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Replies: 60
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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I do not understand the OL criticism
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Sep 20, 2023, 11:06 AM
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I think the overall play has been pretty good.
Run blocking has been great all 3 games. Most of our missed blocks have been at the TE position where we are still struggling to block.
Pass blocking has been OK, still room for improvement but for the most part there has been time to throw the football. We’ve been pretty good on the left side too where you need to be solid.
Definitely not the weakness of the offense to this point in the season.
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CU Guru [1377]
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Re: I do not understand the OL criticism
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Sep 20, 2023, 11:09 AM
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Agreed
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Commissioner [928]
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Re: I do not understand the OL criticism
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Sep 14, 2021, 11:24 PM
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I respectfully disagree, almost to the point I wonder if you and I have been watching different games.
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Orange Blooded [4306]
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Phil Mafah does not have the same issues as Shipley
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Sep 20, 2023, 11:13 AM
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Cade Klubnik also has plenty of time to make plays
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Freshman [-79]
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I watched every minute of all 3 games. The OL is fine, much better than last year.
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5
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Sep 20, 2023, 11:13 AM
[ in reply to Re: I do not understand the OL criticism ] |
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We’re 20th in offense, with a growing QB, a brand new system, and a brand new coach.
The OL isn’t Georgia, but it will be just as good as any national championship line we’ve had.
Maybe you’re watching but don’t really understand what you’re seeing? That sounds more realistic actually.
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Hall of Famer [22395]
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Shipley and Mafah are averaging 6.3 and 6.6 yards per carry.
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Sep 20, 2023, 11:16 AM
[ in reply to Re: I do not understand the OL criticism ] |
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We are averaging 216 yards rushing per game, good for 16th in the country and 272 yards passing per game, which is excellent balance. We have given up 3 sacks in 3 games. We are 9th in scoring.
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All-TigerNet [13160]
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cool...so we should expect the same against ND
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Sep 20, 2023, 11:22 AM
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as Duke and a couple of FCS schools?
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Hall of Famer [22395]
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Bless your little broken heart.
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Sep 20, 2023, 11:24 AM
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#whineyassbitch.
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Legend [16930]
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Re: cool...so we should expect the same against ND
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Sep 20, 2023, 6:15 PM
[ in reply to cool...so we should expect the same against ND ] |
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Notre Dame have played Navy, Central Michigan, Tennessee State, and NC State. Do you think this is substantially better than our schedule? Because our SOS is currently 13th while Notre Dame is 44th. Should tell explicitly what a complete fallacy you’re buying into.
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All-TigerNet [13160]
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Would you rather have Clemsons OL or NDs on the one yard line?***
Sep 20, 2023, 9:33 PM
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Freshman [-79]
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Id rather have our team we beat them fairly regularly, no?
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Sep 21, 2023, 10:10 AM
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Maybe you should pay attention to us being the 2nd best program of the playoff era. We have the 4th most wins the last 3 years, and we’re 5th in wins the last 2 seasons. The OL is fine and we’ve accomplished way more than Notre Dame has since Lou Holtd.
I’ll take our team and OL everytime.
You’re talking out of your of your asz.
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All-American [562]
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Re: cool...so we should expect the same against ND
Sep 21, 2023, 12:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: cool...so we should expect the same against ND ] |
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You gotta point, FA is a gd powerhouse, Charleston Southern-everyone is scurred of them ranked 120, and Duke-well Duke is Duke, nuff said—
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Legend [16930]
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Re: cool...so we should expect the same against ND
Sep 21, 2023, 8:52 PM
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You might have a point if I said, or even implied, any of that. But our SOS is ranked 13 so when you deliberately attempt to tear it down without any actual context it could cause one to question your allegiance.
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All-American [562]
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Really shouldn't have had to point out how soft the schedule has been...
Sep 21, 2023, 12:18 PM
[ in reply to cool...so we should expect the same against ND ] |
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but it's telling how necessary it apparently was. Telling, as in the general state of bliss and willful ignorance found on this forum collectively—
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Freshman [-79]
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Yeah, because its actually the 13th rated SOS.
Sep 21, 2023, 1:08 PM
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Facts are cool things, no?
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All-American [562]
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Re: Yeah, because its actually the 13th rated SOS.
Sep 21, 2023, 4:02 PM
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Well if you say so, sure our SOS isn't #1 because there's about as much chance as that being the actual reality as the former—
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All-American [562]
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Re: Yeah, because its actually the 13th rated SOS.
