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Replies: 54
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Editor [∞]
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TNET: Brownell speaks to head of ACC officials about Duke game, doesn't regret comments on officiating
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Jan 29, 2024, 10:55 AM
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Orange Blooded [2000]
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I miss Rick Barnes' attitude***
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Jan 29, 2024, 10:58 AM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: I miss Rick Barnes' attitude***
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Jan 29, 2024, 7:07 PM
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He was our last great hope. I was in Greensboro, at the ACC tournament, when he went right after Dean Smith when Dean was jawing directly to one of our players about fouling too hard, because of course the boys in baby blue deserve to be handled gently. I distinctly remember him confronting Dean and said “you don’t talk to my players.” That’s the kind of backbone you need to get out of the basement. Also, it’s worth noting that Dean apologized after the game and said he regretted his actions. That’s how you gain respect.
Can we please get a new coach? Beating Carolina alone just doesn’t make a rewarding season. There’s no reason that we don’t have the resources to regularly make the NCAA tournament. If you’re not doing everything you can to create a winning program, why even have one at all? Best is clearly not the standard for Clemson basketball.
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CU Medallion [64591]
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Here's a thought...
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Jan 29, 2024, 11:01 AM
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when you have a 4-point lead with under two minutes to play, don't turn the ball over on your next three possessions.
Maybe that's just me!
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Starter [372]
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Re: Here's a thought...
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Jan 29, 2024, 11:08 AM
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I guess that’s on Brad too. Recruited bad players.
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Orange Blooded [4095]
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Re: Here's a thought...
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Jan 29, 2024, 11:25 AM
[ in reply to Here's a thought... ] |
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We're never going to get those calls.
We never have.
We've driven like that and it's a no call and a turnover.
You have to expect it.
The two turnovers without getting a shot off were the issue at the end of the game.
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All-American [595]
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Re: Here's a thought...
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Jan 29, 2024, 2:57 PM
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You might expect it because we’re a no basketball history program, but BB has every right to call out the favoritism. You know if that was us at home against Duke we’d NEVER have gotten that call.
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CU Guru [1162]
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Keep pointing out the obvious since thats what you are best at
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Jan 29, 2024, 11:28 AM
[ in reply to Here's a thought... ] |
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Doesn’t change the fact Hall was robbed of an opportunity at the end.
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CU Medallion [64591]
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Here's the thing Captain Obvious...
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Jan 29, 2024, 12:30 PM
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Not scoring in the final two minutes of the game doesn't exactly equate to being robbed. Take advantage of those opportunities and you avoid the officials being a factor in a close game.
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All-In [44054]
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What game did you watch?
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Jan 29, 2024, 1:38 PM
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We scored in the last two minutes of the game.
In fact, PJ hit two very clutch free throws late in the game.
That's taking advantage of opportunities. In fact, he created the opportunity.
That isn't choking, and it isn't "playing tight" like others here have said.
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CU Medallion [64591]
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You're suggesting the main reason Clemson lost that game...
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Jan 29, 2024, 1:53 PM
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was because of poor officiating. I'm not saying there weren't some poor calls, but I couldn't disagree more that officiating was the main reason.
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All-In [44054]
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No, I'm not suggesting it.
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Jan 29, 2024, 2:08 PM
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I'm saying it as bluntly as possible.
I've never felt that way about a game before, but the officiating in this game was so horrible that I do feel that it was the main determining factor in the outcome.
And no, I'm not saying that there aren't plenty of things that we could've done better. There certainly were. But we played well enough to win, and should've won if not for the officiating.
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CU Medallion [64591]
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I will say this...
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Jan 29, 2024, 3:43 PM
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Tim Bourret, who I know and respect, said the game was one of the worst officiated games that he has seen in his 46 years of covering Clemson basketball.
To put that in perspective, as long as I have known Tim, I don't recall him ever, not once, complaining about or criticizing the officiating.
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CU Guru [1256]
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Re: You're suggesting the main reason Clemson lost that game...
