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110%er [6219]
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If Jim Phillips is even mildly intelligent...
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Mar 19, 2024, 6:21 PM
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...and I'm not sure he is considering his leadership to date, he will look to settle with FSU and Clemson as quickly as possible. Here's why:
1. The ACC is a second-tier conference now and there is absolutely no going back. That ship has sailed: the ACC is a conference realignment loser.
2. The ACC's leverage is in its GOR and exit fee terms...for now.
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Now, let's say the ACC wins the lawsuit. Is that necessarily a good thing for the conference? All it does is guarantee the status quo for another 13 years with unhappy members being forced to stick around. The members that WANT to be there don't benefit in any discernible way.
What if the ACC loses the lawsuit? Well, that's the worst case scenario for the conference and its members and the best-case scenario for FSU and Clemson.
A negotiated settlement is beneficial to all parties: FSU and Clemson are happy because they get to leave and the remaining members of the ACC receive a windfall...something that will deteriorate with each year that the ACC holds the two schools hostage.
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A settlement is the clear-cut solution here. Only the ACC's stubbornness and vindictiveness will keep that from happening: they would be cutting off their nose to spite their face.
I am expecting a deal to be made sooner than later, and I would think FSU and Clemson will be pushing hard to get one done before the next exit deadline.
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Legend [16139]
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If he was mildly intelligent he would have never taken the job in the first
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Mar 19, 2024, 6:24 PM
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place
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Orange Blooded [3637]
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If the ACC was not profoundly retarded...
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Mar 19, 2024, 6:25 PM
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they wouldn't have had hired him... or the previous guy.
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CU Medallion [57156]
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110%er [5087]
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+1 agree - cept for that sooner than later part
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Mar 19, 2024, 6:25 PM
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1 - laywers gotta make theirs.
2.- lawyers gotta make theirs.
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Oculus Spirit [77009]
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Who?***
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Mar 19, 2024, 6:26 PM
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: If Jim Phillips is even mildly intelligent...
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Mar 19, 2024, 6:44 PM
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A settlement is 100% not in the ACC's best interest. It absolutely would be in the ACC's best interest to keep all it's best brands in the conference for the next 13 years. Just as the landscape has changed dramatically in the last 10 years, it can change just as radically in the next 10 years. It would make the most sense for the ACC to hold onto its best brands as long as possible and see what the landscape is like in 13 years.
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110%er [5087]
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the tried and true "let's wait it out" mindset that got them where they are.
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Mar 19, 2024, 7:00 PM
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Beta Minds.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: the tried and true "let's wait it out" mindset that got them where they are.
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Mar 20, 2024, 11:23 AM
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I'm not talking about for Clemson. The original post was arguing that it would be in the best interest of the ACC to settle. It would absolutely not be in the best interest of the ACC to settle. I mean it would be absolutely asinine to think that the ACC letting Its Best Brands leave would somehow be better than keeping them here.
Again, I'm not saying that that is in Clemson's best interest, but that's not the point the original post. The original post was what is in the ACC's best interest, not Clemson's.
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Rock Defender [51]
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Re: the tried and true "let's wait it out" mindset that got them where they are.
Mar 20, 2024, 11:49 AM
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That depends on what happens with ESPN. If, for instance, ESPN agrees to extend the current TV deal with the ACC, then the remaining members get a raise (2 less mouths to feed + partial/no payouts to the new members) plus their portion of any exit fees from the departing members. That extra money will go a long way toward keeping the ACC afloat for the foreseeable future.
Beyond Clemson, FSU and maybe UNC -- what better options are out there for the other member schools?
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: the tried and true "let's wait it out" mindset that got them where they are.
Mar 20, 2024, 12:13 PM
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The current TV is not going to be extended if Clemson Florida State and any other schools leave. That's going to significantly reduce the television contract. Significantly. That's the problem.
At that point, if you have schools Pitt, Louisville. maybe Virginia Tech, whoever, they would be better off joining up with schools like Oklahoma State, Arizona, West Virginia, etc. The endgame in all of this is money, and the ACC without its big brands simply won't make money.
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110%er [6219]
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Re: If Jim Phillips is even mildly intelligent...
