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Standout [340]
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Stark Raving Brad - Dear JackOrange
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Dec 11, 2023, 5:25 AM
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Opponent: TCU Dec. 11th
“The ridiculous bickering sucks most of the joy out of Tiger hoops. We are off to good start, currently pretty solid inside and out and have the funnest mop head to play college ball... I’m a longtime Tiger hoops fan, so I know it is far too early to make any wild-ash claims... Yet neither side in this endless spew will shut the freak up and allow this basketball season to determine the future of Clemson basketball. And I am beyond sick of it.” – jackorange, Dec. 10th
I checked the list. You haven’t Ignored me. So, I guess you “deserve” an answer of sorts, though it will be deservedly long even as much has been left out.
This is easy, my friend. Simple facts.
1. Last year the ACC was at a lifetime low... literally. Viztiz has brought this Stat up repeatedly: per Sportsreference.com, the ACC, as a conference, had its lowest Rating last year per SRS since 1970. That was 50+ years ago. Further, this placed the ACC at #7 in terms of conference ratings. Number 7 of 33 conferences. What used to be the gold standard of conferences is no more. Yet, Clemson won no regular season championships, nor no year-end ACC Tournaments. We made the ACCT semi-finals, which isn’t “poor”, but we were completely wiped away there in a non-competitive, 20-point loss. We also weren’t one of 5 conference teams to make the NCAA Tournament. These are the “chips” one must bring home to prove that one has been successful to at least some degree in one’s own conference.
2. Not winning the regular season title is a much bigger issue than one would normally think though, and this is because of all 15 teams in the ACC, Clemson had the lowest rated Strength of Schedule. Of ALL teams. Smack dab, bottom of the barrel. And while we were tied-3rd with two other teams, only one was a ranked team. Against the 4 other teams that rated 1st thru tied-3rd in the ACC, our record was a losing one: 2-3. Tellingly, we were 0-3 against the two teams who Tied-1st. 3rd is nice, but seriously, ask your wife sometime how she feels about having the 3rd nicest looking dress at the Party.
3. Again, we did not make the NCAA Tournament last year. A bubble-wrapped NET rating, limited program history, a low-rated conference, and the pitiful team SOS, being only part of the problem. Losses to NET #200+ teams like Loyola-Chicago and South Carolina, were laughable enough, and then Clemson had to go and lose to the lowest NET-rated Power 5 team in the entire country, Louisville. The very Lowest.
4. We were offered an opportunity to register our righteous indignation at being left out of the sainted NCAAT by succeeding in the 2nd-rated end of season Tournament, the NIT. We were even given Home Field Advantage for several rounds to grease the skids for a possible trip to the Semi’s and Finals in NYC. Against yet another NET 200+ rated team in the opening round, we raced to a 15-point lead to show our “class”. We then folded like a cheap lawn chair to a badly inferior opponent, essentially giving up the entire lead by halftime, and closing the half on an 0-8 run over 3 and a half minutes.
5. This was Year 13 and our “best year” in 5, unless you want to count a year where we were beaten by Rutgers, again at Home, in the 1st round of the NCAAT. Even still, it isn’t arguable that last year was our Coach’s 4th best ever in a tenure now spanning 13 long seasons.
6. During said tenure, 7 other ACC teams have won the ACC Tournament. Seven. Our current Coach though has yet to make even the ACCT Final, and it’s been 15 years since Clemson did so.
7. The Coach’s sycophants like to boast that He has a .500 record in ACC play over those 13 years. That’s their big talking point of past “success”. Again, this comes against a conference that has crashed and burned over the last several years. Of 158 other teams in the ACC over this 13-year tenure, only 71 have made the NCAAT. That’s 45%. In the previous 7 seasons of ACC play, with Clemson’s previous Coach, 39 of 41 teams made the NCAAT, or 49%. Skipping back over the laughable Larry Shyatt, in the next previous two Coaches’ tenures, 76 of 119 ACC opponents over 14 years made the NCAAT, or 64%. Previous Coaches at Clemson coached in an entirely more competitive League.