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Jan 29, 2024, 2:10 PM
[ in reply to You're suggesting the main reason Clemson lost that game... ] |
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It is the main reason. I want Brad gone but not because of games like Saturday. The technical foul in the 1st half. PJ getting beat up all game but nothing being called. And don't let the your hate of Brad make you believe for 1 second that if those turnovers happen on the other end with Duke winning, we wouldn't be called for reaching in.
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Walk-On [117]
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Re: You're suggesting the main reason Clemson lost that game...
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Jan 29, 2024, 6:48 PM
[ in reply to You're suggesting the main reason Clemson lost that game... ] |
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Your take is weak and detached from reality.
No team has ever played an error free game.
If the only time a team is permitted to call out bad officiating is when they play perfectly, then, by definition, bad officiating will never be called out.
Let’s be clear: the officiating was #### poor. It affected the outcome of the game despite our errors.
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Trainer [27]
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Re: Here's the thing Captain Obvious...
Jan 29, 2024, 8:47 PM
[ in reply to Here's the thing Captain Obvious... ] |
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If official weren't a factor would have been ahead by enough that turnovers would not have mattered. But that never going to happen at duke or tarholes. Never has.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Here's a thought...
Jan 29, 2024, 11:28 AM
[ in reply to Here's a thought... ] |
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Did you read the article?
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Hall of Famer [22740]
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Re: Here's a thought...
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Jan 29, 2024, 1:06 PM
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Did you read the article? Brad said we made some mistakes ourselves. It is possible that both the poor officiating and our own mistakes contributed to the loss.
He also said it’s time to get on to Louisville. Sounds like a good idea to me.
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All-In [44054]
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No one has ever said that we played a flawless game.
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Jan 29, 2024, 1:43 PM
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We obviously made mistakes, but the main reason we lost was because of poor officiating.
If you disagree, then I suggest you rewatch the game, and anytime a foul is called on Clemson, slow it down to 1/2 or 1/4 speed. You'll see that many of those fouls called were not actually fouls.
If you're lazy, just do this on the last two plays of the game. The first is the phantom foul called on Josh Beadle. The second is the 3/4 court pass after that, where we were tackled and nothing was called on Duke.
We shouldn't have to play a near-perfect game to overcome officiating. I know it's not typically an issue when we play at Duke, regardless of who our coach is, but it has been an issue several times there under Brownell. The most egregious was this past Saturday.
I don't see how any true Clemson fan could be anything other than irate at the officials for the outcome. Blaming our coaches and players for this loss should be anathema to you.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: No one has ever said that we played a flawless game.
Jan 29, 2024, 2:32 PM
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Because crying about the referees is something South Carolina fans do.
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Trainer [27]
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Re: No one has ever said that we played a flawless game.
Jan 29, 2024, 8:50 PM
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ACC refs have been bad in basketball since league started. Especially at duke.
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Hall of Famer [22740]
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Re: No one has ever said that we played a flawless game.
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Jan 29, 2024, 3:08 PM
[ in reply to No one has ever said that we played a flawless game. ] |
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I’m saying the same thing Coach Brownell is saying. I was totally irate about the officiating, but I also know we had some turnovers and other issues that didn’t help our cause either. I’m not big on placing blame but if you must do that, there was enough to go around. We were very close to winning that game in spite of the horrible officiating. And I feel worse for Schieffelin than anyone on the team. This kid has played his tail off all year and to have the turnovers at the end of the game has to be just tearing him up. On the first one after his rebound under the Duke basket, the guard (I think it was Chase) could have done a better job of coming to the ball and shielding off the defender. And no one coming to the ball on the next 2 trips down the court forcing Ian to throw 30-35 ft passes didn’t give him much help either. Those passes were a defensive player’s dream.
I disagree on the last call against Beadle, but hear me out. He did foul the guy on the arm. But it never should have been called because the Duke player pushed off and travelled before the foul occurred.
The call when PJ got tackled on the inbounds rarely gets made, but in this case it should have been since they had just called the ticky-tac call on Beadle.
