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CU Guru [1101]
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Matthew, Mark. Luke, and John.
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Mar 24, 2024, 8:15 PM
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They all either wrote down what Jesus said as he spoke, or noted what he did or what happened to him as they personally witnessed it. Either that or God told them what to write.
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CU Guru [1101]
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Re: Matthew, Mark. Luke, and John.
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Mar 24, 2024, 8:48 PM
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Those are two possible options, sure.
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CU Medallion [58755]
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Re: Matthew, Mark. Luke, and John.
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Mar 24, 2024, 11:37 PM
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Just about anything is possible. I hope you know I was being fecetious in my response above.
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CU Guru [1101]
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Re: Matthew, Mark. Luke, and John.
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Mar 25, 2024, 8:24 AM
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Oh, I'm aware
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Hall of Famer [24539]
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Re: Matthew, Mark. Luke, and John.
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Mar 25, 2024, 12:24 AM
[ in reply to Matthew, Mark. Luke, and John. ] |
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John Lennon wrote the book of John in 1968. Everyone knows this at this point.
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CU Medallion [58755]
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Seriously, great video. I've heard, and probably posted before, clips
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Mar 24, 2024, 11:36 PM
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saying that there were no eyewitness accounts of Jesus in the Bible.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Seriously, great video. I've heard, and probably posted before, clips
Mar 31, 2024, 9:55 AM
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It is by design. Many cultures over thousands of years have attempted to erase Jesus from history because he did and still does hold that kind of power of influence. How do you cover up the life of the most powerful man who ever walked the face of the earth? You rename all of the days, dates, calendars, implement your own names, dates, events and records in its place and destroy his. Thank you Babylonians, , Julius Caesar. Augustus, Octavius, Vatican, Venus, Mars Mon, Tues, and finally Sunday for not keeping the Sabbath Holy.
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CU Guru [1101]
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Re: Seriously, great video. I've heard, and probably posted before, clips
Mar 31, 2024, 10:12 AM
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You kind of glossed over the main point there. Lack of eyewitness testimony != a cover up.
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All-In [30028]
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Re: Who really wrote the gospels?
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Mar 25, 2024, 3:50 AM
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Good video. I learned quite a lot in 20 mins.
The most interesting part to me actually the very final part...why do they even have names at all?
For instance, we access information all the time without the need for authorship. When I need to fix something, I just go on YouTube and find a video. I don't really care who made it, I just want the information.
So to give them names at all does seem to be an appeal to either authenticity, or credibility. And one only needs credibility if one is being challenged, perhaps by another source, apocryphal or even heretical.
It's easy to forget that we are reading a very select set of works that have been chosen for us in the Bible. They may be highly accurate, or they may be inaccurate, but they are chosen, to the exclusion of other works, by someone, or some group. I haven't had time to get into Gnosticism or other early sects yet, but it was a long hard 300+ year fight to hone the message between communities and churches who just saw things differently.
Not all of those differences are radical, but even today, look how many denominations we have, and even some huge divides over important theological issues like faith vs. works, or purgatory, or relics, etc. I used to have a lot of fun debates with a guy whose favorite saying was "There's only one true church, and it didn't start with Martin Luther," lol. And that's not even touching on how the Muslim world sees Jesus, either.
What I find as interesting as who specifically may have written the gospels, is the slight differences between them, and what that might indicate about who they were written FOR, or about the community, rather than the person, who used and circulated them.
I've said elsewhere that to me, Mark feels like simplified version of Matt, or Matt an expanded version of Mark...I can't tell which. Luke feels different enough to be stand alone, and John is just a whole other beast all together, having a philosophical and 'Greek' feel to it far beyond the other 3 gospels.
I thought the video did a nice job of researching the history of WHY it's thought that the authors are who they are, calling back to some pretty obscure, but pretty important church fathers that aren't very common knowledge today. Those guys are important, because as the video showed, it's as much because of them, as the gospels themselves, that we see gospels in the light we do. They were the ones largely deciding what was 'legit', or not...for good or bad. A nice find.
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Oculus Spirit [94328]
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God's Holy Spirit.***
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Mar 25, 2024, 3:57 AM
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CU Guru [1101]
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Re: God's Holy Spirit.***
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Mar 25, 2024, 6:40 AM
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And the evidence for that is… some dudes said so.