Sep 21, 2023, 4:10 PM
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Duke is 26 at 3-0 and beat us when we were inside the top 10 who the f---- did they play the other 2 games to be 13 slots behind us, with themselves. Water dispersing, meaningless metric—
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Legend [16930]
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Re: Yeah, because its actually the 13th rated SOS.
Sep 21, 2023, 8:54 PM
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It’s pretty common to dismiss objective metrics entirely when you are making a purely emotional argument. We suck because I said we would and what I choose to acknowledge reinforces all of those beliefs. Anything that contradicts is hogwash.
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All-American [562]
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Re: Yeah, because its actually the 13th rated SOS.
Sep 21, 2023, 5:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: Yeah, because its actually the 13th rated SOS. ] |
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Duke is 26 at 3-0 and beat us when we were inside the top 10 who the f---- did they play the other 2 games to be 13 slots behind us, with themselves. Water dispersing, meaningless metric—
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Commissioner [996]
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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Re: I do not understand the OL criticism
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Sep 20, 2023, 12:32 PM
[ in reply to Re: I do not understand the OL criticism ] |
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Alright…
We have a certain segment of fans that see a QB running from pressure and RB stopped for a 1 yard gain and surmise that the OL play stinks.
Then we have another segment of fans that watch the blocking scheme and consider the play and then determine whether the OL did their job.
The OL has been a huge liability in the past here at Clemson and I’ve been very critical of that position group. But they a decent squad this year.
You want to know they issues you are seeing? We have a QB that’s developing and learning to step up and climb the placket. We also have some legitimate run blocking issues at TE and pass blocking at RB.
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All-American [562]
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And the ALL-WORLD defense fronts they've faced in the 1st 3 games¿?****
Sep 21, 2023, 12:28 PM
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Freshman [-79]
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Were 20th on offense. FSU is 33rd, with a slightly higher rated SOS.
Sep 21, 2023, 1:10 PM
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Keep chucking spaghetti at the wall and hoping something sticks
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Walk-On [143]
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Re: Were 20th on offense. FSU is 33rd, with a slightly higher rated SOS.
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Sep 21, 2023, 2:19 PM
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Who has the higher ranked schedule? I would think FSU does. LSU is better than Duke, Southern Miss is better than Charleston Southern, and BC is better than FAU. FSU has played two P5's and a G5. We've played a P5, a G5, and a bad FCS team. Any system that has our SOS ranked as harder than FSU's to this point probably shouldn't be taken seriously.
With all that said, I don't think our o-line has been bad. It's certainly serviceable. Hopefully they hold up this Saturday against the best front we've seen so far this season.
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CU Guru [1377]
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Re: Were 20th on offense. FSU is 33rd, with a slightly higher rated SOS.
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Sep 21, 2023, 2:55 PM
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How do you know LSU is better than Duke. BC lost to northern Illinois dude. Which is nothern Illinois only win. BC almost lost to Holy Cross. How can you definitively say BC is better than FAU?
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Walk-On [143]
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Re: Were 20th on offense. FSU is 33rd, with a slightly higher rated SOS.
Sep 21, 2023, 3:24 PM
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You think Duke has the same kind of dudes on the defensive line that LSU has? You don't think BC has has more along the defensive front than FAU? Southern Miss would beat Charleston Southern by four TD's. Come on, be realistic here.
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All-American [562]
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Legend [16930]
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Re: Transitive property doesn't apply....
Sep 21, 2023, 8:59 PM
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Yet you’re using a emo - transitive property. You believe LSU is really good and therefore you believe FSU must be really, really good. You believe Duke is bad because they usually are and therefore thank we’re worse and considerably worse than FSU. It’s the exact principle that you’re mocking. I’ve only tried to point that the available date suggests that we’re not so different. Vegas has the game as less than field goal and there has been no major line movement. Warren Nolan and Sagarin, two completely different algorithms, say Clemson is the favorite. SOS metrics say our schedule are similar. But all that is meaningless next to your feelings about the team, which is obviously negative.
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Orange Blooded [4306]
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The OL is good enough this year
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Sep 20, 2023, 11:12 AM
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it's people talking about issues that were a thing years ago but are no longer an issue
they are trying you know
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CU Guru [1852]
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Re: I do not understand the OL criticism
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Sep 20, 2023, 11:14 AM
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I think the concern comes from 2 areas. Duke was able to generate a lot of pressure from their ends (who let’s be honest are still Duke players) and more concerning is short yardage situation continues to be terrible
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Freshman [-79]
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Exactly. Just another baseless b!tch point. We have a segment of
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Sep 20, 2023, 11:16 AM
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fans who just repeat things they read on the internet, no matter how baseless it may be.