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Mar 19, 2024, 7:28 PM
[ in reply to Re: If Jim Phillips is even mildly intelligent... ] |
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We're not going backwards...ten years from now things are NOT going to look like they did ten years ago. That is not the way college athletics-- particularly college football-- is trending. The ACC needs to get theirs while they can. Time decay on this contract is not their friend.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: If Jim Phillips is even mildly intelligent...
Mar 20, 2024, 11:46 AM
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I didn't say we are going backward. I said things can change radically in 10 years.
There's nothing for the ACC to "get while they can." If Clemson, Florida State, North Carolina, and these other schools leave, then the ACC is dead. The remaining schools will just head to the Big 12 or whatever leftover conference there is.
I have to point out again, I'm not telling you this is in the best interest of Clemson. I'm simply responding to the original poster who said that it was in the best interest of the ACC to settle. It's clearly not. If we're strictly talking about what's in the best interest of the ACC, then clearly that's to keep all the teams that are currently here.
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Walk-On [104]
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Re: If Jim Phillips is even mildly intelligent...
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Mar 20, 2024, 12:11 PM
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I believe the choice of a settlement will come to two factors.
1. What does ESPN want from the deal? Do they want two major
conferences with UNC, Clemson, FSU, and maybe some others as part
ot it? Or do they want status quo?
2. Is there anything that ACC is afraid of coming out during discovery?
That might put them in a bad light?
I also believe Clemson and FSU are very attractive to the Big 10, to
make inroads into the south. Just my opinion
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: If Jim Phillips is even mildly intelligent...
Mar 20, 2024, 9:35 PM
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It really wouldn't matter if anything comes out that would put the ACC in a bad light, given that the alternative is complete destruction.
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Legend [16439]
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Zombie conferencedead man walking
Mar 19, 2024, 7:35 PM
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And doesn’t seem to know it. The only happy party is the fat bureaucracy. The ACC as we know it is dead, whether they win in court or not. It is not if, but when.
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CU Guru [1932]
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Re: If Jim Phillips is even mildly intelligent...
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Mar 19, 2024, 7:36 PM
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They will fight till the bitter end for every penny. Why not? What do they have to lose? They have us by the cojones and we handed them over.
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All-In [44054]
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I think a settlement is the most likely outcome.
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Mar 20, 2024, 11:51 AM
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We are unlikely to win this lawsuit against the ACC. It was a contract which was initially drafted, approved, and willingly signed by all ACC member institutions. There is nothing illegal about it, and no court is going to overturn it.
By challenging it, our hope is that it will prompt a settlement which gives us better terms than we have right now in order to leave.
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Orange Blooded [4069]
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Re: I think a settlement is the most likely outcome.
Mar 20, 2024, 12:20 PM
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Neither of us know how likely Clemson is to win or lose this ATM. Considering the case will be heard on our home court and the ACC is trying to block discovery at every turn, and Coupled with the things I hear, I like our chances a lot. JMO . The Clemson admin is not stupid. Far far from it. Very well measured and thoughtful
Probably gets settled… But for a much lower amount than what people think at this time
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110%er [5961]
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This!!! Settlement is best choice because
Mar 20, 2024, 11:58 AM
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a court case of this magnitude will ripple through every academic athletic program for the rest of time.
Some type of settlement is needed here, not a drawn out court battle. Will ACC and Clemson/FSU be able to agree on anything at this point is a factor in this. The 2 best football schools in the conference and getting less than 40% of the college football revenue will leave both schools well behind the B1G and SEC. That will not work
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Athletic Dir [858]
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You assume Clemson and FSU
Mar 20, 2024, 12:02 PM
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will have a better place to go. Let's take into account that it is actually unlikely that the B1G or the SEC takes either one of them. Notre Dame actually got rejected for membership in the B1G which is why they have pursued staying independent since. The difference between Notre Dame and Clemson/FSU is that neither Clemson or FSU have the following to make it as independent teams. Both schools regretably have to be in a conference. So if the SEC or the B1G don't want us where could we go? The Big12? That hardly sounds like an improvement.
