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Sports will not always be here
Tiger Boards - Clemson Football
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Replies: 14
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Sports will not always be here

4

Feb 1, 2024, 2:38 PM
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I read what Scott Van Pelt had to say about how college football/sports NIL is not sustainable and i agree with him like alot of people probably do.

However I started thinking how old are most of the modern sports, i was surprised to learn modern soccer is not that old 1863, baseball the oldest american sport 1876, football 1869 (college pre dates pro football) so you could argue college football is the oldest and most popular major sport in america. James Naismith a canadian-american christian invented basketball at the university of Kansas for the purpose of physical fitness.

As far as the oldest sports (known) overall wrestling and running about 5 thousand years ago.

Sports has been great fun in my lifetime and alot of that is clemson sports, but i believe sports in general not just college/NIL has reached a tipping point, i kind of see it as a gross excess, a symptom of a roman style empire in collapse, meaning its just so out of touch with reality it feels wrong giving too much energy to it. I think its important to remember not only is the product in our face unsustainable but is it worth saving at this point, for most of human history these sports never existed and they may go away even in some of our lifetimes depending on world circumstances as hard as it is too imagine.

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But sports have always been with us.

1

Feb 1, 2024, 2:50 PM
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The type of sport has changed but we've always had some sort of physical competiton, regardless of culture.

We may not always have football, but we will always have sports.

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Speaking entirely for myself...


Feb 1, 2024, 3:11 PM
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my life would have been vastly different if not for sports (both playing and watching).

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: Sports will not always be here


Feb 1, 2024, 3:51 PM
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dramatic take.

The game will change but we will always have sports

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using the Roman Empire topic about sports. Some of my friends talk

2

Feb 1, 2024, 3:57 PM
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about how sports and mostly football feels like the elites way distracting the uneducated masses from what they really are trying to do and the power grabs (Today's liberals, republicans who love their jobs/power and socialist, WEF, social credit scores etc). I believe there is some real truth to this to some level, and this is coming from someone where sports has been one of the most important things in my life (played multiple sports in high school and college, coached at the power 5 level in college, wife was a college athlete and college coach, kids being recruited at the D1 level as well). I know some of ya'll will hate this comment but I really don't mean it to be attacking anyone's political views, just history does repeat itself and we Americans love the arena and what better way to keep our focus away.

THe NCAA really messed up with NIL and not trying to get Presidents on board on how to handel it all and letting TV contracts divide College sports. eveyone should be allow to make money off their name, period and hard stop, but there has to be away to keep certain schools from having a competitive advantage over the rest of the country. They should have had some vision and got out in front of all this. Only thing that will happen now is massive change will happen and the amateur sport we all loved is really about to change forever, right or wrong.

Again forgive me, I'm not attacking anyones views

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Re: using the Roman Empire topic about sports. Some of my friends talk

1

Feb 1, 2024, 4:07 PM
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NIL has increased parity across the board.

It was the old system where everything was done under the table that gave the elite the advantage.

Now a player can go to Colorado and legally make money off of their name where as before they had to go to a big school with big pockets.

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A positive distraction in some cases though you could argue


Feb 1, 2024, 4:12 PM [ in reply to using the Roman Empire topic about sports. Some of my friends talk ]
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Sports can be a stand in for national/regional pride and natural aggression through competition that used to be served in forms of wars and skirmishes. That is now more often done through big time sport like at the World Cup or Olympics etc.

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Re: Sports will not always be here

2

Feb 1, 2024, 4:00 PM
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Really a thoughtful post, so thank you for that.

I don't really visit TNet all that much anymore as I have reached an interesting time in my life in my mid-30s with small children but did spend much of my 20s chasing the roller coaster of Tigers Football finally climbing the mountain top. That said, your post really resonates with me in a very deep way.

I can only speak for myself, and what I am seeing is an arms race, driven by school administrators to bring excess to our educational institutions outside of the main reason that these institutions exist. While I do see the importance of school athletics, I often feel that we have lost sight of the fact that our educational institutions are above all, meant to prepare our students to be functioning, additive members of society.

Back in 2018 (Pre-2020s inflation) my brother-in-law and I were sitting around looking at a comparison of the rising costs of items in society compared to the CPI from 1989 to 2018, which was just in excess of 100%, i.e. $1 in 1989 has the same buying power as ~$2 in 2018. As you would expect, food, housing, etc., increased at a reasonable rate above inflation, but the staggering stat was that college education had increased over 4X in just under 30 years. Why? Are the professors more qualified? Is the library bigger? Has the campus been completely overhauled? I don't masquerade as an expert of collegiate economics, but I can 100% attest to the fact that I lived in the same crummy dorm in 2008 that my uncle occupied in the mid-70s. I attended calculus classes in the same ugly buidling (Martin) where my mom studied actuarial science in the 70s, yet my tuition was maybe 6-times as expensive as my mother paid. (I recognize that there have been a great deal of new buildings since I graduated, and do not take this lightly but bear with me).

I do recognize that collegiate athletics can be a catalyst for many universities to attract a higher echelon of student (see Florida/Alabama/Texas in particular in the trailing 20 years), I also recognize that the influx of capital that is tangentially related to sports can filter to academia. But I see these new athletic facilities and have very sour emotions. Is this really what is needed at our educational institutions?

