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All-In [40994]
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Thanks to Obama for apoligizing for when Bush and the CIA
Dec 10, 2014, 5:33 PM
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were mean to the terrorist. Thank God it will never happen again! We have rules!
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Oculus Spirit [98338]
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Re: Thanks to Obama for apoligizing for when Bush and the CIA
Dec 10, 2014, 5:43 PM
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All-In [42743]
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If someone's not getting hummus up his ###...
Dec 10, 2014, 6:59 PM
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Then the terrorists win.
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Oculus Spirit [83384]
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Lol, you crazy man***
Dec 10, 2014, 7:25 PM
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All-In [49457]
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agreed.
Dec 10, 2014, 11:19 PM
[ in reply to If someone's not getting hummus up his ###... ] |
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seems like a fair deal vs the thousands that were in the upper floors of the World Trade Center, knowing they would not get out alive. I guess we coulda given the terrorists the option of jumping out of a 100-story window, like some of their victims.
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110%er [7013]
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Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11. Much of the torture
Dec 11, 2014, 8:17 AM
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discussions center on what happened in Iraq.
hth.
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All-In [34345]
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Re: agreed.
Dec 11, 2014, 10:49 AM
[ in reply to agreed. ] |
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Cool. So we only tortured prisoners who were involved with 9/11?
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All-In [42743]
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I agree.
Dec 11, 2014, 12:34 PM
[ in reply to agreed. ] |
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Especially the ones who hadn't done anything yet. Better to torture an innocent man just so he knows what's up!
You know the CIA fondled their privates? Awesome! 'Murica.
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Rock Defender [54]
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It amazes me that people will defend torture
Dec 11, 2014, 8:06 AM
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For one, if you read the reports, the CIA intentionally misled congress on how effective these brutal interrogation techniques are. People will say all kinds of things when they are being tortured, even if they are innocent.
I'm not sure about you, but I am not comfortable with the government being allowed to torture people. If they will do it to them they can do it to you. It would surprise me if they haven't already tortured american citizens.
And before you attack me because I'm being "soft" on the terrorists. I'm not saying I feel bad for actual terrorist who were tortured. I do however feel bad for people who WERE NOT INVOLVED that were being tortured and again, i'm not comfortable with the idea that our government would torture people.
So if these techniques aren't effective, why exactly are you defending it?
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All-TigerNet [10207]
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How do you feel about hell fire missiles and drones killing
Dec 11, 2014, 8:42 AM
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innocent bystanders that just happen to live in the line of fire.
To me, the 3 that were water boarded were know terrorist. If you believe what this expensive report is trying to say right before democrats leave their command then you should also listen to those in the intelligence community that say why they did what they did. Listen to what they were facing and the intel they were receiving and what they were facing.
The terrorists that were interrogated are still alive and well. Many have been released and are back to their criminal ways of killing and plotting to kill innocent people.
I doubt they are working in anything productive except committing more terrorist acts.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: How do you feel about hell fire missiles and drones killing
Dec 11, 2014, 8:55 AM
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The report states that up to 26 detainees were wrongfully held. That is a huge issue and i'm not sure how you could defend that. Also, do you think these interrogations are effective? Or does that fact just not matter to you? As long as some of the terrorist suffer alongside the innocent, that is cool with you?
As far as hell fire missiles and drone strikes. Of course there are always going to be collateral damage. But I feel that the drone strikes are also poorly managed and they fire away way to easily on some bad information. I think that needs some cleaning up as well.
I think the problem here is that you see this as "hey they are terrorist, #### 'em". Yeah I agree with you if you look at it solely on that point. The point that is being argued here is not that terrorist are being treated poorly but that the GOVERNMENT IS TORTURING PEOPLE. I can't believe that just slides of your back, they should not have that power.
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All-TigerNet [10207]
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Re: How do you feel about hell fire missiles and drones killing
Dec 11, 2014, 9:14 AM
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So you would ask them what there plans are , thank them for whatever they say a return them to the battle field despite their attack
on America where they killed innocent people.
Heck no, they started this war and I don't mind if we use methods to prevent other attacks.
This is obviously a political battle, left against right.
I wish none of this happened and the twin towers and all the people that died in those buildings were still alive and well.
I also wish we did not need to send troops to kill terrorist. But it happened. We were attacked. Who wants that on our soil again?
A meet and greet doesn't solve this type of problem.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: How do you feel about hell fire missiles and drones killing
Dec 11, 2014, 9:26 AM
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> So you would ask them what there plans are , thank them for whatever they say a return them to the battle field despite their attack
on America where they killed innocent people.
Where did I say that? No of course you don't have to let them go, but you certainly don't have to torture them.
> Heck no, they started this war and I don't mind if we use methods to prevent other attacks
Again, let me state as clearly as I can. Do these methods prevent other attacks? If so, please show me because I don't see the stats. I will gladly change my mind if these tactics are actually keeping America safer and preventing further attacks. I don't believe this to be the case though.
