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Orange Blooded [3043]
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There is no downward trend. That is a false narrative.
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Oct 31, 2023, 6:31 PM
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We won the ACC last season and up until Week 9 we were undefeated and in the hunt for the Final Four/CFB Playoff.
We played in NY6 bowl game against a top opponent.
If the last 4 years are “downward trend,” what do you call from the period from 1982 to 2015?
We should be mindful of our program’s history, its historical trajectory, and just how special what Dabo has done is.
He is the best coach, in any sport, in Clemson history. It’s not even an argument.
He literally has accomplished more than John Heisman did.
He will pass Frank Howard in all time wins this weekend and he will do it less than half as many years (15 vs 30).
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Associate AD [816]
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Re: There is no downward trend. That is a false narrative.
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Oct 31, 2023, 6:36 PM
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We won the ACC last season and up until Week 9 we were undefeated and in the hunt for the Final Four/CFB Playoff.
We played in NY6 bowl game against a top opponent.
If the last 4 years are “downward trend,” what do you call from the period from 1982 to 2015?
We should be mindful of our program’s history, its historical trajectory, and just how special what Dabo has done is.
He is the best coach, in any sport, in Clemson history. It’s not even an argument.
He literally has accomplished more than John Heisman did.
He will pass Frank Howard in all time wins this weekend and he will do it less than half as many years (15 vs 30).
We have lost 7 games in the last year and two thirds. In the five years from 2015 to 2019. We lost 7 total games. That's not a downward trend?
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Orange Blooded [3043]
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Taking a medium to long term view - absolutely not.
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Oct 31, 2023, 6:43 PM
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Out of all the DI programs 118+ would swap their last 7 years with our last 7 years.
We are doing okay.
Dabo has PROVEN he can do it. More than once. He will do it again. History is the one of the best predictors of future outcomes.
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CU Guru [1526]
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very very few people think Dabo can't do it...
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Oct 31, 2023, 6:51 PM
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99.9% of the fanbase wants Dabo as our coach.
There is this narrative being created that people want Dabo out, which is completely false.
But he needs to correct his mistakes, and I think he will.
He made some poor decisions, and they need to be fixed. Bottom line.
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Orange Blooded [3043]
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Is it not true that we have been in a position to win every game this year?
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Oct 31, 2023, 6:56 PM
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We will get this ship righted and will finish the season strong.
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CU Guru [1526]
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3 years ago we win those games by 20+ points
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Oct 31, 2023, 6:59 PM
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stop with the BS. Recruiting and coaching has been on a decline. That is not an argument.
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Orange Blooded [3043]
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That is not factual. We would not have won by 20+ like its written in stone.
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Oct 31, 2023, 7:24 PM
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We needed NC State to miss a chip shot FG in 2016…
In 2017, we lost to Syracuse and got by NC State by 7…
We needed Chase Brice to convert a 4th and long in 2018 to beat Syracuse and we snuck by an unranked Texas A&M team by 2 points…
In 2019, it took a goal line stand to beat an i ranked UNC team by 1 point…it took a receiver running the wrong route for us to get by tOSU in the semifinals.
In 2020, we were ranked #1 and barely got by an unranked BC in The Valley.
In 2021, we lost to NC State, lost to Pitt, and were in hard fought games with BC, Syracuse, Louisville, and FSU.
In 2022, we were in one score games with Syracuse, Wake, and FSU. NC State played us tough, and we lost to…
So, no, we would not have
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CU Guru [1425]
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Re: That is not factual. We would not have won by 20+ like its written in stone.
Oct 31, 2023, 8:03 PM
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You are making his point for him. As you have pointed out, over the last 3 years we struggled more and more frequently to beat weak ACC teams. And this year we are losing to them. Syracuse is our best win.
We have gone from being national preseason #1 in 2021 to a middle of the pack team in the weakest Power 5 conference in 2023.
Hopefully Dabo will take some meaningful action in the offseason to change the current trajectory.
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CU Guru [1061]
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All-Conference [410]
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Re: 3 years ago we win those games by 20+ points
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Oct 31, 2023, 7:38 PM
[ in reply to 3 years ago we win those games by 20+ points ] |
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No doubt the offensive coaching has declined , Jeff Scott vs Tyler Grisham case in point. The passing game has looked average at best since Trevor & Amari left in ‘20. The OL, well…. no improvement there either. I will trust Dabo to make an overhaul of the Offensive staff. ( Keep Riley & let him pick his assistants)
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Asst Coach [709]
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Re: 3 years ago we win those games by 20+ points
Oct 31, 2023, 7:43 PM
[ in reply to 3 years ago we win those games by 20+ points ] |
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Happens to every program at some point. I said recently, some programs stumble every 10-12 years and lose a few; some teams stumble once every 12-15 years and win eight or nine games.
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All-Conference [410]
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Asst Coach [709]
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Re: There is no downward trend. That is a false narrative.
Oct 31, 2023, 7:37 PM
[ in reply to Re: There is no downward trend. That is a false narrative. ] |
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fbtigers, losing some games in one season of football doesn’t qualify as a downward trend. When we win out, will that be an upward trend?
