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Replies: 33
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CU Medallion [58430]
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Man shoots through door at bad guys ...
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Aug 31, 2023, 10:27 AM
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He did not know them. He could see that they had guns, and they were literally kicking in his door. I know how the law typically works (you can't shoot somebody outside of your house, you have to wait until they enter), but in this case, do you wait until they actually get inside the house, with their guns, where you would have to risk being shot? Are you obligated to subject yourself to that degree of mortal danger in order to avoid harming what is obviously a bad guy? What would you do?
For the record, this has been discussed before, and generally I understand why you shouldn't shoot people through the door, but to me, this is a great example of why it's not always that cut-and-dried.
https://abc7.com/dallas-man-shoots-intruders-break-in-texas-guns/13719639/
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110%er [7210]
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I have so many questions.
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Aug 31, 2023, 10:40 AM
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1) He used an INTERCOM to say nobody was home? Maybe say I'm home, I see you, and I have a gun.
2) What do I not understand about the video for that kind of shot grouping?
3) Was anyone home across the hall?
4) What was so special about this guy's apartment that he was targeted?
More to your point, you should just be responsible for every round you put downrange. Shoot a guy trying to break into your home? Hooray. Shoot a kid at the wrong house or a Jehovah's witness? Jail. Miss the guy trying to break into your home and shoot an innocent bystander? Jail.
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CU Medallion [58430]
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In this case, would you have waited until they kicked in the
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Aug 31, 2023, 10:43 AM
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door, entered your house, and started shooting at you?
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Heisman Winner [119741]
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Re: In this case, would you have waited until they kicked in the
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Aug 31, 2023, 10:51 AM
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I doubt he answers
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CU Medallion [58430]
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Re: In this case, would you have waited until they kicked in the
Aug 31, 2023, 10:59 AM
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And that was really THE question: "What would you do?". I'm all for discussing the topic in depth, but I've noticed you don't get many direct answers on here. Instead it's usually deflecting and redirecting to make a different point.
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110%er [7210]
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Not enough information.
Aug 31, 2023, 10:58 AM
[ in reply to In this case, would you have waited until they kicked in the ] |
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Judging by the fact that he missed his intended targets and just put some rounds in the neighbor's wall, I'm leaning towards not the best tactic. Probably better to find a decent firing position, wait patiently, and flip their off switch as soon as they breach or turn into your los. Then again, maybe this guy knew he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and scaring them off was his best bet.
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CU Medallion [58430]
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Okay. Two guys with guns are kicking in your door.
Aug 31, 2023, 11:05 AM
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You are in your house/apartment, with a gun. You have a neighbor across the hall, just like this guy. You have seconds to make a decision. Is there any scenario, hypothetical of course, in which you can imagine that you would shoot through the door instead of waiting until they kicked in the door and entered your home?
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110%er [7210]
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Personally, no way. Not for these morons.
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Aug 31, 2023, 11:15 AM
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I don't think it's necessarily wrong though. You said yourself that it's not cut and dry.
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110%er [7155]
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Re: Personally, no way. Not for these morons.
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Aug 31, 2023, 12:28 PM
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You are dodging a scenario which is uncomfortable for you.
Let me try:
YOU believe that an armed intruder who is trying to kick your door in and that you are in mortal danger. You don’t know if the door will remain intact as a barrier.
Do you shoot the guy through your door, or wait for the door to collapse (which you don’t know whether the door will burst open, or whether it will give way gradually [door frame wood starts to split, chain on door coming undone with each subsequent kick, etc)?
How much is your life worth to you?
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Personally, no way. Not for these morons.
Aug 31, 2023, 9:09 PM
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You are dodging a scenario which is uncomfortable for you.
Let me try:
YOU believe that an armed intruder who is trying to kick your door in and that you are in mortal danger. You don’t know if the door will remain intact as a barrier.
