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The sacrifices offered to God by Israel never removed their sin.
General Boards - Religion & Philosophy
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The sacrifices offered to God by Israel never removed their sin.

4

May 12, 2024, 7:04 AM
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Psalms 51:

"1 (To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.) Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.

2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.

3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.

4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.

5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.

9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.

10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.

15 O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.

16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.

17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.

19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar."

David had taken Bathsheba, Uriah's wife, and impregnated her. Uriah was a soldier who was away at war. To conceal the sin David called him to return home, got him (basically) drunk and gave him permission to sleep at home with his wife. Uriah showed virtue by refusing to 'comfort,' himself while his brothers in arms fighting a hot war.

David, in further efforts to hide his sin sent him back to the theater of war even to the front lines to get him killed. The story is in 2 Samuel 11. Psalms 51 describes David's torturous guilt after the prophet Samuel pointed out the sins. Samuel had a fascinating allegory which he brought to expose David's behavior.

David prayed to restore his fellowship with God. The outline of chapter 52 is simple. Verses 1-4 plainly shows David confessing and asking God to cleanse his soul. 'I'm guilty of sinning against you for my sin against you overwhelms me.

In verses 5 David confesses that his nature is sinful, putrid and an offense to God.

Verse 6-God wants a confession of sin. David said that's how we get wisdom which, in this case, refers to the wisdom of fearing/respecting God, imo.

Verse 8 shows David's desire for the return of the joy of salvation.

Verse 9-12 are the things that God must do to return joy to us.

13-15 list the things we can do when we have the joy of The Lord. While they please God they are actually the evidence to us that we are right with Him.

16 is the straw that breaks the camel's back for anyone who thinks that the blood of animals ever washed sin away. In order for the ancient Hebrews to offer an acceptable sacrifice they first had to get right with God by confessing their sin and asking Him to forgive them.

It's the same today, confess your sin. It's painful to admit wrongness in our lives and in our hearts. By nature we all think we are good people. David, God said, 'is a man after my own heart.' For me to think that King David and I could be compared shames and embarrasses me.

I find myself easily having contempt for others. Contempt and hate are siblings and hate is equal to murder according to the teachings of Christ. I'm often impatient which is exactly doubting God, accusing Him of having bad timing...that's enough confession to make the point.

We all need remorse, confession and restoration. The Apostle Paul said, 'I die daily.' That, I believe is what he was referring to.





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Amen. The first step in becoming a believer...

4

May 12, 2024, 8:53 AM
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.... is recognizing you are a sinner. Until you do that, there is no need for a savior, much less The Savior.

Matthew 4:17 - From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”

Repent. You can't repent until you admit you are a sinner and need to repent.

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Help me out here.

4

May 12, 2024, 4:21 PM
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do I need to know all these stories and dissect the Bible? If so, why?

I know that I am a sinner. And I know that only through Christ shall I be redeemed.

I know the importance of a church community.

Why do you all dig so so deep and look for the allegories? Are you trying to convince yourself? Do you just enjoy it?

I find it extremely difficult to dissect and to be honest, I don’t have the time. Maybe it’s cause many of you are retired, bored and scared of death?

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Re: Help me out here.

3

May 12, 2024, 5:36 PM
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I have to give you a thumbs up

I think that might be one of them signs of the end times lol

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Abolish Qualified Immunity


All you said is right, imo.

2

May 12, 2024, 6:16 PM [ in reply to Help me out here. ]
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Knowing that you are a sinner, redeemed only through Jesus, is a gift. It is all anyone needs to know. It is all I need to know.

Some people enjoy understanding the truth behind all that is in bible, if only to discuss such things with those who do not understand, few of whom ever will. But that's okay, too. God sent Paul, Timothy and Titus to the gentiles, Peter more to the Jews. Either is fine, whatever God has for each of us. You are a follower of Jesus: nothing else matters.

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Re: Help me out here.

2

May 12, 2024, 8:48 PM [ in reply to Help me out here. ]
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Maybe it's because we love God and His Word.

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Re: Help me out here.

2

May 12, 2024, 10:41 PM [ in reply to Help me out here. ]
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I do it for a few reasons:

1) I like all things history
2) I'm fascinated by the way the human mind works
3) In my own personal journey to understand existence, I'm always looking for clues that other people, current and past, may have that can enlighten me.