8. Want more of posterity? In our current Coach’s 13 years, Clemson has been ranked 8.4% of the time in the AP Top 25. Over the 12 years previous (two Coaches), Clemson was ranked 21.2% of the time. And in the 14 years previous (two more Coaches), Clemson was ranked 19.6% of the time.
9. Our current Coach has made 3 NCAAT appearances in 13 years. The previous Coach at Clemson made 3 NCAAT’s in 7 years. Again, skipping back, the next-previous Coach made 3 NCAAT’s in 4 years. The previous Coach to that made 3 NCAAT’s in his first 6 seasons. These are comparative records at Clemson, and in demonstrably tougher conference environments.
10. Combining the tenures of our Coaches from 1985 thru 1998, 14 years, Clemson finished the MBB season ranked in the AP Top 25 on 3 occasions. In the next 12 years from 1999 until 2010, again two Coaches, Clemson finished ranked twice. Over the last 13 seasons with our current Coach, Clemson has finished ranked but once.
11. Looking at these combined records again (because the “period lengths” are roughly the same), between 1985 and 1998 (14 years) Clemson played in an ACC that made 43 Sweet Sixteens, 24 Elite Eights, and 13 Final Fours. Between 1999 and 2010 (12 yrs), 23 Sweet-16’s, 12 Elite-8’s, and 11 Final Fours with 5 ultimate NCAAT Champions. For the current tenure between 2011 and 2023, the ACC has made 35 Sweet 16’s, 19 Elite 8’s, and only 8 Final 4’s (with but 3 eventual Champions).
12. What that doesn’t specifically address is “success rate”. The total teams in the ACC during those periods were 119 (1985-98), 125 (1999-2010), and 171 (2011-2023 current). The success rate then for the Sweet 16 would be 36% for 1985-98, 18% for 1999-2010, and 20% in the current 13-year tenure.
For Final Fours, the comparative rates would be 10.9% (1985-98), 8.8% (1999-2010), and only 4.7% (2011-2023). The ACC of the past was simply more competitive Nationally, even as it had many fewer teams inherent.
These are but the most obvious of facts as to why the current administration of Clemson Basketball has failed.
This Coach has had the benefit of millions spent on improved facilities, both main facility and practice, millions in added personal salary as well as added Assistant salaries, access to a Talent Portal, and the opportunity to pay for play with NIL. He has also Coached at Clemson during a period when the Clemson Brand name was at an undeniable and transcendent all-time high.
And yet the current Coach’s record does not even stand up to comparison to the 4 Clemson Coaches who comprise the comparative periods of 1985-98 and 1999-2010.
So please, explain WHY the current Coach even got this current added 14th year? What exactly has he done to deserve ONE MORE YEAR to “determine the future of Clemson Basketball”?
All I know is that Thomas Austin did not get 14 years to prove himself, nor even a 3rd year as OL Coach. Brandon Streeter did not get 14 years to prove himself, nor even a 2nd year as OC. Likewise, Billy Napier, now the Head Coach at Florida, did not get 13 years at Clemson to prove himself, nor even a 3rd year as OC.
The current state of Clemson Basketball is a sick and pathetic Cult of Personality for which there is any number of facts to argue. Please.... watch the Sycophants however. They won’t argue facts. Instead, they will simply demonize, denigrate, recriminate, and obfuscate.
Better yet, after 14 long years, a fair number here will be too lazy to get educated, and so will snark TL--DR.
Maybe you should be “sick” of them...
Welcome to Stark Raving Brad....
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CU Guru [1163]
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Its incredible how much time you have on your hands
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Dec 11, 2023, 5:43 AM
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You’re a special one.
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Standout [340]
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I just like every Clemson fan has had 14 long years....***
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Dec 11, 2023, 7:22 AM
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Athletic Dir [871]
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Ok, then quit watching until Brownell is gone. Or enjoy this season for what it
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Dec 11, 2023, 8:16 AM
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is and will become.
Lastly, I quit reading your manifesto when you said Clemson lost in the NCAAT at HOME to Rutgers. There are no home games in NCAA tournaments.