The OL has been fine, and it’s getting better as it gels
Some dudes might need to find another hobby they can fully understand without the help of message board posts.
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Tiger Cub [12]
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Re: Exactly. Just another baseless b!tch point. We have a segment of
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Sep 21, 2023, 5:02 PM
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"fans who just repeat things they read on the internet, no matter how baseless it may be." This is the Truth! Playing OL is a very technical position. They work as a unit. It is the most thankless job on the team yet without an OL, NOTHING would happen on offense. It is easy to sit behind a screen and complain when you have no idea what the blocking scheme is. Perhaps the segment of the toxic fan base that repeatedly condemns our OL plays a role in putting doubt into a recruit's decision on why they should NOT come to Clemson? If you were a highly recruited Olineman or parent of a OL recruit, would you want to play OL at Clemson after reading this thread? And this thread is one of many many negative OL threads. Vitriolic attacks on our very own players do nothing but harm. IMO it is cannibalistic in nature and grows like a cancer. The OL is playing better and will only improve as the season goes on.
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Orange Blooded [3060]
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Re: I do not understand the OL criticism
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Sep 20, 2023, 11:20 AM
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We wouldn't be an offensive juggernaut but we'd be a better offense if every position group matched the OL's level of play.
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All-Pro [699]
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Two things to remember of every fan base
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Sep 20, 2023, 11:46 AM
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The most popular player is always the backup quarterback.
The least popular coach is always the o-line coach.
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Varsity [237]
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Re: Two things to remember of every fan base
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Sep 20, 2023, 9:27 PM
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Too many OL get knocked backwards on running plays.
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All-American [562]
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Re: Two things to remember of every fan base
Sep 21, 2023, 8:44 PM
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Well they were facing multiple future NFL 1st round draft selections in each of our 1st 3 games; from here on out—it's all gravy as far as DL personnel goes on our remaining schedule—
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All-In [27193]
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Re: I do not understand the OL criticism
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Sep 20, 2023, 11:58 AM
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Are we talking about Clemson? Because if so, I'm not sure what games you're watching.
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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Re: I do not understand the OL criticism
Sep 20, 2023, 12:59 PM
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Nope, guess I’m watching a team whose running backs have magical super powers
If only the OL were good at blocking we’d be rushing for 300 yards per game
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All-TigerNet [13568]
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Re: I do not understand the OL criticism
Sep 20, 2023, 12:35 PM
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They need more consistency and a focus that lasts 4 quarters. This will be a war in the trenches on Saturday with little margin for error.
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110%er [6453]
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Re: I do not understand the OL criticism
Sep 20, 2023, 12:38 PM
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EXACTLY
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110%er [7497]
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The substitutions were heavy - new guys getting reps
Sep 20, 2023, 6:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: I do not understand the OL criticism ] |
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Not whole units playing in cohesion. For example on the Cade qb sneak TD drive - how many people know who was on the line for those 3 plays to punch if in(by the way, Shipley should have been able to get in the play prior)?
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Fans typically have no idea what they are looking at
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Sep 20, 2023, 12:41 PM
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other than the result. That’s not a criticism, it’s just the way it is. You have to know exactly what the play call is, each player’s responsibility, then see it on film to understand exactly what happened. I’ve seen great O line play get criticized by fans when the QB ends up scrambling. They have no idea the QB scrambled because a WR ran a 10 yard crossing route when he was supposed to run a 5 yard crossing route. By the time this happens, the timing of the entire play is off. The issue was a wrong route by a WR, but the result was a sack, so the OL sucks.
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Legend [18798]
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Do yourself a favor and just watch Parks and Putnam.
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Sep 21, 2023, 7:58 PM
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You don't need to be Coach Bill Belichick to know that they are average (at best) offensive lineman.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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If you will provide me 10 minutes worth of film
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Sep 21, 2023, 8:09 PM
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I’ll be glad to look at it.
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Legend [18798]
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The "film" is just my eyes seeing over and over again bad play.
Sep 21, 2023, 11:05 PM
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Obviously you haven't been watching either of these guys or you'd agree with me.