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CU Medallion [58755]
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Oculus Spirit [94328]
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The KJB the rest aren't God's Word but I approve them because they...
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Mar 25, 2024, 8:27 AM
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contain God's Word.
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CU Medallion [58755]
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What makes you think the KJ is actually God's word, and the others aren't?
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Mar 25, 2024, 9:21 AM
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And how do you explain contradictions, inconsistencies, and errors? Or do you choose to ignore them?
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Oculus Spirit [94328]
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Re: What makes you think the KJ is actually God's word, and the others aren't?
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Mar 25, 2024, 2:27 PM
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The KJ translators used every bit of information previously known to man to form the KJB. That includes ~ half a dozen previous translations along with the ancient scrolls and documents.
You understand the concept of man-hours? If two guys spend 10 hours painting a house it's said to have taken 20 man hours (m-h) to paint that house. The estimates of the time spent on the KJB is 350 (m-y), that 350 man years.
The qualifications of those scholars are beyond those of anyone living previously or since. After 30 years of avoiding reading anything about the Bible I decided to read a few books on the translators to look into their credentials, histories and lives.
Some interesting facts about them. To be included in the text each word had to be approved by each of the members in one of the several subgroups. Their work went to other subgroups for oversight. If any words or phrases were deemed necessary some additions might be included but all additions were italicized.
One of those scholars was reading, writing and speaking fluent latin before he reached the age of 7 yo. All were scholars and most were ministers which were head of colleges at one time or another in their lives. The central focus of the lives of each of them was education. All spoke at least two of the three languages require to do the work. Latin, Hebrew and Greek were their passions.
As far as the other questions how about laying them out with examples, FROM THE KJB, and I'll provided what I know satisfies me. I give no guarantee that anything I will say will satisfy you. Frankly, I don't respond to you for your benefit but that a younger in the Lord than me might read your words and get confused.
Shoot!
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CU Guru [1101]
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Re: What makes you think the KJ is actually God's word, and the others aren't?
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Mar 25, 2024, 2:32 PM
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You make some great points, man really did spend a lot of time writing/translating the bible.
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CU Guru [1101]
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Orange Blooded [2200]
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Re: Who really wrote the gospels?
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Mar 26, 2024, 6:36 AM
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I’ve studied a lot into this particular part of Christianity. For some reason the formation of the text was always intriguing to me.
Something I learned new from this was that Papias was not particularly trusted.
However, I do find it interesting that the gospels were attributed to who they were….
Matthew was a tax collector and not really a prominent disciple. Mark abandoned the disciples, and Luke was nobody when it came to Jesus.
Why attribute the gospels to those 3?
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All-In [30028]
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Re: Who really wrote the gospels?
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Mar 26, 2024, 11:03 AM
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That's a good point. If one were going to "make something up," and I'm not saying they did, wouldn't you attribute the works to someone with some real 'umph," and not a universally hated tax collector?
Those are the kinds of things that give parts of the Bible real credibility to me. Every case is different, but I always ask, "why this instead of that?" Why say "I was nearly stoned to death in Lystra as they were throwing me out the door, when I could say "They welcomed me in like a king and I converted 10,000 people that day."
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Orange Blooded [2200]
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Re: Who really wrote the gospels?
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Mar 26, 2024, 11:48 AM
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Exactly and there are a lot of embarrassing things that could have been left out and that is one thing scholars use to determine authenticity.
Like the disciples being confused by Jesus’ teaching, Peter denying Jesus, his family not wanting anything to do with him, etc…
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CU Guru [1101]
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Re: Who really wrote the gospels?
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Mar 26, 2024, 11:54 AM
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>Exactly and there are a lot of embarrassing things that could have been left out and that is one thing scholars use to determine authenticity.
While true, the criterion of embarrassment isn't used nearly as often as apologists would have you believe, and it's rarely used in isolation.
>Like the disciples being confused by Jesus’ teaching, Peter denying Jesus, his family not wanting anything to do with him, etc…
I agree, I think this points to the fact that the historical Jesus really did exist and we have a least some of his actual sayings/actions.
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