Do you shoot the guy through your door, or wait for the door to collapse (which you don’t know whether the door will burst open, or whether it will give way gradually [door frame wood starts to split, chain on door coming undone with each subsequent kick, etc)?
How much is your life worth to you?
If it comes to protecting anyone in my household including myself that are there by right or armed individuals trying to break in to do nothing but harm, I’ll unload any and all weapons that I have at my disposal until the threat no longer exist. 100% justified!
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: Okay. Two guys with guns are kicking in your door.
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Aug 31, 2023, 1:18 PM
[ in reply to Okay. Two guys with guns are kicking in your door. ] |
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When adrenaline kicks in, people just reflexively defend themselves. If this guy didn't hurt anybody, it'll be hard to justify charging him with anything serious. I mean, bad people, trying to break in. With guns. I can't see a DA bringing him to trial. You have an absolute right to light up somebody who crosses your threshold, outside of that the DA needs to use his judgment and this was clearly self-defense.
The charge, if any, should be some sort of misdemeanor. Reckless endangerment. Creating a traffic hazard. Destruction of private property, requiring him to pay for the holes in the wall and any appliances he may have damaged. Suchlike.
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Orange Blooded [3520]
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Re: In this case, would you have waited until they kicked in the
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Aug 31, 2023, 10:59 AM
[ in reply to In this case, would you have waited until they kicked in the ] |
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I agree with the above…I would have told them I was home and had a gun…that would have probably deterred them unless his apartment was being targeted for some reason. He shot through the door and appears to have missed intentionally…with rounds entering the wall of the apartment across the hall. What if he killed or injured someone in that apartment? Did saving his own life justify potentially taking another innocent life?
Saw a video recently where a cop shot and killed a woman during a traffic stop. He was justified in shooting her as she had pulled out a gun. However, at least one of his bullets went into the window of a car down range. Luckily it did not hit the occupant of the car. Another case where there was little/no thought given to what was down range.
To answer your question…he either should have waited or shot once at the guys chest and been done with it.
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CU Guru [1071]
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Re: I have so many questions.
Aug 31, 2023, 8:18 PM
[ in reply to I have so many questions. ] |
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1) He used an INTERCOM to say nobody was home? Maybe say I'm home, I see you, and I have a gun.
2) What do I not understand about the video for that kind of shot grouping?
3) Was anyone home across the hall?
4) What was so special about this guy's apartment that he was targeted?
More to your point, you should just be responsible for every round you put downrange. Shoot a guy trying to break into your home? Hooray. Shoot a kid at the wrong house or a Jehovah's witness? Jail. Miss the guy trying to break into your home and shoot an innocent bystander? Jail.
Jail for someone at your house at 2 AM? I disagree with that
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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That cop in Greenville a few years ago got away with that***
Aug 31, 2023, 10:51 AM
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All-In [27150]
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Absolutely you fire through the door.
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Aug 31, 2023, 11:36 AM
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But in this situation with neighbors right there, angle yourself where you're firing at the concrete backstop and not potentially through their door.
I would agree though the first step is to announce you are armed, they need to retreat, or they will be fired upon.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Absolutely you fire through the door.
Aug 31, 2023, 9:15 PM
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But in this situation with neighbors right there, angle yourself where you're firing at the concrete backstop and not potentially through their door.
I would agree though the first step is to announce you are armed, they need to retreat, or they will be fired upon.
I agree!
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CU Medallion [60043]
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They can shoot through the door as easily
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Aug 31, 2023, 12:42 PM
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as I can….I am shooting first. You clearly see the gun, crime is afoot and your life is in danger.
What else is there to talk about?
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Heisman Winner [111651]
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lollers
Aug 31, 2023, 12:45 PM
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other than you panicking in that situation and shooting yourself in the foot, then through the ceiling, hilariously causing the bathtub to crash into your living room?