> This is obviously a political battle, left against right.
Are political pundits using it that way? Of course, politicians are scumbags. But this conversation between you and I is not a political battle. Where did I attack your right wing beliefs? I don't care who's in charge, I don't want them to have the power to torture people.
> I wish none of this happened and the twin towers and all the people that died in those buildings were still alive and well.
I also wish we did not need to send troops to kill terrorist. But it happened. We were attacked. Who wants that on our soil again?
A meet and greet doesn't solve this type of problem.
I completely agree with your sentiments here. I wish we could exactly target each of the "bad guys" and take them out. But that is not reality. I'm also not naive and realize there will always be collateral damage. But, torturing people is a different subject from Indiscriminately killing people on the battlefield with drone strikes or similar.
Torture is completely avoidable and if I understand the stats correctly they don't help anything anyway. This isn't the movies.
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All-TigerNet [10207]
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You don't know what you are talking about.
Dec 11, 2014, 9:33 AM
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Here you are criticizing our troops and intelligence agencies from keeping us as safe as possible.
You can select to believe it was wrong if you like... I'm glad we have folks with balls that are trying to protect us and prevent other attacks.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: You don't know what you are talking about.
Dec 11, 2014, 9:54 AM
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> Here you are criticizing our troops and intelligence agencies from keeping us as safe as possible.
No, I am not. I'm criticizing certain tactics that are being used that aren't even working.
Hate to break it to you but our intelligence agencies clearly don't always have our best interests at heart. Another close agency to the CIA is the NSA, you know the one that routinely invades our privacy in clear violation of the constitution. But who cares as long as we are all safe right? Why don't they just install some cameras in all of our homes just to make sure we aren't hiding terrorist. We have nothing to hide right!?
> You can select to believe it was wrong if you like... I'm glad we have folks with balls that are trying to protect us and prevent other attacks.
Ok, so if I state that I don't think we should torture people because A.) it's wrong and B.) it doesn't seem to work. Then "I don't know what i'm talking about"
But you can just say stuff like this with no argument?
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Trainer [41]
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Re: It amazes me that people will defend torture
Dec 11, 2014, 9:24 AM
[ in reply to It amazes me that people will defend torture ] |
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Amazing that you think you know the techniques were not effective. Where did you get that? From some liberal democrat that said it or possibly john mcain who speaks from his own personal experience? I respect mcain but he knows nothing about what the CIA got or not. Ana what Americans do you suspect might have been tortured? So i hope ypu will find some comfort that there are some Americans that will do what is necessary to protect you and your family using whatever is necessary and that includes me
merry CHRISTMAS to you and your family.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: It amazes me that people will defend torture
Dec 11, 2014, 9:34 AM
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Hey man, I'm all ears. I can't prove the non-existence of something so if you are saying that they ARE effective, can you show me where that is the case?
> Ana what Americans do you suspect might have been tortured?
Although not Americans, the report says 26 people were wrongfully detained. This shouldn't be partial to americans. Why does america have the right to torture anybody?
We are talking about the same government who's country was attacked and then attacked the wrong freaking country in retaliation and you are telling me people are keeping america safe with torture? haha wow.
Are you going to tell me that the TSA prevents terrorist attacks next?
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All-In [28802]
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It's a partisan report...
Dec 11, 2014, 1:04 PM
[ in reply to It amazes me that people will defend torture ] |
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according to the minority of the committee. The minority withdrew from the investigation early on because they believed the AG's investigation wasn't going to be comprehensive. The findings and conclusions of the report were only approved on a partisan vote. It's interesting that this is being reported on as if an uninterested investigation was conducted when this is actually a politically fraught issue.
Take a look what the minority views of the committee were: http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/study2014/sscistudy3.pdf
Not quite the straightforward reporting that you've heard about, right?
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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All-In [34345]
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Re: It's a partisan report...
Dec 11, 2014, 1:11 PM
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A partisan group decided to stick their heads in the sand, not participate, and then criticize the study they avoided participating in?
Turnabout is fair play. Let's ignore their criticisms.
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All-In [28802]
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I'm not saying they should be ignored
Dec 11, 2014, 2:11 PM
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But that they ought to be reported on as controversial, rather than as definitive. Obviously, if the report is controversial, so are the minority views.
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All-In [34345]
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Also, the CIA responded to the report
Dec 11, 2014, 1:29 PM
[ in reply to It's a partisan report... ] |
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by acknowledging that they did a lot of things wrong, and promising never to do those things again.
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All-In [28802]
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#damagecontrol
Dec 11, 2014, 2:11 PM
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The CIA also said they thought the report was "not objective" with a "prosecutor's bent," and that it had "political motivations."
