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Freshman [-79]
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Saw it mentioned below that Cade should have started vs. USuC.
Dec 17, 2022, 2:32 PM
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Why??
DJ had just won the two previous games, in dominating fashion.
In those two games, he was 42 of 62 (68%) for 418 yds, 3 TDs and 1 INT. He also ran for another 121 yards and 2 more TDs.
DJ was responsible for 593 yds and 5 TDs in those two dominant wins.
So can anyone explain why we would have started the backup against SC?
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CU Medallion [57179]
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Re: Saw it mentioned below that Cade should have started vs. USuC.
Dec 17, 2022, 2:35 PM
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Because we would have won handily.
Speculation.
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Freshman [-79]
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I know right. And of we would have played Phommachanh
Dec 17, 2022, 3:54 PM
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against Pitt, we would have won. Obviously.
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All-American [555]
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Re: I know right. And of we would have played Phommachanh
Dec 17, 2022, 5:12 PM
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Phommachan is not Cade
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Freshman [-79]
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Of course not, but there were people saying TP
Dec 17, 2022, 5:26 PM
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would have been better.
TP was 4th on GTs pecking order and is in the portal again.
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Orange Blooded [2100]
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Re: Saw it mentioned below that Cade should have started vs. USuC.
Dec 17, 2022, 2:37 PM
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Not saying CK2 should have started, but he should have been brought in no later than the middle of the third quarter.
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CU Guru [1266]
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Re: Saw it mentioned below that Cade should have started vs. USuC.
Dec 17, 2022, 2:48 PM
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I agree. Actually, if he would have led the last series, I feel it's a good chance we would have at least scored a FG and won the game. What's done is done and it's all conjecture at this point. Needless to say, many of us feel a opportunity to secure a lot of streaks was let go based on something we just don't understand.
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Freshman [-79]
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It's easy to make assumptions. But there's no way we're throwing the true freshman out there
Dec 17, 2022, 3:52 PM
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down one as time was winding down.
The same speculation you're using allows speculation to say Cade may have made a game-costing mistake coming into that fire. Then folks are griping that we shouldn't have thrown the true freshman into a pressure situation, just like the folks who blame the situation on Cade not winning the job against ND. And that situation wasn't nearly the pressure a game-winning need to execute would have been.
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CU Guru [1266]
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Re: It's easy to make assumptions. But there's no way we're throwing the true freshman out there
Dec 17, 2022, 5:31 PM
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AS I stated, my point is all conjecture. As is any other what-if scenario. He could have went in for one play and had a career-ending injury. If I could rewrite the past, it wouldn't be the outcome of a college football game.
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Freshman [-79]
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Oh ok, cool. So you weren't saying Cade should have started
Dec 17, 2022, 5:35 PM
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prior to the game.
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CU Guru [1776]
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Head Coach [768]
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Re: It's easy to make assumptions. But there's no way we're throwing the true freshman out there
Dec 18, 2022, 8:50 AM
[ in reply to It's easy to make assumptions. But there's no way we're throwing the true freshman out there ] |
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Under that scenario DJ should have never played a down this year...last year he stunk. Close to last in QB ranking in CFP...in the spring he looked just pitiful so that should have been it...a high level of QB production could only come from a vast rework...great kid and all but we got him to be a great QB and he just did not have it! If Ck had only played like he did in HS he would have been fine. His passing and running were much like Mahomes all over the field any angle, long runs, DW4 & TL but quicker! Just what the Clemson Dr. Ordered...Now we have to wait until next year to thrash our poultry!
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Freshman [-79]
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Why? The starter was winning and we were winning the game until 10 minutes left.
Dec 17, 2022, 3:48 PM
[ in reply to Re: Saw it mentioned below that Cade should have started vs. USuC. ] |
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And at that point it was DJs to win. Unfortunately he didn't get it done, but when we were winning up until 10 minutes left there was no reason to make a change.
Now, in hindsight, speculative coaching, maybe, but nothing in the real game called for a change.
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All-TigerNet [13157]
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Cade should have started after the spring game***
Dec 17, 2022, 3:07 PM
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Freshman [-79]
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We were 10-1 going into USuC.
Dec 17, 2022, 3:58 PM
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We couldn't stop ND for the life of us. Cade had a chance and failed.
DJ was playing very well until Syracuse. Even after that and the ND fiasco, he came back and won the two games I mentioned above, in dominating fashion.
Thanks, Coach Hindsight, for your thoughts.
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Legend [15216]
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Why is Cade starting against Tenn when DJ had 2 good games
Dec 17, 2022, 3:12 PM
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in a row and just 1 bad half against SCar?
Cade had 2.5 good quarters against an awful unc defense.
DJ was “playing his best football” against UL and Miami.