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Commissioner [929]
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Re: There is no downward trend. That is a false narrative.
Oct 31, 2023, 7:49 PM
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And what makes you think this team wins out?
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Orange Blooded [2182]
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Re: There is no downward trend. That is a false narrative.
Oct 31, 2023, 9:33 PM
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That's what the bs pampers said last week. And if we lose this weekend they'll say it again
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110%er [9656]
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Re: There is no downward trend. That is a false narrative.
Oct 31, 2023, 8:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: There is no downward trend. That is a false narrative. ] |
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fbtigers, losing some games in one season of football doesn’t qualify as a downward trend. When we win out, will that be an upward trend?
Yes! If you simply create a graph when we go from a losing season to a winning one it will go up. Glad I could help
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Orange Blooded [3615]
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Re: There is no downward trend. That is a false narrative.
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Oct 31, 2023, 6:45 PM
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I saw a downward trend of play on the field.
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CU Guru [1858]
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Re: There is no downward trend. That is a false narrative.
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Oct 31, 2023, 6:46 PM
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Still have your Cheez It Bowl shirt on I see. Also, check your history. We fielded some decent teams all through the 80’s😉. Finally, you act as if he achieved everything all by himself. Without Chad Morris, BV, Dan Brooks, Marion Hobby, etc., he would probably be developing commercial real estate In Birmingham today. That being said, I truly hope he gets his S together and corrects his miscues. I’d like for him to retire here as an old man.
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Orange Blooded [3043]
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Of course, he did an excellent job in hiring the right people.***
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Oct 31, 2023, 6:49 PM
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I wish I had Cheez It Bowl tee shirt, I would rock it at The Valley this weekend just for you 
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All-TigerNet [13549]
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Re: Of course, he did an excellent job in hiring the right people.***
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Oct 31, 2023, 7:32 PM
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I think you just nailed it. He hired the right coaches and kept most of them intact during our 6 year playoff run but the latest crew he brought in is not up to that standard and our results are showing it. We just want him to figure that out and address the changing landscape in a bold way and not avoid it.
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Orange Blooded [4059]
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WTH are you talking about? If you cant see the serious offensive
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Oct 31, 2023, 7:31 PM
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problems we face, you have chosen not to see them. You don’t have to be Judge Keller to admit that this team has grossly under-performed. And the decline has shown up where you’d expect it, in losses.
Now nothing would make me happier than to have this team respond the way TB’s team responded when we lost to Wake to go to 4-4, and TB’s dismissal was presumed. But those young men decided they weren’t gonna lose again and wound up winning 4 in a row with victories over previously-undefeated FSU and spanking top ten Tennessee in the Peach Bowl. It was a miraculous turnaround. Go Tiguhs!!
Message was edited by: jackorange®
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Orange Blooded [3043]
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I see a team the leads the nation in fumbles and up until last week struggled in
Oct 31, 2023, 7:58 PM
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the RZ. Nothing that can’t be fixed.
I was a student that 2003 season, it was a helluva ride.
We might just do it again!
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Orange Blooded [3472]
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I believe we were better in 2021 than 2022
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Oct 31, 2023, 7:41 PM
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Yes we won the ACC in 2022 but there was no Kenny Picket in 2022 and the ACC was garbage last year.
This year we definitely slide.
Next year we will start off 0-1 once again. I'm hoping we will be better but not optimistic seeing how we are losing our RBs, DBs and LBs.
Maybe by 2025? We will see.
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Orange Blooded [3472]
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Only reason we got to the Orange Bowl
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Oct 31, 2023, 7:44 PM
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is because we won the ACC. Half the teams in the SEC could have won the ACC last year.
We got beat in the orange bowl by Tennessee's back up squad.
I wouldn't brag about that .
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All-In [48374]
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Re: Only reason we got to the Orange Bowl
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Oct 31, 2023, 8:31 PM
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Agree. As for the last decade success, Big Tig made a good point that he assembled quite a staff. Also Matt, and I understand this will be an unpopular statement that I would add to BTE's and Ironcat68 statement.
We and Dabo were extremely fortunate, perhaps lucky to have played in the ACC. If we had been in the SEC with the same players the last decade would have been very different than what we accomplished. We would not have had the run that Dabo likes to rave about.
If we are as fortunate as to join the sec, we will need to get a lot better to compete and not become a mizzou, ole miss, etc. Just trying to take the orange glasses off and be honest imo.
Big Tig Esquire
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Orange Blooded [3043]
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No argument at all from me RE: the ACC. We are fortunate to have played in what
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Oct 31, 2023, 8:44 PM
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Is top to bottom the worst P5 conference over the last 20 years.
We would need to step it up to compete in the SEC week in and week out.
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Legend [16459]
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And its a virtual lock that the wins record will never be broken again
Oct 31, 2023, 7:46 PM
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Forget virtual…it IS a lock
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Orange Blooded [2283]
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Orange Blooded [2306]
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Re: There is no downward trend. That is a false narrative.