With you though, I still don't think we should ignore questions about the ethics of interrogations. But the majority's report seems to overstate its case by claiming that enhanced interrogation techniques weren't effective.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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All-In [34345]
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You and I probably view this issue similarly.***
Dec 11, 2014, 2:49 PM
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All-TigerNet [10207]
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Re:Think of the apology our next president will need to
Dec 11, 2014, 8:30 AM
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make to American citizens for the dishonorable job obama and his cronies did to our country.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re:Think of the apology our next president will need to
Dec 11, 2014, 8:56 AM
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So how far into this new president's term can we say "ok you can't just blame everything on Obama" like they do for Bush now?
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All-TigerNet [10207]
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Re:Think of the apology our next president will need to
Dec 11, 2014, 9:23 AM
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We need to fix his problems before we can recover. Are you defending his policies?
We just fell to China as the number one economy. Germany is now considered the best place to live in America.
Thats failure and one that needs to be corrected. We will continue to fail and drop as long as we have politicians leading us like the current group.
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All-TigerNet [10207]
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correction
Dec 11, 2014, 9:25 AM
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Germany is now considered the best country to live in, instead of America.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re:Think of the apology our next president will need to
Dec 11, 2014, 9:31 AM
[ in reply to Re:Think of the apology our next president will need to ] |
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> We need to fix his problems before we can recover. Are you defending his policies?
No of course not.
> We just fell to China as the number one economy. Germany is now considered the best place to live in America.
> Thats failure and one that needs to be corrected. We will continue to fail and drop as long as we have politicians leading us like the current group.
I agree that America should strive to be the best, but sometimes your best isn't good enough. Not being #1 does not mean it's a failure. That would mean that every other country in the world is a failure since they don't have the #1 economy.
Also, why don't we take a look at how Germany is pulling this off? America has a huge "wasn't built here mentality problem", looks like we should look for advice.
That all is beside the point though. You know as well as I do that the Bush administration piledrove this country into the dirt and then Obama just took it that much further. The funny this is if you point to Bush for starting this you hear "when are you gonna stop blaming bush for all your problems". Ok, that is all well and good but you know that as soon as Obama leaves, he will be blamed for all this.
I choose to blame both, because that's what happened.
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All-TigerNet [10207]
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Re:Think of the apology our next president will need to
Dec 11, 2014, 10:06 AM
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Germany studied alot of what the US did, to achieve greatness and molded with what Norway and a few others are doing.
Germany has a strong economy, low unemployment, strong sense of pride/community = happy folks.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re:Think of the apology our next president will need to
Dec 11, 2014, 10:19 AM
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I'm sure they did, now it's time for the US to learn from others because we are royally screwing it up right now. Not sure what it's going to take though as I have virtually zero faith that either of our political parties can solve this soon. We are too focused on corporations/profit of a minority of really wealthy people and not focused enough on the well being of the middle class.
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All-TigerNet [10207]
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Re:Think of the apology our next president will need to
Dec 11, 2014, 12:02 PM
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Those corporations provide for jobs. Unless you can make it as a dirt farmer, you better fix your head and understand that most of us
benefit from the paychecks those horrible profit making corporations are making. Perhaps if you are a starving artist one of those filthy ######## might buy your art work so you can pay rent.
Do you think Germany is just a bunch of starving artist?
One day you may or your spouse may be employed by a profit making corp.
What the #### is wrong with making a profit anyway?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re:Think of the apology our next president will need to
Dec 11, 2014, 4:17 PM
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Dude, I'd appreciate it if you didn't try to keep putting words in my mouth.
I did not say that corporations making a profit is wrong. I said that the guys in charge are too busy trying to pamper the big corporations and pad their own pockets to worry about the well being of the middle class.
> Perhaps if you are a starving artist one of those filthy ######## might buy your art work so you can pay rent.
What is wrong with you? Are you insinuating that I am destitute and don't have a great job? I graduated with a BSME from Clemson and I can get by just fine. Just because I don't happen to agree with your point of view doesn't make me a OWS protester with no job.
>One day you may or your spouse may be employed by a profit making corp.
I'm doing just fine in a startup as a software engineer thank you very much. I don't have a problem making a profit.
> What the #### is wrong with making a profit anyway?
Um.. nothing. But our government should be making sure that the economy is doing well for the rest of the country, not just the select group of really wealthy.
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Legend [15764]
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Legend [18310]
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Cockypock,
Dec 11, 2014, 11:27 AM
[ in reply to Re:Think of the apology our next president will need to ] |
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the next CIC will carry on with the good things that the President has begun, like building back the economy and providing the people with affordable healthcare. Happy Holidays and Go Tigers.
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Legend [16051]
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Heisman Winner [112597]
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Re: Thanks to Obama for apoligizing for when Bush and the CIA
Dec 11, 2014, 2:10 PM
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keep defending rumsfeld and cheney, it shows us how smart you are.
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