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Freshman [-79]
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Did you see the UNC game?
Dec 17, 2022, 3:59 PM
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Maybe you forgot about that one?
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110%er [5712]
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Orange Blooded [3639]
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Almost nobody said Cade should start against USCe
Dec 17, 2022, 3:17 PM
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The real argument is Cade should have been brought in during the game at some point, probably in the 3rd quarter.
There is no way DJ should have been allowed to finish a game 8/29 for 99 yards. It was a monumental coaching mistake by Dabo that cost us the game and almost certainly a birth in the CFP.
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Freshman [-79]
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Sir, look at this thread alone. Yes, many posters
Dec 17, 2022, 4:06 PM
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have said Cade should have been starting before that game and including that game.
We were winning the SC game until 10 minutes left. At no point previous to that was it needed to change QBs. Coaches don't typically change QBs when you're winning the game, and once they took the lead with 10 minutes left, by 1, you give the starter who brought you there the chance to go win it.
Everyone I was with and everyone I've spoken to since, we were just sure we were gonna win the game within those last 3 possessions. Even the last potential possession, we felt very confident DJ could get 20 yds to get in game winning FG range. Unfortunately Williams fumbled and we lost the chance. But you can bet DJ would have trotted out there around midfield with the game on the line. I still say we win if we don't fumble, but of course that's speculation not unlike assuming we win if Cade comes in.
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CU Guru [1797]
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Re: Sir, look at this thread alone. Yes, many posters
Dec 19, 2022, 10:41 AM
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I was saying to my wife at halftime of the USuCk game that Cade needed to take over no later than the middle of the third quarter, so I can't agree with your argument. I had seen DJ on bad days before and he was having a mediocre to bad day by halftime and those bad days usually snowball in the second half.
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Orange Blooded [3730]
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Self-awareness of DJU’s past performance & knack for…
Dec 17, 2022, 3:19 PM
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…spontaneous combustion.
Dabo & Streeter know DJU well enough to know when he is about to ”light it up”.
The second they saw DJ put his hand on that plunger, they should have called a timeout and let Cade come trotting out, because they know at that point, DJU is about to turn into ”Scabbers”.
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Freshman [-79]
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So you think the starter who was winning until 10 minutes left,
Dec 17, 2022, 4:08 PM
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should have been replaced?
That's not the way it works. At any level.
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Freshman [1]
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Re: So you think the starter who was winning until 10 minutes left,
Dec 17, 2022, 5:11 PM
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Why are you even bringing this back up? Anyone with eyes can see that DJ was good at times and terrible at other times. You want to talk about how bad UNC’s defense was? I hate to burst your bubble, but Miami’s isn’t ANY better.
Neither of those wins (UL or Miami) were dominant. They were frustrating games where Clemson had chances to put the game away early and didn’t because of the offense.
Why are you so insistent on throwing Cade under the bus in an attempt to keep your DJ narrative alive?
It’s time to move on. Cade beat out DJ. That’s what happened on the field. It took more time than most of us think it should have, but that’s what happened. DJ may not be the reason we lost to SC, but he certainly wasnt any help in beating them either. You only had 30 and your defense had 9 of them.
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Freshman [-79]
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You lost me.
Dec 17, 2022, 5:30 PM
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I brought it up for the reason I stated in the subject line... because just today there were people suggesting it.
I didn't throw Cade under any bus. Not even a little bit.
Did you look at DJs numbers in the OP? How can you possibly say they weren't dominant numbers?
You lost me, bubba.
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Head Coach [768]
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Re: So you think the starter who was winning until 10 minutes left,
Dec 17, 2022, 7:28 PM
[ in reply to Re: So you think the starter who was winning until 10 minutes left, ] |
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Even when DJ won he did not look sharp...and at least one quarter in every game he looked as if he lost concentration or fallen asleep...sometimes one quarter can cost you a whole game. Not once in 2 years did DJ bring the energy that Cade brought in on that 3rd series, he lifted everyone up offense and defense and after that Carolinas doubbers were in the dirt! We are over that... let's move on!
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Orange Blooded [3730]
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Cade’s (“Tesla”) style & presence would have…
Dec 18, 2022, 7:09 AM
[ in reply to So you think the starter who was winning until 10 minutes left, ] |
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…totally shaken up the Coot’s defensive adjustments.
Would Streeter have immediately adjusted his play calling for Cade, as he did in the ACCCFG?
Who knows, but I would like to think that Streeter would have flipped-the-switch forcing the Coots to scramble for real-time, on-the-field adjustments as Cade jumped into the driver’s seat of his Tesla Plaid offense.
And I think “Tesla” would have given the Coots ”The Plaid”
In fact, since Cade is from Austin and Tesla’s new GigaFactory is in Austin, maybe a good nickname for Cade should be ”Tesla”.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Saw it mentioned below that Cade should have started vs. USuC.