The technical in the first half was awful and in the next 8-10 minutes the refs made every bad call against us they could. It is obvious the game was going to be called in Duke’s favor from that point on. It not fair, but the only way to win a game like that is to play so well that the refs cannot make up the difference. Unfortunately that was just one basket more than we could do Saturday.
So at this point, nothing else can be done to change it, and it needs to be put in the rear view and the focus needs to go to Louisville, just like Coach B said.
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Walk-On [117]
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CU Guru [1464]
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We should not have left the game in the officials hands.
Jan 30, 2024, 9:48 PM
[ in reply to No one has ever said that we played a flawless game. ] |
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We could have put that game away several times but we turned it over and did commit a couple of stupid foils. But yes, the officiating was one sided the entire game.
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All-In [38124]
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Re: Here's a thought...
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Jan 29, 2024, 1:32 PM
[ in reply to Here's a thought... ] |
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BINGO!!! Then you don't have to blame the officials.
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All-In [44054]
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Did you say the same thing when we played Maryland in football in 1985?
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Jan 29, 2024, 1:34 PM
[ in reply to Here's a thought... ] |
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I bet not.
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CU Medallion [64591]
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You're comparing apples and oranges...
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Jan 29, 2024, 1:46 PM
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but I'll play along. Terrible call by the officials at the end of the game, but Danny's team didn't turn the ball over on its last three possessions either.
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All-In [44054]
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Yes, it is apples and oranges.
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Jan 29, 2024, 2:14 PM
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The poor officiating on Saturday against Duke was FAR worse than anything we encountered at Maryland that day (or at any point in our football history over the past 50 years).
But back to our game Saturday: why are you boiling the game down to the last few possessions? This isn't just about the last minute or two of the game. This is about an entire game littered with horrible calls (and non-calls).
The bogus technical foul on Clark in the first half, as well as multiple fouls called on PJ and Ian in the post in the first half when they did nothing but stand their ground with their hands up in the air, all helped determine the outcome. So did the play in the second half when Girard was tackled and no foul was called. Ditto for the last play of the game when our guys were pushed down and no foul was called.
Of course, the ultimate horrible officiating call was the foul on Beadle on Duke's last possession. Not only did he not foul the Duke player, but the Duke player traveled AND pushed off on Beadle TWICE. It should've been an offensive foul, but at minimum it should've been a no call.
Blaming our team in this situation for the loss makes it sound like you would rather blame Brownell and our players than support our team by calling out horrendous officiating. I don't get that.
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Legend [16917]
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Re: Yes, it is apples and oranges.
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Jan 29, 2024, 2:20 PM
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I went back and watched the supposed “Girard tackle” everybody has benn hyperventilating about. Schieffelin pushes Filopowski from behind and at angle with his left hand (it’s clearly visible on the replay) as he’s going up for the ball. His right hand is not clearly visible but the angle it takes as he goes up for the ball appear as though he is shoving with both hands prior to going up for the ball. Thats why he “tackled” Girard - because he was shoved into him. So stop being a baby.
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Hall of Famer [22740]
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What is apples and oranges is what happened and your version of the game
Jan 29, 2024, 3:39 PM
[ in reply to Yes, it is apples and oranges. ] |
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I agree that the officiating was awful but you making things up as you go along really doesn’t help your point. You said “The bogus technical foul on Clark in the first half, as well as multiple fouls called on PJ and Ian in the post in the first half when they did nothing but stand their ground with their hands up in the air, all helped determine the outcome.” The technical was totally bogus, but Ian only had one foul called against him in the first half and PJ had none. What did happen was that PJ and Ian were each called for 3 fouls in the last 5:32 of the game. This fouled Ian out of the game and put PJ ending the game with 4. With 5:32 left in the game we were tied at 59 and Duke was in the bonus. These fouls quickly put them into the double bonus and helped put Duke at the free throw line 33 times to our 22 for the game. Duke attempted 13 free throws in the last 5:32 and we attempted 6 (the multiple turnovers didn’t help us here either). If you want to complain about the officiating (and again, it was horrible) at least get the facts straight instead of making things up that sound good to try to fit them into your narrative as usual.
