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Orange Blooded [2840]
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UNIONIZING FOOTBALL
Jan 29, 2014, 8:44 AM
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So, what does everyone think of the Northwestern players trying to for a College Football Union? I haven't decided where to sit on this one. If they are able it may end up destroying the sport. But it could force the teams that end up cutting it's players after a couple of unproductive years on the roster. This would kill the SECheat. That I am in favor of. I have never been a fan of any union so it's something that will be very interesting in following.
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10363430/outside-lines-northwestern-wildcats-football-players-trying-join-labor-union
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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Most Unions start out for a good purpose then go crazy
Jan 29, 2014, 8:49 AM
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I could see this being a snowball effect in a bad way. In my opinion FB is something you choose to do, it's not something required of you. Every player knows the rest of strapping on the pads and know that one hit could be all she wrote for your career. Is that fair? not really but it's the risk you take.
Also the fact that a lot of these kids get a free education and a full ride to schools where the average 4 year tuition is over 60k I have a hard time with the whole: "We deserved to be paid" thing.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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College Football players pull in more money than their...
Jan 29, 2014, 10:14 AM
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scholarships are worth. Sammy definitely pulled in tons of more cash for Clemson than what his tuition cost. That's one thing to keep in mind with modern day college football. College's are making big time money off of college football in so many different ways.
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110%er [5298]
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Re: College Football players pull in more money than their...
Jan 29, 2014, 10:24 AM
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I see what you are saying, but for college athletics to work you can't just pay players what they are worth. If you did that, how would universities fund sports programs that don't even come close to making a profit? I like the idea that women's sports exist in the college world, but they would all be gone if they had to stand on their own. I doubt most of our mens sports make a profit either.
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CU Guru [1788]
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and if these were long-term partnerships, I would agree.
Jan 29, 2014, 1:12 PM
[ in reply to College Football players pull in more money than their... ] |
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But they are five year investments by both parties. Sometimes not even that. The players receive a huge non-monetary benefit by being able to showcase their talents.
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All-In [30931]
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can't be good...***
Jan 29, 2014, 8:50 AM
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All-TigerNet [13362]
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I don't know all the ins and puts but
Jan 29, 2014, 8:52 AM
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I am not sure they will be able to form a union for a couple of reasons:
1- it's only for private institutions.
2- it's nearly impossible to enforce and track.
3- are they really going to get college football players to strike if they don't get their way? Nope
I HATE unions, but I can appreciate what they are trying to achieve. To me, there is not enough value placed on the education you recieve in return.
The only thing that makes it a little harsh or "unfair" in my mind is that there is no other realistic route to get to the nfl other than through the NCAA. That being said, some guys may not even want the education, but are rather going through the system that is set up. I know I am rambling a little, but overall I see there point and simply think it cannot be carried out in a reasonable or efficient manor.
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CU Medallion [64685]
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Who pays the union dues?
Jan 29, 2014, 8:53 AM
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Union members pay dues to cover the union’s costs most of which go to the inflated salaries of the union's paid full-time staff members who manage its operations.
If unions were prevented from obtaining dues via automatic payroll deductions and, instead, were forced, to spend their time and effort collecting the tens of millions of dollars in contributions from actual members, my guess is, there would be less of them.
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CU Medallion [68221]
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Re: Who pays the union dues?
Jan 29, 2014, 10:24 AM
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"I don't pay no union dues
I smoke old stogies I have found
Short but not too big around
I'm a man of means by no means
King of the road...." from King of the Road by Roger Miller
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: UNIONIZING FOOTBALL
Jan 29, 2014, 9:02 AM
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I really hope the NCAA quickly comes out and says that no union members are eligible to participate in college athletics. I am all for discussions over changes in college athletics but players are not employees of the university or the NCAA.
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CU Medallion [60250]
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wouldn't they become employees instead of student-athletes?
Jan 29, 2014, 9:07 AM
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so they could be essentially hired/fired. How would a coach handle this?
I think they are looking only at the positive gains and not seeing the negatives of this.
My advice to the players: you don't know how good you've got it until it's taken away from you. Once that happens, you can never get it back.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: wouldn't they become employees instead of student-athletes?
Jan 29, 2014, 9:12 AM
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Exactly. I am sure these are very smart players but they are looking for a quick fix. A union cannot function inside the bounds of college athletics.
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Starter [398]
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Re: UNIONIZING FOOTBALL
Jan 29, 2014, 9:13 AM
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One of the dumbest ideas ever. If FORCED to adopt as employees (which will not happen), Northwestern University president has the option to:
1. remove all sports programs completely (that would really help the student-athletes on scholarship, wouldn't it?);
2. promptly begin paying student-athletes minimum wage AND removing all scholarships (that would really help the student-athletes on scholarship, wouldn't it?).
It's the spoiled rotten attitude that people want all the benefits, whine about what they have, then want more. It's ridiculous.