Dec 17, 2022, 3:28 PM
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CK should have been given some playing time in those two games where DJ built a comfortable lead. Then we would have known what we had in QB 2 (or should I say QB 1)
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Freshman [-79]
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Cade played in 5 games prior to UNC.
Dec 17, 2022, 4:09 PM
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He was 11 for 22, 98 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT.
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Asst Coach [703]
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Re: Cade played in 5 games prior to UNC.
Dec 17, 2022, 7:51 PM
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He was 11 for 22, 98 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT.
Outstanding analysis. And did you notice who was on the field with him when he came in to attempt these throws? Will Swinney for one, some walk ons, and maybe one true scholarship player. How naive can you be? The entire Cade versus DJ is an exercise scripted from all the way back to the spring game. The outcome is controlled by the plays that are called and by players they are called for. That's been the spring game since the 80's. It's a controlled scrimmage to give a desired outcome and certainly to get some film where there are question marks. As for the ND game, Cade is brought in. We are being hammered. We are inside our own 5 yard line. And we call a pass - OK. But this is just not any pass. It's a roll to your left and throw across your body pass with a defender turned loose and coming for a safety. And he tries to make a play. Is this let's start with something simple to get in the flow of the game? That call was an abomination.
The bottom line is their is simply no comparison between the 2 quarterbacks from any metric when they are running the same offense with the same talent on the field. I hate that DJ was a bust but sometimes it happens and you just need to move on and not run it into the ground.
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Freshman [-79]
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For some of those plays, yeah.
Dec 17, 2022, 8:08 PM
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He's absolutely had times behind the 1's, and when he did play with the 2's he was going up against other 2's. Swinney's kid isn't too bad either, by the way. He hasn't dropped anything.
Other than that I pretty much agree with everything you said, except that wacky part about the season being scripted beforehand.
Take care. Go Tigers!
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Cade played in 5 games prior to UNC.
Dec 17, 2022, 8:32 PM
[ in reply to Cade played in 5 games prior to UNC. ] |
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allorange,
I am curious. In your opinion, at what point did Cade become the better of the two QBs ? Which week was he finally ready to take the reins from DJ ?
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CU Guru [1207]
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Re: Saw it mentioned below that Cade should have started vs. USuC.
Dec 17, 2022, 3:35 PM
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It was obvious from very early on that DJ was only marginally improved from
a dismal 2021 season. CK should have replaced him early on and if DJ had entered
entered the portal then so be it. We would have been way better off.
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Freshman [-79]
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That's simply not true. DJs numbers were FAR better...
Dec 17, 2022, 4:11 PM
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And then the Syracuse and ND games happened. After that were the two games I showed above.
To say DJ was only marginally better than the horrible 2021 season just isn't true.
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CU Medallion [53830]
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I just about died laughing when that announcer said,
Dec 17, 2022, 3:56 PM
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"There's two words to describe that play"....I swear I thought the woman announcer was gonna say,"WHite boy?".
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Orange Blooded [4791]
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Re: Saw it mentioned below that Cade should have started vs. USuC.
Dec 17, 2022, 3:56 PM
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I can't imagine any other starter on the team being allowed to totally suck at their job for an entire game without being replaced for even one play at some point in the game. Unfortunately Dabo decided it was he and DJ against the world at some point this season, so there was no way he was going to admit that maybe the golden boy needed to sit for a series or two to see what his backup was capable of, which is what would have happened if Murphy, Bresee or Simpson had been completely ineffective for an entire game and they are all set to be top 20 picks in the draft. No idea why DJ got a different set of rules than anyone else. Go ask Dabo.
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Freshman [-79]
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So if the QB was that bad...
Dec 17, 2022, 4:14 PM
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How was it we were 10-1 and inline for a possible CFP bid?
When the QB is 10-1, he doesn't lose his job. That's the "rule".
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Asst Coach [703]
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Re: So if the QB was that bad...
Dec 17, 2022, 8:04 PM
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How was it we were 10-1 and inline for a possible CFP bid?
When the QB is 10-1, he doesn't lose his job. That's the "rule".
The rule is you get your best players on the field and dominate the doormats like Ga Tech (remember we scored 70 pts on them 2 years ago) and the cupcakes like Furman. Instead, we barely escape Tech with a blocked punt and stagger our way through a joke of schedule. And all we can say is we're winning. Until we play a decent team (ND did lose to Marshall at home and gave up 30 points to the Navy but OK, their not a bottom feeder ACC team) and then all the warts are exposed. And that of course was on both sides of the ball. So no, you don't stick with someone that is not performing because you are scraping by in the worst power 5 conference of the bunch. You make a change and try to elevate your play to a level with the top tier teams. Remember best is the standard? We haven't heard that one in a looong time.
