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Lot o points [156738]
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Maybe it’s been mentioned, but what’s missing in the Trump
Oct 8, 2019, 8:25 AM
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Debate is that the US is working exactly how our brilliant founders intended, and God bless em for it.
Elect an inelegant oaf who loves power a bit to much? Our system keeps em in check.
Elect smarmy congresspeople who will stop at nothing to get their way? Our system keeps em in check.
Elect people who want socialism or aren’t progressive enough? Our system gives them the voice they need or stymies their desires, as needed.
All this current dysfunction we have going? It’s the system WORKING. Our founders wouldn’t be rolling over in their graves, they’d be high giving themselves over it.
We could elect 5 Trumps or Obama’s or 20 McConnells or Schiffs and our country will endure.
The only real dangers we face, IMHO, are our national debt and any changes that fundamentally alter our system of govt (abolishing the electoral college, anyone) because if I didn’t mention it yet, our system flat out WORKS.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: Maybe it’s been mentioned, but what’s missing in the Trump
Oct 8, 2019, 8:47 AM
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A lot of truth in the post, the Republic can survive the fools and scalawags as long as we remain within the original ideas of the Constitution.
Our debt is a huge issue but it also masks the fact that without it we would see the idea of a vast middle class as folly. Our collective debt, be it on a Nation or personal level allows us to believe we hold a vast middle class. In truth what is considered to be middle class by numbers used to determine that status are actually working poor for a lot of them. Remove the ability to assume debt and that becomes clear rather quickly in fact.
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All-In [42605]
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I, for the most part, agree...
Oct 8, 2019, 9:28 AM
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But I'm seeing cracks in the system.
Our nation has ceded too much power to the executive branch over the last several decades, far more than our founding fathers wanted. One of the worst moments in this came with #### Cheney's interpretation's of executive powers. This has paved the way for Obama and Trump's abuses.
I do believe the system will work, and I keep telling myself to trust the long game. But we've also seen Trump step over the line with his authority far too many times, even before Ukraine, and nothing has been done. How he's gotten away with the emoluments abuses is absolutely stunning. Could you imagine if Obama, Bush, or Clinton had done this?
But yeah, I'm still putting faith in the system. I do believe he's out of here no later than January 2021. Hopefully earlier.
As MLK Jr. said, "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice."
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: I, for the most part, agree...
Oct 8, 2019, 9:32 AM
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One thing that assuredly needs to go away is the use of EO's . Simply put when Congress is taken out of the equation it violates the seperation of powers and it does nothing to codify a thing. An EO can be struck down by the next Oval Office resident with the stroke of a pen.
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All-In [42605]
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Re: I, for the most part, agree...
Oct 8, 2019, 9:42 AM
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Agreed. I'd like to see them banned completely, and then let Congress redefine what they can be if anything at all.
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Heisman Winner [138844]
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How many nations and empires were certain
Oct 8, 2019, 9:31 AM
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they were the greatest, most eternal, most infallible ever, that we only ready about in history books?
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Lot o points [156738]
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Man, I didn't use nor imply any of those descriptors.
Oct 8, 2019, 9:34 AM
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And thankfully, many, if not most, of our founders were students of those history books.
Could something come down the pipe and completely screw us up? Oh yeah. But to presume that oafs and charlatans and power hungry weasels and back stabbers were foreign concepts in the 1700's is just silly.
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CU Medallion [54759]
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*pike***
Oct 8, 2019, 10:28 AM
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Lot o points [156738]
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Grrrr, autocorrect got me. Nice pull.***
Oct 8, 2019, 3:46 PM
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All-In [27403]
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Oculus Spirit [94340]
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All-In [49396]
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I think it would work mo betta without gerrymandering.
Oct 8, 2019, 9:33 AM
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It pushes candidates further right or left and eliminates them being forced to consider a broader spectrum of their electorate and taking more moderate positions. Leads to the polarized Congress we have these days.