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All-In [44054]
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The point about fouls called on PJ and Ian applies for the whole game.***
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Jan 29, 2024, 4:03 PM
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Hall of Famer [22740]
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Re: The point about fouls called on PJ and Ian applies for the whole game.***
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Jan 29, 2024, 4:08 PM
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The quote was “ multiple fouls called on PJ and Ian in the post in the first half when they did nothing but stand their ground with their hands up in the air, all helped determine the outcome.” and it was factually incorrect, as you have a habit of being when you are trying to make a point.
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110%er [5262]
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I know what you are saying.....
Jan 29, 2024, 2:17 PM
[ in reply to Here's a thought... ] |
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but our turnovers just made a conniving ref's job a little easier. Two standards were set for the low post players early and set in stone for the entire game. Then two standards for the guards were set and in place for the entire game. And it showed in the last two minutes, and last seven seconds, as well.
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CU Guru [1427]
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Re: Here's a thought...
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Jan 29, 2024, 2:32 PM
[ in reply to Here's a thought... ] |
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Even with the turnovers we win with a semi fairly called game.
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CU Medallion [55430]
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Re: Here's a thought...
Jan 29, 2024, 5:49 PM
[ in reply to Here's a thought... ] |
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It's definitely me also, and I'm pretty sure those are the feeling of most Tiger fans. If our guys would have gone for more points it would have taken more time off the clock even if we didn't score, and Duke wouldn't have had a chance to get even much less go ahead of of us with the score. Who ever made the decision to play keep away, they made a terrible end of game decision bc it gave Duke 3 separate chances to steal the ball away and score all in 1:30 seconds!!! They were stealing the ball and scoring so fast that it hardly took any time off the clock, and none of that was the fault of the Refs, it was the coach's fault, pure and simple!!!
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Walk-On [117]
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Re: Here's a thought...
Jan 29, 2024, 6:49 PM
[ in reply to Here's a thought... ] |
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Yes. It’s just you.
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Orange Blooded [2034]
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Lol... everyone over the age of 8
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Jan 29, 2024, 11:29 AM
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knew that the officials called the foul on Dook, with 7 seconds remaining, so that Clemson could shoot the 2 foul shots. Once Clemson went ahead the officials were going to call a foul on Clemson no matter what happened. I swear, unless Clemson is ahead by 20 with 10 seconds to go in the national championship game, I will never watch another Clemson men's basketball game....
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110%er [6982]
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Re: Lol... everyone over the age of 8
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Jan 29, 2024, 11:41 AM
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^^^^^ This is correct, there’s no way Clemson was going to not be called for a foul unless the players just stood there with their hands at their sides. Brownell should know this and should’ve had a game plan for it. Foul Duke on the inbounds and get the last shot. That’s the only opportunity you had.
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CU Guru [1074]
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Ummmmm
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Jan 29, 2024, 11:30 AM
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Brownell “We was robbed!”
Also Brownell “But I’m ok with that”
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110%er [5084]
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"I do think there were mistakes made and that's OK."
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Jan 29, 2024, 11:42 AM
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I tend to side with the take care of the ball and the refs wouldnt have been a deciding factor. We gave them the ability to commit obviously biased calls, er, I mean mistakes that changed the outcome of the game.
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Scout Team [151]
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Was it bad calls or missed opportunites?
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Jan 29, 2024, 11:40 AM
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Yes, numerous bad calls for sure, but also numerous opportunities to win too. More than a few. We missed more opportunities than there were bad calls, so imho bad calls didn't cost us that game. Long scoring droughts don't help either. In the waning moments of a game, having the ball stolen on the inbounds speaks volumes about coaching, focus, intensity and basketball IQ. We are lacking in all areas.
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Legend [16262]
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Re: Was it bad calls or missed opportunites?