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Standout [340]
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were we not the "Home" team? I did not mistate.
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Dec 11, 2023, 8:53 AM
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Why does everyone want me to go away? stop watching? stop writing?
Maybe it's because they're still at that point in life where they're learning that
Guilt and Ignorance never go away unless addressed up front.
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All-TigerNet [13549]
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Re: were we not the "Home" team? I did not mistate.
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Dec 11, 2023, 8:59 AM
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Or maybe its because we think you've chewed all the sugar out of this gum and wonder if you have anything else to say other than Brad sucks.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: were we not the "Home" team? I did not mistate.
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Dec 11, 2023, 10:01 AM
[ in reply to were we not the "Home" team? I did not mistate. ] |
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This senile moron wants us to believe he knows what he is talking about as it pertains to college basketball, yet he believes teams gave home games in the tourney.
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Legend [16921]
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Re: were we not the "Home" team? I did not mistate.
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Dec 11, 2023, 1:13 PM
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Thank god you found your one mistake in that post to pat yourself on the back over.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: were we not the "Home" team? I did not mistate.
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Dec 11, 2023, 1:39 PM
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Somebody who believes the ncaa tournament has home games shouldn't be taken seriously at all. This is stuff you learn in the first couple years watching ncaa basketball. He obviously doesnt watch much.
I knew you would come on here to defend your butt buddy senile mike though! Good work!
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Legend [16158]
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It's like finding out somebody doesn't know where the Upper Deck in DV is,
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Dec 11, 2023, 1:42 PM
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it really puts it all in perspective
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Standout [340]
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very good, CM Shack; you've learned how to spell "Upper"***
Dec 11, 2023, 1:45 PM
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Legend [16158]
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Home game hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha***
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Dec 11, 2023, 1:46 PM
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Home game hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha***
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Dec 11, 2023, 2:11 PM
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I didnt think senile mike had any credibility to lose, but here we are. Hilarious.
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Legend [16158]
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Christmas came early this year***
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Dec 11, 2023, 2:19 PM
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Legend [16921]
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Re: were we not the "Home" team? I did not mistate.
Dec 11, 2023, 3:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: were we not the "Home" team? I did not mistate. ] |
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So only you’re allowed to get basic facts wrong but still believe you know what you talking about. Like most recently:
Believing that the second most attended game since Littlejohn was renovated was a terrible crowd.
That a 9-0 non conference start is unusual for Clemson basketball despite happening 5 of 8 seasons before Brownell.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: were we not the "Home" team? I did not mistate.
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Dec 11, 2023, 3:45 PM
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Typical tyler lying again.
I didnt say it wasn't heavily attended, and spoke nothing of the numbers in the crowd. What i said was there is no way a 20 point loss where the opposing team dominated the game for all but a few minutes was the best atmosphere since 2019. We scored 2 points in the first 11 minutes of the game. The crowd was essentially put to sleep in the first half except for the w last couple of minutes just look at the veey first 10 seconds in the yourube video. The crowd is sparse behund the students. Im sure it filled up, but that's a bad look.
https://youtu.be/MP4GhXZ3rv4?si=K8qhyCZImUFx1pnA
Here is the duke game from last year where the crowd was louder and more engaged for the entire game. We get it, a 20 point loss where we look like crap is your kind of atmosphere.
https://youtu.be/AED49gO3dvg?si=8pbFK3pbe3nPJyvJ
Here is a pic of the sparse crowd at tip off vs uva
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Legend [16158]
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Not knowing that the NCAA Tourney is hosted at NEUTRAL sites is a HUGE
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Dec 11, 2023, 3:45 PM
[ in reply to Re: were we not the "Home" team? I did not mistate. ] |
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detail to "forget" considering the manifestos he has written chastising actual fans for their lack of basketball knowledge...Not surprised you're defending this turd though Tyler, just disappointed
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Hall of Famer [22752]
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Standout [340]
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to be honest, I might actually feel some guilt that I literally despise every
Dec 11, 2023, 1:43 PM
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one of you boot-lickers. Every. one. of. you.