For instance, you mentioned sin, and sin is interpreted differently in many religions. In some the concept doesn't even exist at all. In Judaism, it's worse to sin against a fellow man than against God. God can forgive you for sins against him, but not even God can forgive you for sins against a fellow man, unless you ask the man's forgiveness first. That's sometimes interpreted to unexpected extremes:

"The punishment for the person who uses false measures is greater than the punishment for sexual behavior, for [the former] is a sin between a person and his colleague (you knowingly cheated), and [the latter] is a sin between a person and God (you gave in to a primal, God-given urge).

So the very concept of sin is all over the place.


But yes, the bottom line is that most of the world believes in God in some fashion, and a large portion of them, mainly Eastern religions, may have never even cracked open the Bible, or know any of the stories at all. So it doesn't seem to be necessary to perceive, or understand God, for many.

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I'd have to go with a yes on your question.

1

May 13, 2024, 6:29 AM [ in reply to Help me out here. ]
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Imagine you got called to war during your 1st year of marriage. You're in a trench fighting Germans. You're wearing a gas mask about your neck and the mud is almost up to your knees.

That's where Christians are today. Our war is not with the Germans, our neighbors, atheist or others. Our war is in our hearts. Our natural nature it warring against our new spiritual nature.

Ephesians 6:

"12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:.."

There's one thing that happens when a man and woman fall in love. They want to get to know everything they can about one another.

I enjoy sharing the truth of God's Word here and just about everywhere I go. You see, when God saved me He didn't save a good man. I was a liar, bank robber, I hated (murder in God's eye)...you name a sin, I committed it. God had to do a lot of saving to save me and He works diligently to keep me from doing harm to myself by getting involved in sin.

I desperately need God's Word so I read the scripture daily and spend some time considering exactly what it means. There's a superficial message in every story of the Bible but the depths of knowledge which brings understanding may someday bring wisdom even to a fool like me.

Your last question about death has been settled in me for about two decades. I memorized the 23rd Psalm and gave it some thought.

"1 (A Psalm of David.) The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever."

Maybe I'll return here tomorrow morning and share what I've learned about that.

I have a full day ahead of me beginning with my Bible reading/study then I'm going to cut the lip off the rear window opening of a 40 year old Mercedes Benz and replace that rusty metal with something fresh and new. But, first I'm going to submit to God so He can cut out another rusty place in my heart and life and replace it with His will.

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No, you don't have to.

3

May 13, 2024, 7:12 AM [ in reply to Help me out here. ]
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Each Christian is sanctified by God differently and in different areas. We are all part of the body, but we are all different parts.

Not everyone is called to be an OT scholar. Not everyone is called to be an expert on prophecy or end times. God has put us into the body as He sees fit. We should rejoice with the other parts of the body, not try and question which parts are better.

Read I Corinthians 12:12-30. I think that will help answer your question.

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Re: No, you don't have to.

2

May 13, 2024, 7:24 AM
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2 Timothy 2:

"15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

How can a man know his place in the body if he can't rightly divide God's Word. How can he know God's Word if he doesn't read it?

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Re: No, you don't have to.

2

May 13, 2024, 8:33 AM
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2 timothy is a forgery, so you aren't even reading Paul's words, much less Gods

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Re: No, you don't have to.

2

May 13, 2024, 1:12 PM [ in reply to Re: No, you don't have to. ]
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bretfsu®

I suspect we agree on this question, and are addressing slightly different aspects of it because it was worded in a bit of a fussy manner. Does anyone need to know details of OT and NT truth to be a follower of Jesus? We would agree "no". However, the application of that to daily life does take understanding of what God is telling us about what redemption actually does. Coming to faith is both the end and the beginning of the same journey, I think.

That is all I had to say, so can ignore this:

As an example, I watched a 10 year old come to faith about 6 months ago in an ihop. Two weeks ago he and his friend were in the lunch line, trading good natured insults like kids do. He happened to say something that is politically incorrect today, but between kids means nothing. And neither kid was white. Nevertheless, a teacher heard it, yanked him out of line, and sent him to detention. I asked him, "Did you explain to the teacher that neither of you have any idea why what you said is disallowed?"
"No."
"Why not?"
"I don't need to explain myself. I said what I said, and what she thinks about it is her business. I wasn't upset about it."

I just shook my head. Aged 10. Most 60 year olds can't do that, including this one. I had to remind myself that this was a gift God had given him, and that I needed to remind myself of the NT truths that make possible for me, by faith, what this kid now does naturally. He was God talking to me. And I told him so. Then we went through a few NT passages that describe why his reaction was the right one (new identity, all things forgiven, nothing left to defend, etc), passages I need to learn to remember when feeling accused or inadequate.

Anyway, both answers, "no" and "yes", seem to be correct, depending on what one is actually asking.