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Jan 29, 2024, 11:46 AM
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Yeah - not scoring a single field goal in the final two minutes of the game doesn't exactly equate to being robbed. Certainly missed opportunities to avoid officials being a factor in a close game.
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CU Medallion [64591]
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All-In [30460]
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We are never going to get those calls at Duke or North Carolina so how about
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Jan 29, 2024, 12:23 PM
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We get a coach who can make sure we’re up 10 at the end of the game
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MVP [508]
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Re: We are never going to get those calls at Duke or North Carolina so how about
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Jan 29, 2024, 12:37 PM
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Game was actually lost in first twelve minutes of second half when referees mad sure that Duke got into the bonus position early on foul shots, then it seemed like every time a Duke player drove to the basket a foul would be called even when on at least two occasions replays confirmed no touch at all. And announcers stayed silent on those and did not comment! Also so tired of announcers at every Duke game televised giving unfair favor to Duke at the expense of the opposition!
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110%er [5262]
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Agreed, this is the part that the ref apologists...
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Jan 29, 2024, 2:20 PM
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fail to see.
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CU Medallion [61846]
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I am a Clemson fan.
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Jan 29, 2024, 1:06 PM
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I am a Clemson basketball follower. I do not watch nor listen to the Clemson basketball games as I believe I am bad luck for Clemson. I DO follow the score and progression of the game online.
Otherwise, I am a casual basketball watcher. I am quite well aware of the obvious bias of the ACC officiating favoring the Devils and Goats. And, I do believe it is NOT a conspiracy theory. It is real.
That is why I delight in the NCAA Tournament when those two teams don't get favored calls and get their comeuppance.
Go Tigers! Beat the teethed Birds from Horseland!
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Orange Blooded [3977]
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Re: TNET: Brownell speaks to head of ACC officials about Duke game,
Jan 29, 2024, 2:02 PM
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No need to back down from the comments, it is very much true for the most part. But those 3 ridiculous turnovers by Shef down the stretch did us in. If you don't want the refs to do what they do there, then you better be up multiple possessions in the final 30 secs
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All-In [44054]
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It's nice to have a coach who stands up for his team.
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Jan 29, 2024, 2:20 PM
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It's rare that we have a coach do that. Rick Barnes did that some, but not to the extent Brad has, plus Rick took his marbles and went home rather than stick it out with Clemson.
Of course, the "fans" here talk glowingly about how Rick stood up to the officials and somehow find a way to bash Brad for doing it.
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Orange Blooded [2000]
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Brad hasn't stood up for ####. You're delusional***
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Jan 29, 2024, 2:24 PM
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Legend [16262]
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Joined: 11/14/09
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Brad has one single Technical foul in his career here.
Jan 29, 2024, 8:05 PM
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That's it. If you're truly standing up for your team, you would show it more during a game when it matters and are getting folks' attention, when you're looking a ref in the eye, not afterwards when you're sitting in front of a mic and it's over and you're sour grumbling.
"You'll see. I'm going to report you to the principal."
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Hall of Famer [24579]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 15130
Joined: 2/13/15
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Legend [17626]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 11052
Joined: 10/13/08
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I would have liked for Brad to have been more aggressive toward the refs.
1
Jan 29, 2024, 4:40 PM
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Lord knows, Coach K and Roy did it. Of all the times the camera showed Brad talking to the officials, never once did he look like he was about to pop a blood vessel. Kudos for not getting teed up, but work the officials harder.
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Legend [17312]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7071
Joined: 12/14/98
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I wish he had not referred to the bad calls as "mistakes"
Jan 30, 2024, 12:06 AM
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If bad officiating for Clemson in Cameron were the result of mistakes, the bad calls would not almost always go against Clemson. Random mistakes would be more likely to even out. Those calls are intentional bias in favor to Duke, not mistakes.
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Orange Blooded [4096]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 5219
Joined: 10/23/10
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I'm tired of the ACC ...
Jan 30, 2024, 10:53 AM
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Lets try something different. How about the SEC ? Heck, B12 ... Be kinda cool playing somebody different
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Replies: 54
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