Bringing this tangent back to my point, with all that changed on college campuses, the glut that no one seems to get worked up about is the added number of college administrators. Assistant Deans, Executive and Administrative Assistants, different departments that are justified in the name of this cause or that cause. Support staff out the wazoo that never teach any of our students, and finally, turing our colleges into country clubs with every amenity imaginable. These are the real reasons that education is becoming less and less affordable and somewhat why I see the amount of glut put into athletics and have a similar reaction that comes back to one question: Are these people and is this spending better preparing our young people to achieve and innovate to move society forward?

TL/DR: Does spending on athletics, and employing more and more support staff at an academic institution partially at the expense of the students, better prepare our young people for society after college?

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Re: Sports will not always be here

3

Feb 1, 2024, 4:21 PM
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The proliferation of student loans is a big reason that college costs have far outpaced CPI.


"Federal student aid accounts for most of the college tuition increases between 1987 and 2010, according to the National Bureau of Economic Research. It’s simple. The more money students can borrow, the more colleges are able to charge. They are playing off the government’s ability to offer student loans to anyone who qualifies. So, who can qualify for federal student loans? Every college student in the U.S.!

Over the last few decades, the amount of aid available to students has increased dramatically. Subsidized loans expanded greatly, and guess what else–unsubsidized loans also came into existence. But looking at the big picture, does that money offset the costs to students? Researchers say no, absolutely not. It had the reverse effect.

Instead, colleges increased tuition even more because they know federal financial aid can cover the difference. With this kind of setup, college students and their families are at the mercy of the federal government and colleges everywhere. Student aid may cover more of the tuition, but if the aid wasn’t available, tuition might not have gone up in the first place."

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Re: Sports will not always be here

2

Feb 1, 2024, 4:24 PM [ in reply to Re: Sports will not always be here ]
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I suspect it has something to do with full profs, asst. profs, and associate profs not teaching nearly as many classes as 50 years ago. A lot of that is now delegated to adjuncts and TA's while profs write and research. Also, as lottery funds increase, so does tuition. States cut funds and again, tuition increases . Student loans are given out like candy and tuition goes up again. Students get 4.0's and everyone's fat and happy except parents and grandparents. Such is life.

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Re: Sports will not always be here

2

Feb 1, 2024, 4:32 PM
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I think what will happen, but not soon enough, colleges will take collegiate sports out of the college education system mainly bc of the crime that is going to follow the NIL big bucks that college kids will be paid. But

basically, the same level of sport will be done as simi pro sports where HS kids can leave HS and play in a simi pro league not connected to a university. What that will cause on a large scale, is kids coming out of HS sports about 10 times dumber bc they won't keep their grades up the way they have to do to play collegiate sports. Plus there won't be any more athletic scholarships, and when the simi pro or pro sports are over for whatever the reason, they won't have a college education to fall back on, but that fault we be on who ever filed the lawsuit over them not being paid, and that is going to hurt a lot more athletes than it would have ever helped, mostly bc specialty players get paid, or very elite players....

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Re: Sports will not always be here

1

Feb 1, 2024, 4:59 PM
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I could see all of that.

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Re: Sports will not always be here

2
1

Feb 1, 2024, 4:52 PM
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It will be here as long as anyone alive on Earth now is alive, as well as probably their great grandchildren. Maybe wars, an asteroid, or disease might end them. Other than that, there is no end in sight. Maybe the need for most going to college might end which may change things. Who knows? Sports are here for the foreseeable future.

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Astute post & following posts on subject Ive tendered here

2

Feb 1, 2024, 5:23 PM
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which is our university’s are being wagged by the Athletic Dept (football being the $ maker & bill payer).

Saying, the earliest on campus sports, aka football, were Clubs and the student simply joined the Club to play the sport..but then $ and state & regional bragging rights followed and boom, the University saw a way to make $ by using the Club sport team to lure in new students and here’s what we are 150 years later..

with Dabo & Athletic Dept having the biggest & newest buildings (aka stadium & practice center & offices) on campus and his total pay wharfs the base salary of Clemson’s President.

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Re: Sports will not always be here


Feb 1, 2024, 8:25 PM
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Lacrosse is the oldest team sport in North America, it was known as the Creators game by Native Americans. Tribal disputes were settled by the game, often playing from village to village and deaths were not that uncommon. The modern rules of field lacrosse were established about the same time as our most popular team sports, post war between the states. Spalding, Wilson, and Rawlings could mass produce baseball, football, and basketball equipment thus making them wildly popular in the early part of the 20th century. Lacrosse equipment, particularly the wooden sticks, was more difficult to manufacturer.

For those of you in the Upstate, there’s great lacrosse nearby, Anderson, Newberry, Limestone, and NGU all have good men’s programs. Watch a few games and learn it and you will see why the native Americans used it to train their braves. Many football players wouldn’t last ten minutes, it can be a brutal game with constant running. Forget what George Carlin said about it, he didn’t have a clue. The kids that go on to play in college are true student athletes and play for the love of the sport as there isn’t much money in professional field or box lacrosse. Check it out live if you can, it’s the fastest game on two feet and very entertaining.

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Replies: 14
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Tiger Boards - Clemson Football
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