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Oculus Spirit [94340]
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Fixing gerrymandering is gerrymandering.
Oct 8, 2019, 9:56 AM
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You're talking about a perfectly unpolitical revamping of the entire map. I don't think that's possible.
No one wants to leave it as it is because of the loss of opportunity cost which disallows them gaining advantage.
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110%er [9127]
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not sure about this part
Oct 8, 2019, 9:34 AM
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"exactly how our brilliant founders intended"
i dont think they gave the POTUS the power to sign CRs or make war
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Lot o points [156738]
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You're micro man, I was macro.***
Oct 8, 2019, 9:35 AM
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110%er [9127]
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i dont think they intended that the federal gubmint
Oct 8, 2019, 9:42 AM
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have so much power over the states either
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: i dont think they intended that the federal gubmint
Oct 8, 2019, 9:50 AM
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Simply put one cannot have far different standards for things such as marriage, education, commerce, personal rights be legislated by a single State or group of States that does not conform to a National standard. If one allows 50 different rulings on big issues that do not convey across the borders of said State the whole thing falls apart.
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110%er [9127]
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i dont remember National Standard being mentioned
Oct 8, 2019, 9:55 AM
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anywhere
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110%er [9127]
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if the original 13 had a chance to vote again
Oct 8, 2019, 10:00 AM
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Oculus Spirit [94340]
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All-In [47961]
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CU Medallion [56414]
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This isn't an example of the system working.
Oct 8, 2019, 9:59 AM
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If anything it's an example of how slowly the machinery of the government typically moves and that has very little to do with the Founders.
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110%er [9127]
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slow is beautiful
Oct 8, 2019, 10:35 AM
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not sure why anyone would want them to be in charge of their bypass surgery
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Oculus Spirit [94340]
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Re: Part of that issue is the growth of federal power...
Oct 8, 2019, 4:22 PM
[ in reply to This isn't an example of the system working. ] |
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extending to things that states should be left to handle. The other major factor is congress feeling like they are so obligated to dally in everyone lives they consider it full time work.
Originally, Congressfolk worked for a living instead of politicking year round. Seems like it started with summer session which allowed farming congressfolk to be home during planting and harvesting seasons.
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Lot o points [156738]
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Go spend some time in a dictatorship.....
Oct 8, 2019, 6:40 PM
[ in reply to This isn't an example of the system working. ] |
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enjoy watching how quickly the wishes of those in power get implemented, and you may get a little more appreciation for the founders.
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Heisman Winner [112483]
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"The system works"
Oct 8, 2019, 12:14 PM
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Right, Mitch McConnell would get a good laugh out of that.
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Lot o points [156738]
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Sorry, I forgot how oppressed you were.***
Oct 8, 2019, 6:41 PM
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All-In [40397]
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I’ve actually said this before
Oct 8, 2019, 4:09 PM
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The Trump experiment is like living in a real live civics class.
We saw the EC do its thing We have impeachment discussions and the like We have special counselors and investigations
It’s actually quite fascinating to see and hear some of the legal and precedent type reasons for people doing and not doing anything about some of these topics.
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Oculus Spirit [94340]
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My son entered law school, we watch Dershwitz and...
Oct 8, 2019, 4:33 PM
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have discussions about each episode of Impeach Trump. This echos the days when we were consumed with baseball fundamentals and fishing techniques.
It's been a blast. I wouldn't have it any other way. He and I have a deal, we take turns being the dems and I use some of the points I get here to prosecute the POTUS. It's stressful at times. Real life entertainment can do that.
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All-In [25202]
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interesting perspective
Oct 9, 2019, 1:36 AM
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And you're right that it's wrong to say the founders would be rolling in their graves.
As if they didn't have severe political disagreements and debates back then.
Probably even more extreme then since our system was new and the future was extremely uncertain, nobody could be sure of the right path.
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Replies: 29
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