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110%er [5298]
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Re: UNIONIZING FOOTBALL
Jan 29, 2014, 10:00 AM
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I think some changes need to be made to the system, but unionizing football seems like a bad idea to me. Most importantly, I think scholarships need to be 4 year scholarships, and the only way out of it lasting for four years is if the student goes pro before the 4 years are up.
I'm still not in favor of football players becoming salaried, and I don't like the idea of college football moving towards what amounts to minor league football. College football is special, there is currently nothing else like it in the sports world. I just hope we don't end up ruining it.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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The players see none of the millions of dollars the schools
Jan 29, 2014, 10:11 AM
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make off of them, so it's a good idea.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: The players see none of the millions of dollars the schools
Jan 29, 2014, 10:18 AM
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None of? 85 players receiving about 20k a year in scholarships. That in itself is about 1.7 million per year.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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20k? for northwestern? not in this lifetime, but i hear
Jan 29, 2014, 10:30 AM
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you. clemson out of state is over $30k now?
there's a good, although "shallow-end" look from forbes of what a scholarship from a top 25 team means.
less than 1% of all scholarship football will ever see football beyond college.
clemson alone has put $200 million into football facilities since bowden, that doesn't include the millions of "annuals" that go into support.
l
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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110%er [7390]
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DUCKS GONNA HUNT
Jan 29, 2014, 10:26 AM
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CU Medallion [54005]
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So, free education with unlimited free tutoring, access to
Jan 29, 2014, 10:25 AM
[ in reply to The players see none of the millions of dollars the schools ] |
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the finest body building,strength training, nutritionist,etc. that money can buy....is equal to,"They receive nothing".
Let me tell you something, my daughter made 1510 on her SAT, (I would compare that to a Sammy Watkins in the academic category), went to Clemson, graduated ### laude in architecture, got accepted to what was the highest ranked architectural grad school in the country (Michigan), just received her master's there, and out of 100 grads, was one of FOUR selected to have their thesis published by the school. SHE HAS ABOUT $60,000 in college loans to pay off.
So, I would say the athletes have it pretty good.IMHO!
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Legend [15754]
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110%er [9690]
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Free education, free room/board, full access to top workout
Jan 29, 2014, 11:27 AM
[ in reply to The players see none of the millions of dollars the schools ] |
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facilities, tutors, nutritionists, personalized training/trainers, plus the other "perks" of being a football player on a college campus. Considering many of these guys couldn't even get into a top college without football, I think they should keep their collective mouths shut.
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CU Medallion [54005]
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I have to agree with a statement Walt made yesterday. In
Jan 29, 2014, 10:18 AM
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20 years, there is a good chance there will be NO football. Between lawyers trying to make a lick on injuries, and soccer moms complaining about injuries,and now, players wanting to get paid,have a union, break the bank, whatever. It will soon be over.By the way, if they are ruled to be employees,which I am sure the Obama administration is looking into, then the dumb nimrods, WILL BE TAXED on the free education they have been receiving.And that will be the end of it. Period.
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Orange Blooded [2840]
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Re: I have to agree with a statement Walt made yesterday. In
Jan 29, 2014, 1:15 PM
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Spud, they are taxed on the Scholarships they receive. My daughter is on a partial softball scholarship and each year we have to claim that amount as income. It actually doesn't come out as taxes but it is less money that I get to claim as college expenses. I can't complain it is less money that I have to pay for her to get her degree.
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CU Medallion [54005]
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Well, that sux!***
Jan 29, 2014, 6:21 PM
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CU Guru [1797]
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Economics of the situation suggests there will be change
Jan 29, 2014, 10:24 AM
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In a situation where Group A is solely responsible for bringing in billions of dollars a year for Group B and Group B is paying them with college scholarships that many in Group A don't even want, then Group A has a lot of bargaining power and, once they are organized, Group B will have to pay up. Texas, Ohio State, Alabama, and many others make $100 million a year or more off of their sports teams. If college players get organized and make a credible threat to strike, the university officials would all sh*t their pants and start throwing out concessions left and right. I'm sure ESPN would also influence the decision-making process; they would be a shell of it's former self without college sports.
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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I'd expect the schools to take their schollys
Jan 29, 2014, 10:35 AM
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and give them to other HS players that don't want to join the union.
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CU Guru [1797]
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Re: I'd expect the schools to take their schollys
Jan 29, 2014, 10:54 AM
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It would be interesting to see how that would play out. I know that the MLB was planning to bring in replacement players during the strike in the 90's. I don't remember if it didn't happen because of politics or what. I know as a fan I would be less excited to watch players who I knew weren't going to be as good overall.
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Legend [15754]
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Couple thoughts. #1) Once we start calculating the
Jan 29, 2014, 11:25 AM
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leverage of football players vs football programs, I think it's already over. The more we break the bond between the fans watching and the players playing, the less interesting it all becomes. Maybe that's just me, but if you're going to overtly degrade college football to the point that it is a developmental league for the pro's, why would I watch? I can watch better football at the pro level. I live in Charlotte and Panthers games are easier to get to and at this point, about the same price. Actually, I would save a ton of money by just becoming a pro fan and I would watch a better game.