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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Orange Blooded [2136]
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A quick lookback at the last two games
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Sep 20, 2023, 12:46 PM
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as in super quick, 10 minutes,
The guards get beat a lot and a lot of bad things happen when linemen start pulling, it's like they trip over their own feet and can't get on blocks. Also not very encouraging to see as much penetration as I see against FAU.
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Legend [16930]
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Re: I do not understand the OL criticism
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Sep 20, 2023, 1:06 PM
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The same people who are criticizing the play are the same ones who complain about the number of 5 star recruits we get on the o-line. Never mind that there have only been 21 total 5 star offensive linemen in the last 5 years combined. And we got one of them.
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All-American [562]
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1st 3 games #of stars opp dlines: z e r o ****
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Sep 21, 2023, 12:34 PM
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Legend [16930]
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Re: 1st 3 games #of stars opp dlines: z e r o ****
Sep 21, 2023, 9:12 PM
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Well this simply isn’t true. I looked up one player, starting Left Tackle Graham Barton and he is a 3* true senior who was a freshman All American, has played every game the last two seasons, first team ACC last season, and preseason All American honorable mention going into the season. Pro Football Focus named him one of America’s best offensive linemen. 4th highest graded tackle in P5 in 2022. Only tackle to grade above 85 in pass AND rush blocking. He is a consensus 2nd round pick with multiple 1st round projections. This is literally the first player I looked up. He’s probably the best LT we will face all season.
But I’m sure you didn’t do any research and just thought you could make up an emotionally based slam against our team and no one would look into it.
I thought you were talking o-line. But thankfully the first player on D I looked up - RJ Oben was also a 3* and a 5th year senior. So still wrong.
Message was edited by: viztiz®
Message was edited by: viztiz®
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Orange Blooded [2483]
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Re: I do not understand the OL criticism
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Sep 20, 2023, 2:47 PM
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I've seen a few missed blocks from OT's, but that happens.
I think we could improve run blocking in short-yardage situations. The fumbling has been due to the penetration at the line. I read someone here say our guys play too high, and thought that was a good description.
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Head Coach [752]
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Re: I do not understand the OL criticism
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Sep 20, 2023, 4:29 PM
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Gonna have to disagree on the fumble part. The penetration (when it happened) didn't interfere with the QB-RB exchange. The guys with the ball need to hold onto the ball. My $0.02.
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Orange Blooded [3111]
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Re: I do not understand the OL criticism
Sep 20, 2023, 6:30 PM
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Mafahs fumble at the goal line was a fluke. He DT was spun into the ground by the guard and he spun his helmet right into the football.
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110%er [7497]
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Agree***
Sep 20, 2023, 6:24 PM
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110%er [6474]
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Re: I do not understand the OL criticism
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Sep 20, 2023, 6:59 PM
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Nothing about our O.L. is good.
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All-TigerNet [12547]
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Nopush, gets knocked back, can't get a
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Sep 20, 2023, 7:30 PM
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Yard when the need it on the goal and Cade is often running for his life. And if I'm a coot, ask Shipley.
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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Re: Nopush, gets knocked back, can't get a
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Sep 20, 2023, 11:41 PM
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Your not a coot, you just don’t know what you are looking at.
They aren’t a perfect OL, but they are the best squad I’ve seen us field in a long while.
This team is averaging 200+ yards rushing a game, and when Cade is running for his life it’s usually because he’s not stepping up into the pocket and because shipley isn’t great at picking up pass blocks
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110%er [9656]
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Re: I do not understand the OL criticism
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Sep 20, 2023, 9:28 PM
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There are so many new things to complain about the OL looks improved
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Orange Blooded [4792]
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Re: I do not understand the OL criticism
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Sep 21, 2023, 2:44 PM
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Offensive line has been OK but the problem with that is 2/3 of the season thus far has been made up of supposedly vastly inferior competition. If they only look OK in those games what should we expect this weekend? I think that's the real concern of many. Perhaps they will play up to their level of competition. We shall see and hope for the best!
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Orange Blooded [3473]
TigerPulse: 78%
Posts: 5158
Joined: 9/12/10
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Well their first big exam is in 2 days
Sep 21, 2023, 2:57 PM
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I guess we will see the results then.
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Orange Blooded [3965]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3810
Joined: 8/6/13
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Re: I do not understand the OL criticism
Sep 21, 2023, 9:18 PM
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Against FAU I would mostly agree. But the pass pro against Duke and Charleston Southern wasn’t that great. Seemed to be they weren’t in sync. Let’s hope they put it all together against FSU.
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