Brad Brownell has done nothing for 13 years except steal money from Clemson. Now that he gets the benefit of a Covid year, NIL, and Portal transfers, he's all of a sudden the reincarnation of John Wooden.
Whatever: even if he goes for 25+ and the Elite 8 this year, he's still a moron and a grifter. His record proves that beyond a single doubt except for those who lick his boots.
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Legend [16158]
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I can't believe you thought we lost at home in the NCAAT***
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Dec 11, 2023, 1:45 PM
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Standout [340]
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hey my mistake, I do make them.... knowing that both you and Brownell
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Dec 11, 2023, 1:53 PM
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are two of the Stooges isn't one of them.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: hey my mistake, I do make them.... knowing that both you and Brownell
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Dec 11, 2023, 3:03 PM
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You didnt make a mistake, you just didn't know, which really speaks volumes to your basketball knowledge.
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Legend [16158]
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Hall of Famer [22752]
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Re: to be honest, I might actually feel some guilt that I literally despise every
Dec 11, 2023, 2:10 PM
[ in reply to to be honest, I might actually feel some guilt that I literally despise every ] |
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I’m a boot licker now. Haha. Are you and ClemsonSCTiger the same guy? Y’all really should read more and maybe consider talking less. Show me one post I have made that was anywhere close to blindly supporting Coach Brownell. I’ll wait. My support is for Clemson and the student athletes. In all sports. Maybe your guilt should be for spouting off about stuff you know nothing about.
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All-TigerNet [12592]
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Re: Stark Raving Brad - Dear JackOrange
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Dec 11, 2023, 7:24 AM
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I'm not going to dispute any of the past stats you've listed.You appear to have obsessively done your homework. I was ready for Brownell to be replaced several years ago. He wasn't.
This year's team is a demonstrably better team than we've had in years, not only in wins and losses but also in the way they're playing. The sum of the parts of this team is so much better than what's been on the floor in years past.
Until this team starts ######## the bed, why not just be quiet. There are a lot of positive things to see this year. Sure, there is no perfect game, team or coach, but for now this is a good team that it seemingly appears you want to fail to validate your point that you think Brad sucks.
Yes, I think we should have made a coaching change some time ago, but I'll be fine with this team having success, making the tournament, hopefully going deep in the tournament even if that means Brad gets a fat raise and contract extension.
Enjoy where we are now and if the wheels fall off later this season, then giddily jump back in and spew the negativity.
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Standout [340]
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"enjoy where we are now" - that's fine. Clemson fans are great front-runners now
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Dec 11, 2023, 7:51 AM
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You wrote a nice measured post. I appreciate that and commend you; truly.
But I also notice that you didn't answer my question about Thomas Austin.... and where he is now.
So, I'm not going to enjoy the fact that Thomas Austin is un- or under-employed.
Or that Brandon Streeter is under-employed. Etc. Etc.
My posts aren't about the team (good on them); my posts are about the Coach.
Defend the Coach; defend where he is after 13 years; defend the multiple, multiple 2nd chances he's been given.
Then defend how quickly "Clemson Nation" moved on from Thomas Austin, almost dancing on his grave, and literally, "taking credit" for his ouster by proclaiming their long-held opinion of him.
People need to check themselves at the door; they've truly become sick. The continued support of the Basketball Coach is, imho, not appropriate.
rons1®
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Athletic Dir [871]
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You want to know where Thomas Austin is? I can get you his number so you
Dec 11, 2023, 8:19 AM
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can call to ask if you want? And Streeter is employed at UGA…not sure what under-employed means. Good for him to be there in the playoffs.
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Standout [340]
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he's not OC***
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Dec 11, 2023, 8:54 AM
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All-TigerNet [12592]
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Re: "enjoy where we are now" - that's fine. Clemson fans are great front-runners now
Dec 11, 2023, 9:26 AM
[ in reply to "enjoy where we are now" - that's fine. Clemson fans are great front-runners now ] |
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My butt has been in Littlejohn the last 30+ years since I moved back to the Upstate. I'm not a front runner.