#2) I think you're overstating the leverage of the players. Players leave after four years. No one player makes or breaks a program, and there are WAAAAY more players that want scholarships than there are scholarships available. MLB is a totally different situation in that A) you have guys on your team for years and years and B) it already IS a professional league.
Anyway, it will be interesting to see where this goes. Unions always start with high-sounding principles ("We need a voice at the table to express our concerns on safety") but ultimately you'll find that the schools and the NCAA aren't OPPOSED to safety concerns and after everyone gets on the same page, the Union will have to find some way to justify its involvement and charging all those dues.
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All-TigerNet [11257]
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Re: UNIONIZING FOOTBALL
Jan 29, 2014, 10:27 AM
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I don't see it going far. It might push the NCAA to give more benefits, cash, to athletes. They are already considering this I believe. Besides, who would head it and administer it. The players are only around for a few years. Oh, wait, Obama will be available soon. Perfect fit for graft and corruption for him and his Chicago buddies!
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Rock Defender [66]
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Re: UNIONIZING FOOTBALL
Jan 29, 2014, 10:33 AM
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IRONY of this happening in Chicago?
They should let teams pay for the draft insurance for those that decide to stay. Otherwise leave it alone.
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Legend [16597]
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Probably the end of College Sports, except for maybe
Jan 29, 2014, 10:36 AM
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football and basketball. Headed towards if you can't make money off of it, you can't afford to do it.
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110%er [5510]
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Re: UNIONIZING FOOTBALL
Jan 29, 2014, 10:44 AM
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If they do get this, then they should be held liable for all money spent on the scholarship, ie, if they leave school early, they should have to pay back the full scholarship. Not in favor of this thing at all. You see who started this, the biggest steel union in the US. I can see where the students want to be protected and should be, but no one is forcing them to play. When they sign an agreement with the university they want to play for, then honor that agreement to its fullest, meaning all 4 years and nothing less. This is just my opinion.
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Oculus Spirit [94265]
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It will not fix the SEC 'cutting,' players.
Jan 29, 2014, 11:02 AM
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Those guys can go somewhere else and play. The SEC teams will come up with a way to 'educate,' them and still throw them off the team so as to save the scholarship.
The kids will transfer to another school that will promise them playing time. If they wanted an education they probably wouldn't be going to one of the SEC schools that culls through players anyway.
Unions have played a great role in the development of the manufacturing and transportion industries. They also played a great role in destroying both. You won't have to worry about a union killing NCAA sports. I'm more concerned with the NCAA killing NCAA sports.
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CU Guru [1788]
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I was thinking similarly. If they are considered employees,
Jan 29, 2014, 11:27 AM
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then the LOI will become a contract. Players wouldn't be cut as easily nor could players leave after their junior year. And, if the players are unionized, the academicians will get involved and apply much more pressure to ensure athletes are legitimate students. Then, perhaps there would be a shift to using all walk-ons.
It is improper and possibly illegal to get a scholarship for doing something you are employed to do.
And if scholarship football players become "employees," what about scholarship baseball players and basketball players? How about scholarship nurses, scholarship, engineers, scholarship whatevers?
I don't think they will win, but either way I think it may be good for college football to go through this process.
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Orange Blooded [2840]
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Re: I was thinking similarly. If they are considered employees,
Jan 29, 2014, 1:33 PM
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I'm as interested as anyone with how this plays out. I know that most unions make their entire workforce join. Whereas the Government employees do not have to join and the union is still required to represent them with issues with the union contract. I depends on the collective bargaining agreement. They will all have to agree on the contract (Both the Players and the Colleges/NCAA). Once this happens and the player becomes part of the union it is almost impossible for a person to be fired. It's going to be fun watching this unfold.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Well, the current NCAA model does look very similar to a
Jan 29, 2014, 1:37 PM
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dictatorship...
I wonder what will become of scholarships. If student athletes want payment for this and that, I wonder if scholarships become partial or are completely done away with. I don't see how smaller institutions with smaller budgets can afford to keep pace with everyone.
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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Exactly, and what about other sports?
Jan 29, 2014, 1:41 PM
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Football is kind and raises millions but what about soft ball or baseball or Basketball or other Olympic sports that may not be as lucrative? Don't those student athletes have a right to be a part of a union? If so then schools will drop those programs because they don't have the money to keep them up and running.
This whole thing can and probably will get out of hand very very quickly if it comes to pass and could destroy something we all love.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Yep, what if we had to pay our Bball team? I know the money
Jan 29, 2014, 1:49 PM
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sure wouldn't come from fan support...it just isn't there...
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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The schools might have to raise ticket prices or tuition
Jan 29, 2014, 1:52 PM
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I can imagine how poorly that would go.
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CU Guru [1059]
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Re: Exactly, and what about other sports?
Jan 29, 2014, 3:53 PM
[ in reply to Exactly, and what about other sports? ] |
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Baseball players can only be partial members of the union.
You want to fix something, fix the problem of only getting 11.7 scholarships for men's baseball and yet 15 for women's basketball. Do they play 10 on 10 in women's basketball?
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