Oct 31, 2023, 7:51 PM
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We would shock the world if we won this weekend. Honestly I don’t see it.
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Hall of Famer [22335]
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If we lose to ND, we'll be 3-7 against our last 10 Power 5 opponents. I wonder
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Oct 31, 2023, 7:52 PM
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how far back you'd have to go to find a 10 game streak like that? I'd call that a downward trend.
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Orange Blooded [2283]
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Re: If we lose to ND, we'll be 3-7 against our last 10 Power 5 opponents. I wonder
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Oct 31, 2023, 8:51 PM
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Somewhere between Syd Barrett and Animals.
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Freshman [-92]
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Re: There is no downward trend. That is a false narrative.
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Oct 31, 2023, 7:53 PM
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"There is no downward trend. That is a false narrative."
This post is utter delusion. Seek help.
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Orange Blooded [2753]
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There's this thing called "nuance"
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Oct 31, 2023, 7:54 PM
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No one's saying every aspect from top to bottom is uniformly and universally downward. The idea is more that certain problems and areas of lack are slowly but steadily become more the norm and less the exception. This can be true even whilst there are ebbs and flows of "bottom line" results. We all know how bad the offense was in '21. Last year was a slog of a different sort but various issues with QB, turnovers, WR, OL, special teams and game management issues, and so forth become ensconced. Most if not all of those are still with us in one form or another, some are worse, and the record is now bearing it out, too.
It's not a false narrative. It's true. Sure, caveats can be made, but it's true, for all that.
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All-American [561]
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Technically competition requires a constant state of flux...
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Oct 31, 2023, 8:04 PM
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if you believe what you stated is true then you also believe we are currently trending
upward. I strongly disagree–
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All-In [44055]
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We are 3-6 in our last 9 games against power 5 opponents.
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Oct 31, 2023, 8:55 PM
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Compared to winning over 90% of our games against power 5 teams for many years in a row when we were elite.
We have fallen a long way. It’s quite the downward trend.
This really isn’t up for debate, although you pumpers seem determined to try.
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Orange Blooded [3043]
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Do you run to your financial advisor and take all your money out of the
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Oct 31, 2023, 9:00 PM
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market when there is downturn?
No, that would not be wise. Good investors know that you don’t run and panic when the market goes down. It’s temporary and short term.
Historically, the market has ALWAYS trended up, over the long term.
Just like our FB over the the last 15 years.
If we are still a .500 team seven years from now, then let’s talk, but you and I both know we won’t be.
Unless we do something rash, like runoff the best coach Clemson has ever known in any sport.
We will see this through.
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Orange Blooded [2283]
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Re: Do you run to your financial advisor and take all your money out of the
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Oct 31, 2023, 9:07 PM
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That has nothing to do with your argument. How can you say there isn’t a downward trend when you fail to make the playoffs for a third year in a row after making it six years in a row?
But….but….but..,,10 wins…..ACC Championship…….two ACC wins this year over WF and Syracuse…….movin on up.
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Orange Blooded [3043]
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Because you dont measure trends in single seasons or even three seasons.
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Oct 31, 2023, 9:15 PM
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Should be thinking long-term.
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All-In [44055]
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Three years of worse than expected results constitutes a downward trend.
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Oct 31, 2023, 10:35 PM
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Especially when the third year is the worst of the last three years.
Again, this isn’t really debatable.
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Orange Blooded [3043]
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Effectively, you think that the last three years, and this year especially, is
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Nov 1, 2023, 9:21 AM
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the direction we are going.
I think the last 20 years, when measured against the previous 125 years of Clemson football represents an upward trend.
Especially the last 15 years, serious upward trend when measured against our history.
Thank you Dabo for that!
This year is temporary and I think we will finish with 9 wins, which between 1992 and 2010, would have represented an extraordinary season.
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Orange Blooded [3043]
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Re: Effectively, you think that the last three years, and this year especially, is***
Nov 1, 2023, 1:14 PM
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Judge Keller®
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All-In [44055]
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I do not think we will return to being an elite program without major changes.
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Nov 1, 2023, 4:51 PM
[ in reply to Effectively, you think that the last three years, and this year especially, is ] |
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I do not believe that the last three years are the result of misfortune, injuries, bad juju, or anything of the sort.
Rather, they are directly due to several critical errors Dabo has made:
1. Bad coordinator hires.
2. Bad position coach hires.
3. Not using the portal to address needs.
We have 30+ games of data recently, which show that we are not the same program we were when we were in the playoffs and winning national championships. Not even close actually.
Our slide would’ve likely been faster and more pronounced if we weren’t so much more talented than most teams we play. We can thank the relatively weak ACC for that.
Sure, compared to most of the 90s winning 8-9 games is fine, but this isn’t the 90s and I see no value in comparing to a different era when we didn’t devote nearly the resources to our football program that we do now or have the expectations we do now.
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Freshman [-92]
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Re: I do not think we will return to being an elite program without major changes.
Nov 1, 2023, 5:01 PM
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I can't imagine how anyone could disagree with anything in this post.
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Replies: 42
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