I'll leave it up to Dabo to hire and fire his assistants. My only complaint with Dabo's hires have been that I think as a whole it is best to bring in more coaches from outside who bring new ways of thinking and questioning of how to do things.
I agree that if it were up to me, I would have moved on from Brad several years ago, but the facts are thus far this team is successful and if that continues he won't be fired nor should he.
I'll leave it up to you to write Graham Neff and argue for firing Brad at this juncture.
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Standout [340]
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I send him every "SRB"***
Dec 11, 2023, 12:45 PM
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Legend [17328]
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Re: I send him every "SRB"***
Dec 11, 2023, 1:24 PM
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Has AD Neff been granted a restraining order yet?
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Asst Coach [712]
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Re: Stark Raving Brad - Dear JackOrange
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Dec 11, 2023, 8:23 AM
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This team has gotten me back into Clemson basketball. I love the way this team is built. They have a little bit of everything. I’m actually looking forward to watching it now, it’s not all football year round for me right now. From what I can see, and this is just me, maybe the best team since Barnes was here?
Just a thought from a casual basketball fan. I’d say any coach that can build a team like this at Clemson, a blue blood football school, is a helluva coach.
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Standout [340]
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1 team out of 14, LOL. You didn't answer my question about Thomas Austin either
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Dec 11, 2023, 9:05 AM
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My suggestion is to give up basketball. It isn't helping you. Go take some courses in Empathy, Sociology, Family Values, Religion...
Those will show you how to have a broader spectrum of awareness of others.
Basketball, at least as it's being practiced at Clemson, is for Communists and cultists. Little more. At $2 million per year, no less.
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All-TigerNet [13549]
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Re: 1 team out of 14, LOL. You didn't answer my question about Thomas Austin either
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Dec 11, 2023, 9:09 AM
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Look in the mirror...
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Orange Blooded [2889]
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Re: Stark Raving Brad - Dear JackOrange
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Dec 11, 2023, 9:06 AM
[ in reply to Re: Stark Raving Brad - Dear JackOrange ] |
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Did you see anything to comment about from the TCU game? The history lesson about the prior 13 years is pretty much old news that only a few like JK would attempt to argue about with their own well travelled excuses.
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All-In [30841]
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here's the thing .. and there is only 1
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Dec 11, 2023, 9:00 AM
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this is Clemson's team.. these are the coaches. That is confirmed. YOU can support them or not.
Me ????
I'll support them. The time for firing coaches will come but this .... this is the time to support.
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Orange Blooded [4059]
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While I appreciate the response, Mike, you try to justify the sniping
Dec 11, 2023, 9:03 AM
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It is both sides, not just you. And it has been a generally tough decade and a half. When firing season rolls around, I have been vocal myself over the years. Spring is the time to do that. I think most on here simply want a timeout until the season’s over.
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Standout [340]
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Again, thank you for your measured post.
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Dec 11, 2023, 9:17 AM
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Actually, my intent is not to "justify" the sniping, per se. Though it is unfortunately required in the times.
Because, for years now we've entrusted proper action to the Athletic Department once seasons have come and gone.
And yet, here we stand.
And let's be real: one major reason for our current and past situation is but for Boosters like Judge Keller and Mountaineers. There is clearly "money" that has supported the Coach, as well as the good tidings of Mr. Swinney.
So there's absolutely no reason why I should trust that this year's ending will be any different. Indeed, your own missive previously suggested that THIS YEAR will set the tone for the future of Clemson Basketball.
Nothing personal, but I think that is, indeed, nothing less than an abomination. A sin even.
Answer my question on Thomas Austin appropriately. If you can, then there is hope.
Otherwise, I don't care whether anyone "enjoys" the basketball season or not. It's irrelevant to those with proper empathy.
jackorange®
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All-In [30461]
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Well nothing is changing during the season
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Dec 11, 2023, 9:05 AM
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We just have to hike year 14 is the turning point and that if this season is successful we don’t crash and burn for the 2-3 subsequent years.
So enjoy the wins for now and how solid this team is.