So the way it looks at this moment is that it is a no win situation. Barring being accepted into the SEC (why would they want 3 SEC schools so close all vying for the same TV time?) The best option might end up as forcing a complete change to the management of the ACC.
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Walk-On [136]
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Re: You assume Clemson and FSU
Mar 20, 2024, 12:48 PM
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Let's dissect this for a minute.
"Let's take into account that it is actually unlikely that the B1G or the SEC takes either one of them."
What proof of this do you have? No conference has taken new schools and publicly said "We are looking to expand and add X teams". That would be a lawsuit waiting to happen.
"Notre Dame actually got rejected for membership in the B1G which is why they have pursued staying independent since." They were rejected in the 1920's. The Big 10 tried adding them multiple times since and ND told them to pound sand. They have not ruled out adding ND, they would very much like to add them. https://theathletic.com/4670414/2023/07/13/notre-dame-big-ten-jim-delany/
This latest expansion about tv marketability and FSU, Clemson and UNC have that. Both conferences want match ups that will bring television viewers and all three do. All three will end up in one of the two big ones left. And it is highly likely that all three already know which of those two it will be.
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Orange Blooded [2140]
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Re: You assume Clemson and FSU
Mar 20, 2024, 1:06 PM
[ in reply to You assume Clemson and FSU ] |
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will have a better place to go. Let's take into account that it is actually unlikely that the B1G or the SEC takes either one of them. Notre Dame actually got rejected for membership in the B1G which is why they have pursued staying independent since. The difference between Notre Dame and Clemson/FSU is that neither Clemson or FSU have the following to make it as independent teams. Both schools regretably have to be in a conference. So if the SEC or the B1G don't want us where could we go? The Big12? That hardly sounds like an improvement.
So the way it looks at this moment is that it is a no win situation. Barring being accepted into the SEC (why would they want 3 SEC schools so close all vying for the same TV time?) The best option might end up as forcing a complete change to the management of the ACC.
I would be very interested in a link to a reputable article stating Notre Dame was turned down by the BIG 10.
Message was edited by: Rally119®
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Athletic Dir [858]
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Re: You assume Clemson and FSU
Mar 20, 2024, 3:59 PM
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The SEC chief Greg Sankey said that the SEC is not interested in adding more teams after Texas and Oklahoma in June of 2023. Look it up yourself. Things could change, but it is what he said less than a year ago.
CBS Sport reported shortly after Oregon and Washing announced joining the Big10 that according to Big10 insiders the Big10 is not interested in Clemson or FSU. You can look that up also. Can't do everything for yah.
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Freshman [10]
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110%er [7998]
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Re: If Jim Phillips is even mildly intelligent...
Mar 20, 2024, 12:07 PM
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I am not sure Phillips has the authority to make those decisions. Would the league presidents need to endorse the path before he could execute a plan?
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Letterman [278]
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Re: If Jim Phillips is even mildly intelligent...
Mar 20, 2024, 12:10 PM
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This is how I see it
A Settlement is best for all involved. I don’t really see how you make the conference run smoothly for 12 or 13 years if 2 schools have already sued you to leave. And several more would sue if it would help them. I equate it to a marriage in the great state of Utah. Suppose a man (the ACC) is married to 14 women (schools). He also has a side chick (ND) that comes around a few times a month for some action. She isn’t dedicated to the man. Then the man decides to bring in a couple skanks from Cali and crackhead from Tx. The man wants to keep all his women. If 2 of the wives want out and sue for divorce, and a couple more want to sue for divorce, what happens then? How do they all come back together and leave in a peaceful, productive relationship if the courts don’t allow the divorces? How does anything get done? Especially if the courts decide that they will grant a divorce in 12 or 13 years.
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Orange Blooded [3074]
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Re: If Jim Phillips is even mildly intelligent...
Mar 20, 2024, 12:13 PM
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I don't know of the ACC prevailing in the lawsuit is "good" but it sure seems better than the alternative. You think the commissioner settling with and subsequently losing the conference's two cash cows somehow makes him look more intelligent?
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All-TigerNet [13530]
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Re: If Jim Phillips is even mildly intelligent...
Mar 20, 2024, 10:05 PM
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This presumes the ACC is worried about losing. They don’t act like they are.
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