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This is why I hate discussions on message boards.

3

May 13, 2024, 5:59 PM
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Message boards, texts and emails are great for disseminating information but horrible for having discussions.

There is too much probability in misunderstanding (you can't type voice inflection) and also assuming more than what was said.

That is why I try to refrain from detailed and lengthy discussions on deep topics. (Note, I am not accusing you of doing any of the above; I'm more stating it as a reminder to me.)

I suspect you and I would agree. If we sat down over a coke or cup of coffee and had a two hour discussion over how much Bible knowledge one should have, we would agree.

The issue is sanctification. I think we have way too many people who claim to be Christians are not. And, I place much of the blame on Christians for that. Too many times Christians have offer "the gospel of easy believism" and told people, especially children and teens, "All you have to do to become a Christian is accept Jesus as your savior. Ask Jesus to forgive your sins and invite Him into your heart."


I won't go into great detail here, because I would be violating what I preached at the beginning of this message. But, I will say this: "Lord" and "Savior" are two different words. "Accepting Jesus as your Savior" is far different from "Submitting to Jesus as your Lord." Jesus said, "Follow me." He never said, "Invite me to follow you."

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It seems that when you adhere to Christianity....

4

May 13, 2024, 8:08 PM
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you should exhibit some changes, and do some 'works'.

I don't think you can work yourself into Heaven. But at the same time, faith without works would seem to be dead. There is a call to serve others, and I think alot of congregations miss that. They might actually help each other within the congregation, which is admirable. But they're not going out into the broader community and helping others. It doesn't seem to me that you can be fully Christian without that servant heart. Alot of congregations seem to be more focused on the personal relationship with God, and not as much about service to others.

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I just wrote a long response to you...

1

May 14, 2024, 7:56 AM
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.... and somehow lost it before I hit post message.

I've got to run, but here is an outline of what I wrote.

I think you and I agree.

Definitions:
justification - being put into a right relationship with God.
sanctification - the process of God making you what he has already declared you to be (righteous).
faith - belief that leads to actions consistent with that belief.

Faith with no evidence of that faith isn't really faith.

You are saved by faith alone, but that faith is never alone. It will always be accompanied by works.

I don't work in order to be saved. I work because I am saved.

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I think we are addressing growing in God's Spirit.

2

May 14, 2024, 6:22 AM [ in reply to Re: No, you don't have to. ]
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A newborn, as Paul taught the Corinthians, can only digest milk. It gives him life and health. As that baby grows his nutritional needs change. Without the proper nourishment his physical growth will be less than normal.

I spent much of my life believing that those comparison between this physical world and the spiritual world were fortunate incidents; that the relationship between the grape vine's root, trunk, branches and fruit were simple conveniences which afforded us opportunity to gain some insight into a proper relationship(s) with God. I no longer believe that to be accurate.

I believe that everything in this world was created to provide us with a frame of reference to the spiritual realm. That analogy of a baby and milk was used to show the Corinthians and 88 that spiritual maturity reflects harmony among brothers in Christ.

No one here is saying that a man doesn't need God's Word. That which confuses this is the variance between milk and beef. I need to understand those OT stories because in them I see the Christ who is the main subject the 4 Gospels; that Savior who was the life desire of the Apostles Paul, Peter, James...even to John who saw the end.

Does another man need that? I think someday he will if he continues in God's Word and I believe that is one of the teachings of Jesus.

"...if ye continue in my word then are ye my disciples indeed and ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free."

You see, 2+2 equals 4 but that only frees one from ignorance of addition. If a man wants to know what continuing in God's Word frees him from he should probably read the Word. I also know that if I want to maintain my relationship with God reading the Bible is a necessity.




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Let's think about this for a second.

3

May 14, 2024, 8:18 AM [ in reply to Help me out here. ]
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Basically, you're saying "I have elected to possess a major belief system that literally can determine where I spend my eternal afterlife, but I'm too busy with kid's sports and making Benjamins to bother reading the owner's manual, so YOLO."

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What amazes me...

1

May 17, 2024, 5:12 AM
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is the time spent on Tigernet for trivial entertainment and any regular Tnetter claiming they don't have time to read and study God's Word.

"I'm too busy being entertained..."

Obed®

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I was not looking for this in particular, it's just part of my daily OT read.

1

May 14, 2024, 7:08 AM
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Isaiah 7:

"10 Moreover the LORD spake again unto Ahaz, saying,

11 Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.

12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD.

13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?

14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings..."

I urge you to read the OT like a miner digs for gold. There's always dust but sometimes you'll hit the mother lode.

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