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Orange Blooded [3581]
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Re: So if the QB was that bad...
Dec 17, 2022, 8:17 PM
[ in reply to So if the QB was that bad... ] |
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10-1 against what exactly? Our competition sucked balls and that’s obvious. The staff made major coaching issues allowing a terribly flawed qb to keep playing. Maybe cole wasn’t ready, who knows but dj was never ready. Nobody with a brain considers that 10-1 to be real. #### we coulda started my #### 8 year old mastiff and been 10-1 against that #### schedule
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Orange Blooded [4791]
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Re: So if the QB was that bad...
Dec 17, 2022, 11:26 PM
[ in reply to So if the QB was that bad... ] |
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And the players I mentioned were also responsible for that 10-1 record and they would have been replaced if they had been playing as poorly as DJ did against SC. Maybe not for the rest of the game but they would have been sat down to get their head on right, which we never even considered doing with DJ. Just kept trotting him out there to fail over and over again. I felt bad for the kid it was so embarrassing. And as we've seen already, him going to the bench wouldn't necessarily mean he was "losing his job", it just happened to turn out that way a week later when he was also terrible and his replacement (you know the one who never stepped on the field the week before) set ACC Championship game records in his first significant playing time of the season. Imagine that.
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Head Coach [768]
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Re: So if the QB was that bad...
Dec 18, 2022, 9:06 AM
[ in reply to So if the QB was that bad... ] |
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Every analyst on TV can answer that one ...everyone knew that DJ sucked...he looked OK Ina few games and a great D saved our a** most of the time...CCC got no respect on the national stage and were thrown back to the rear of the roybus because we had a dysfunctional QB...the Mike's were not turned off from the poultry debacle and they were talking clemsoning again...now it's up to Dabo to get us off and keep us off forgood...we can build a better bus than they can!
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CU Guru [1215]
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Saw it mentioned below that Cade should have started vs. USuC.
Dec 17, 2022, 4:05 PM
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I’m not sure many are saying Cade should have started the game but he definitely should have started the 4th quarter. It was more than obvious DJ didn’t have “it” going for him. It was another off day much like Syracuse.
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All-TigerNet [10486]
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Because we would have beaten our rival and made the Semi-Pro
Dec 17, 2022, 5:22 PM
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football playoffs.
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Orange Blooded [3336]
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Re: Saw it mentioned below that Cade should have started vs. USuC.
Dec 17, 2022, 8:14 PM
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Those stats are lying to you. Watching those games, there was nothing "dominate" about DJ's performance.
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Orange Blooded [4069]
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DJ should have started…
Dec 17, 2022, 11:33 PM
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But after DJ got hurt…… And you saw his passing ability deteriorate in the second half…… No doubt Cade should’ve come in.
You used Cade to save the Syracuse game, why not here?
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CU Guru [1215]
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Re: DJ should have started…
Dec 19, 2022, 10:41 AM
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If DJ was true Tiger after getting hurt he would have pulled himself out the game at least few series after being hurt. To get some medical treatment then maybe comeback in.
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110%er [6905]
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Shouldn’t have started, but certainly should have been inserted in the second half.***
Dec 18, 2022, 8:45 AM
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Asst Coach [701]
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Re: Shouldn’t have started, but certainly should have been inserted in the second half.***
Dec 18, 2022, 10:38 AM
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Cade said himself on national tv that he had not practiced with the one’s since fall camp. How are you going to get him better and “be ready” if you don’t give him snaps with the ones in practice. All we kept hearing is he wasn’t ready. So, when Dabo says they tried to get him to take over in the Notre Dame game you have to wonder how Cade was expected to take over when he had no snaps with the ones in practice and he was put in down by at least 14 points and on his on 7 yard line. Cade said he got 30% of the snaps with the ones in practice before the North Carolina game and you could see what happened. It appears to me that Dabo never really wanted everyone to see how good Cade was until he absolutely had to. That’s just my opinion and I love Dabo and what he has done for Clemson but you have to wonder what the hell was going on.
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CU Guru [1215]
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Re: Shouldn’t have started, but certainly should have been inserted in the second half.***
Dec 19, 2022, 10:37 AM
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He should have differently started second half of Rooster game. Dabo comment about only giving Cade one chance against vs ND is little nuts since next series replaced with DJ pick 6. But okay with that let DJ play to the end.
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CU Guru [1215]
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Re: Saw it mentioned below that Cade should have started vs. USuC.
Dec 19, 2022, 10:34 AM
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Actually Cade should have started entire second half of ND game. We would have one game and he would have started rest season. We'd be in playoffs now.
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