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Standout [340]
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if the season ended now, 65% of the team's scoring would be leaving
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Dec 11, 2023, 9:19 AM
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you sure that's the stance you want to take?
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All-In [30461]
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You misunderstand
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Dec 11, 2023, 9:24 AM
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I’ve wanted brown elk gone for years. I do not think he is capable of building a consistent winning basketball program and he’s done nothing but prove it. But he’s not gonna be gone after this year and based on the way things are going, he’s not gonna be gone at all. This team will do reasonably well he’ll get a big fat contract extension and then in the next two or three years will probably suck. That’s the way he operates and that’s been consistent throughout his entire career here. But I’m going to enjoy the wins right now because they are so seldom .
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Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 73%
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well, color us different, I guess
Dec 11, 2023, 10:12 AM
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he rips Clemson off for several Mil per year, and so I choose not to celebrate with him. I can tip my cap to the players without supporting Brownell. So that's how I choose to deal with it.
Enjoy...
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All-In [30841]
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Athletic Dir [892]
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Re: Well nothing is changing during the season
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Dec 11, 2023, 1:03 PM
[ in reply to Well nothing is changing during the season ] |
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Hopefully winning breeds success. And having talented players has paid off in the form of helping along underclassmen. Can't help but think of Scheiflien playing with Hunter Tyson and how he's become a rebounding force. Tyson played with Simms. All three of these guys could do a little bit of everything. The team obviously loses a lot next year. One of the best incoming classes of the decade but we also haven't seen freshmen make the sort of desired impact we all want under Brownell.
Still way off but I am concerned about the lack of a center going into next year.
I'm a little concerned that if this team made a Final 4 run. We have generational type talent in Hall and Girard. Expectations for next year's team (at this point) would top out at simply making the post season of any kind. But in between these two seasons are locking ourselves in to another 5 or 6 year contract extension for coach? And comfortable with that? It's dicey.
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Orange Blooded [3141]
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I've got to ask
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Dec 11, 2023, 9:48 AM
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Are you the dad of a walk-on that was trespassed on campus a year or two ago?
I'm not a Brad fan, I would have made a change years ago. But you seem to have a vendetta.
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Standout [340]
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This morning I answered a post from JackOrange who was asking for a ceasefire
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Dec 11, 2023, 10:23 AM
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of sorts. I simply responded with Facts. Facts that specifically argued against Brownell even getting this 1 extra year, NCAAT or not.
How is that a vendetta?
It's a position based on facts.
What part of the problem is that the Board as a Populace desires uniformity - opinions that don't range too far the norm. People get on here and legitimately get angry because someone has an opinion that requires adjustment to their "state of reality" - the opinions that have already been agreed to.
"We're supporting Brownell for another year? But it's just a year - for now. OK. Good, got it."
Someone argues against that social contract of "opinion agreement", and people ridiculously believe it's a threat to their own bank of opinions and intelligence. This is where Society and Social Media go sadly wrong, and extremely so.
I can't help the lemmings on here. If Society doesn't have enough room for debate over facts, then society is rightfully doomed anyway.
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CU Medallion [57190]
TigerPulse: 100%
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But you didnt answer his question.
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Dec 11, 2023, 12:39 PM
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Are you the dad of a walk-on that was trespassed on campus a year or two ago?
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Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 73%
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they haven't been right about anything else....
Dec 11, 2023, 12:42 PM
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anything.
why would you think they would be right about anything else?
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Athletic Dir [892]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: This morning I answered a post from JackOrange who was asking for a ceasefire
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Dec 11, 2023, 12:53 PM
[ in reply to This morning I answered a post from JackOrange who was asking for a ceasefire ] |
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Someone argues against that social contract of "opinion agreement", and people ridiculously believe it's a threat to their own bank of opinions and intelligence. This is where Society and Social Media go sadly wrong, and extremely so.
Cant argue with that one, lol. We see this everyday now. Definitely to the extreme on message boards.
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CU Medallion [61873]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 12/16/01
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TL; DR***
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Dec 11, 2023, 12:42 PM
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