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Orange Blooded [3017]
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Re: lollers
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Aug 31, 2023, 1:51 PM
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You’re right about the possibility of anxiety causing one to miss. That’s why my weapon for home defense is a 12 gauge. Kind of hard to miss even in a stressful situation.
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Heisman Winner [111651]
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Re: lollers
Aug 31, 2023, 2:45 PM
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the perfect weapon for shooting through your own door.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: lollers
Aug 31, 2023, 8:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: lollers ] |
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Ditto. I know I'm not Davy Crockett.
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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CU Medallion [60043]
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This has to be a joke
Aug 31, 2023, 1:06 PM
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1. You shoot to kill. Always. If this scares you, then get shot. Not my problem.
2. Under that kind of stress, it’s impossible to aim and shoot. Impossible. The dynamics are too complex. They come through that door, you are pointing and shooting, period.
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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Blowing his nuts off is gonna 'hurt'... I'd be using 12ga.
Aug 31, 2023, 1:14 PM
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slugs followed by 00Buck in a ten round mag... It wouldn't scare me, believe me. The only thing is being able to get to the gun fast enough.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: Blowing his nuts off is gonna 'hurt'... I'd be using 12ga.
Aug 31, 2023, 1:21 PM
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I use #4 buck myself. 00's spread is way too tight for my tastes...in the heat of the moment I want max dispersal, I want a near-miss to be close enough, and I don't want to risk killing the kid next door.
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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Metal (foam-core or waffle-core) door, I want penetration.
Aug 31, 2023, 1:27 PM
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In this particular case, it's a function of mass.
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CU Medallion [60043]
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Its fun reading people talk about
Aug 31, 2023, 1:50 PM
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something that they couldn’t be more clueless on. Please continue.
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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Would you rather use a 9mm or a .40 or a 12ga slug to
Aug 31, 2023, 2:00 PM
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shoot through a door...? Love to hear your reasoning.
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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110%er [7210]
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Fair warning.
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Aug 31, 2023, 12:57 PM
[ in reply to They can shoot through the door as easily ] |
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Y'all are gonna be way less accurate than you think shooting through a door. If you're too close, you might get some splinters or worse coming back at you and as you said...they can shoot through the door too.
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110%er [9032]
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Re: Man shoots through door at bad guys ...
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Aug 31, 2023, 1:38 PM
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i will fire IF i can see they are armed
no problem
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CU Guru [1071]
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Re: Man shoots through door at bad guys ...
Aug 31, 2023, 8:20 PM
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i will fire IF i can see they are armed
no problem
Correct
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: Man shoots through door at bad guys ...
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Aug 31, 2023, 2:43 PM
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The idea that the intruder has to be in your house is not correct.
Texas like many states have Castle laws, that basically say that if a "reasonable person" is fear for your life or families life you are justified. This does not mean they have to have breached the door. Simply in the process of armed men kicking down the door, I would say a reasonable person would feel threatened. This is vastly different than a person ringing a doorbell, or just being on your property showing no threat other than being there.
What is Reasonable Under the Castle Doctrine?
The question of reasonability will always be one for the fact-finder, whether that is a grand jury, a petit jury, or a judge. However, there are instances where reasonability is presumed. The Castle Doctrine in Texas provides a presumption of using force against another person who is:
*unlawfully and with force entering or attempts to enter your habitation, vehicle, or workplace; or
attempting to remove you, by force, from your habitation, vehicle, or workplace;
committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.
https://versustexas.com/blog/castle-doctrine-texas/#:~:text=The%20Castle%20Doctrine%20in%20Texas%20is%20a%20legal%20principle%20that,from%20an%20intruder%20or%20attacker.
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All-In [42197]
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Re: Man shoots through door at bad guys ...
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Sep 1, 2023, 12:07 AM
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Also in SC, they don’t have to be in your house—just on your property—to justify violent force if they threaten you with the same.
Also, this seems pretty cut and dry. They ###### around and found out. Clean shoot, IMO.
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