution under the law is concerned. Anyone paying the least bit of attention to how law enforcement & prosecution handled the Hillary private e-mail server deal was handled know that the federal bureaucracy is horrifically corrupt and biased to the benefit of Democrat politicians and their constituents.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [840]
TigerPulse: 67%
Posts: 1085
Joined: 10/19/21
|
Re: I get that sentiment...
Jun 13, 2023, 7:50 AM
|
|
Maybe I need to explain it better. She wasn’t accused of holding classified documents because there weren’t any classified documents in the traditional sense. This was still years before marking tools were implemented for emails on govt systems. There were a couple of emails where someone used “(c)” to indicate confidential information, but the majority of the “classified” information was determined later by authorized classifiers reviewing the emails. If they had happened to record her govt blackberry, they would have found many conversations considered classified.
Imagine what they’d find if they had recorded Trump’s personal Samsung phone. He regularly discussed classified info in his bedtime calls to Hannity.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7159]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 9717
Joined: 10/6/21
|
Re: I get that sentiment...
Jun 13, 2023, 9:19 AM
|
|
‘Trump conversations with Hannity involving classified documents recorded on his Samsung.’
Protected by Article 2 of the Constitution and therefore 100% legal.
Look, I think that level of Constitutional impunity (for a president who acquired the confidential information while president) is terrible. But it is, if this simple and unambiguous article of the Constitution means what it reads, le perfectly legal.
In the Hillary case, there would have been no interest in her home server had there not been concern about highly sensitive documents being on there in the first place. Remember that Hillary was admonished for being ‘extremely careless’ with sensitive federal information. That she exfoliated evidence of those documents to mask the level of delicacy of the information is grounds for a guilty charge conviction. FBI and DoJ did not want to prosecute Hillary. Instead of an unannounced raid to seize information, FBI granted a one week ‘courtesy’ advance notice before showing up in Colorado. That the FBI and DoJ were so careful to not mention concerns about the information (as you reminded me, their investigation mentioned the server), they may have created a technicality in which Hillary’s exfoliation of evidence was actually not part of the reason for the search. Maybe that loophole does work to allow the investigated person a way out of trouble with respect to exfoliation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [840]
TigerPulse: 67%
Posts: 1085
Joined: 10/19/21
|
Re: I get that sentiment...
Jun 14, 2023, 1:00 AM
|
|
You still don’t understand the distinction between sensitive and (confidential, secret, top secret). CLOWNS.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13160]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14157
Joined: 11/2/15
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [81078]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 56152
Joined: 9/13/04
|
Poor Trump! He's not being treated fair for stealing
Jun 12, 2023, 2:06 PM
|
|
classified information
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31908]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37202
Joined: 11/22/03
|
I don't believe that is true...
Jun 12, 2023, 2:57 PM
[ in reply to Wrong ] |
|
the reporting of events was that Biden's attys notified the National Achieves on Nov 3 and the NA notified the FBI on Nov 4 and then the FBI proceeded to do an assessment at Biden's other houses and offices.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: I don't believe that is true...
1
Jun 12, 2023, 4:30 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7159]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 9717
Joined: 10/6/21
|
Re: I don't believe that is true...
Jun 12, 2023, 11:45 PM
[ in reply to I don't believe that is true... ] |
|
Also keep in mind that Biden possessed classified documents going back to his time as a senator and as a VP.
Strictly verboten, no presidential privilege justification for having those documents when he did.
I have no idea about whether past crimes of unauthorized personal possession of classified documents gets washed away if that person becomes president and still has those documents. If the DoJ can conjure up a legalistic sounding excuse to keep from punishing Biden after he is out of office in mid-January 2025, then rest assured that they’ll do so.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [840]
TigerPulse: 67%
Posts: 1085
Joined: 10/19/21
|
Re: I’m ok with enforcing the laws and the indictment
Jun 12, 2023, 11:46 PM
|
|
“They” in this case was Biden’s lawyers, who searched at his request. Most of the documents were found that way. A few were found later with some government investigators invited to tag along.
Big difference between accidental or negligent mishandling and then full cooperation versus stealing, concealing, and divulging classified info.
Trumpers are way to stupid to understand that difference though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7159]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 9717
Joined: 10/6/21
|
Re: I’m ok with enforcing the laws and the indictment
Jun 13, 2023, 1:36 AM
|
|
Article 2 of the constitution gives extraordinary power to a president with respect to possession of classified documents. The president, unique to any other person, has the right under Article 2 to declare into the wind, no witnesses or anything, that his entire cache of classified documents are declassified.
Precedent for this statement was most recently confirmrmed by the courts when the G.W.Bush admin’s bureaucracy challenged Bill Clinton’s right to possess sensitive recordings conversations of Mr. Clinton with various foreign leaders and highly placed officials. Clinton cited Article 2 of the Constitution, refused to give up the tapes for GWB’s DoJ to review, and the courts agreed that B.Clinton was within his rights as an ex-president to possesses these tapes, and to not have to show them to anyone.
I’m not suggesting that this is how things SHOULD be done.
I am suggesting that this is how things ARE done.
All of that other ‘Trump did this, Trump did that’ stuff is just irrelevant.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [840]
TigerPulse: 67%
Posts: 1085
Joined: 10/19/21
|
Re: I’m ok with enforcing the laws and the indictment
Jun 13, 2023, 8:07 AM
|
|
Article 2 says absolutely nothing about classification. Somebody is feeding you a big load of BS. “Sensitive” and “classified” are not the same thing. Sensitive means the information doesn’t technically qualify as c, s, or ts but they don’t think it should be released to the public. The full term is “sensitive unclassified,” so paragraph 2 should read “… right to possess sensitive unclassified recordings …”
Bill Clinton continues to hold a security clearance and receives select classified briefings, the same as all but one living former president. Donald Trump’s clearance was revoked.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7159]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 9717
Joined: 10/6/21
|
Re: I’m ok with enforcing the laws and the indictment
Jun 13, 2023, 9:40 AM
|
|
Article 2 pertains to presidential privilege. Classified documents & classified information in his possession are legally the president’s or ex-president’s as long as that information came into his possession or a non-government controlled facility (such as a storage locker, garage, closet, sock drawer, etc.) before his time in office came to an end.
Bureaucrats do not have the authority to use bureaucratic rules … even if approved by Congress and signed into law by a president … to supercede the rights of the president as outlined in Article 2.
The critical importance of separation of powers is why Article 2 was written how it was. Regardless of congressional desires to erode that presidential power (and therefore to erode the power of the presidency), congress doesn’t get to do that.
What happens if an ex-president sells confidential information in his private possession to enemies of the USA? What if the ex-president told a witness (cough cough … Bob Woodward) that he had (still classified) information? Again, the ex-president can declassify all documents in his personal possession by simply having an unspoken ‘poof, it’s all declassified’ moment. But if he speaks to a ‘witness’ that he possesses still not unclassified documents, one would think that might carve out a circumstance that bypasses Article 2 protection.
Neither of us know. Same as with everyone else, we’ll see what happens.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [840]
TigerPulse: 67%
Posts: 1085
Joined: 10/19/21
|
Re: I’m ok with enforcing the laws and the indictment
Jun 14, 2023, 12:56 AM
|
|
You are so off base. You aren’t even in the same ball field, state, country, or even the planet.
That isn’t how anything in this world works.
CLOWNS.
Entertaining at the circus. Annoying AF in real life.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 63
| visibility 1
|
|
|
50
